Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Help & tips > Family matters/health  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 22.10.2021, 06:02
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Basel
Posts: 30
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 7 Times in 4 Posts
obli has no particular reputation at present
divorce & separation - opinions

Hi all,

My wife and I have come to a point where we both agree that we cant proceed.
We have no children nor assets acquired during the marriage. I am a permit B holder and she has a permit B family reunion.

She does not come from EU.

She is waiting for a reply from an interview for a job to see if she got the job or not.

So the situation: she said if she will get the job, she would not mutually apply for a divorce, since this process would revoke her permit in 3 months or so. So her intentions then would be to not file for a divorce mutually, and continue to still live together in one apartment.

My understanding is that I dont have much to say here. I want a divorce, but if its not mutual its still 2 years living separately. And in my understanding "separately" also means in 1 apartment as long as nuances like life/communication/even food are separate (also have to prove it somehow).

We have been married for 6 months and it simply is not working out. By law when we married I took upon myself to provide everything. From what I've read we cant live separately in 2 apartments during our first 5 years of marriage or it will be considered "fake". So it seems we are forced to live under one roof. I hope I'm wrong on this one, sounds crazy - things must work out or its fake? wtf...

Do i have any wiggle room here? I am seeing a lawyer next week, but would like to hear some opinions/experiences to get my expectations in order.

BR
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 22.10.2021, 07:36
NotAllThere's Avatar
Modulo 2
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Baselland
Posts: 14,195
Groaned at 256 Times in 224 Posts
Thanked 21,071 Times in 8,558 Posts
NotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond repute
Re: divorce & separation - opinions

It seems to me that you can't claim that you're living separately under one roof and at the same time claim that the marriage is genuine.

I suggest you try to work it out - there are organisations that can help with marriage counselling. Probably cheaper than a lawyer as well.
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users would like to thank NotAllThere for this useful post:
  #3  
Old 22.10.2021, 07:46
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Zurich
Posts: 13,579
Groaned at 1,255 Times in 836 Posts
Thanked 19,868 Times in 7,663 Posts
Chuff has a reputation beyond reputeChuff has a reputation beyond reputeChuff has a reputation beyond reputeChuff has a reputation beyond reputeChuff has a reputation beyond reputeChuff has a reputation beyond repute
Re: divorce & separation - opinions

Quote:
View Post
Hi all,

My wife and I have come to a point where we both agree that we cant proceed.
We have no children nor assets acquired during the marriage. I am a permit B holder and she has a permit B family reunion.

She does not come from EU.

She is waiting for a reply from an interview for a job to see if she got the job or not.

So the situation: she said if she will get the job, she would not mutually apply for a divorce, since this process would revoke her permit in 3 months or so. So her intentions then would be to not file for a divorce mutually, and continue to still live together in one apartment.

My understanding is that I dont have much to say here. I want a divorce, but if its not mutual its still 2 years living separately. And in my understanding "separately" also means in 1 apartment as long as nuances like life/communication/even food are separate (also have to prove it somehow).

We have been married for 6 months and it simply is not working out. By law when we married I took upon myself to provide everything. From what I've read we cant live separately in 2 apartments during our first 5 years of marriage or it will be considered "fake". So it seems we are forced to live under one roof. I hope I'm wrong on this one, sounds crazy - things must work out or its fake? wtf...

Do i have any wiggle room here? I am seeing a lawyer next week, but would like to hear some opinions/experiences to get my expectations in order.

BR
Maybe I am missing something here, but if you no longer want to be married to, or live with this person, then why do you care if the marriage is considered fake? Wouldn't it affect only her permit and not yours?

If you have been married to her for such a short time as 6 months, then if I were you I would be looking to get divorced as quickly and amicably as possible and then getting on with my life. If her permit is revoked and she has to leave then that is of course sad for her, but it's not your "problem", it's just a consequence of the divorce.

Living under the same roof of someone that you are divorcing and are not happy with is psychologically damaging, and your relationship is only going to get worse as the separation proceeds, so if I were you I would start making some tough decisions and aiming to separate and distance myself from this person, including by looking to live separately as soon as possible.

In summary, I don't see how it is in your best interests to do what she is proposing here unless you are still really good friends and you feel you owe her a chance to stay and work in Switzerland. Otherwise, she needs to now look to support herself without your help.
Reply With Quote
The following 12 users would like to thank Chuff for this useful post:
  #4  
Old 22.10.2021, 09:33
Jim2007's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Kt. Bern
Posts: 4,693
Groaned at 231 Times in 182 Posts
Thanked 7,724 Times in 3,411 Posts
Jim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: divorce & separation - opinions

Quote:
View Post
If you have been married to her for such a short time as 6 months, then if I were you I would be looking to get divorced as quickly and amicably as possible and then getting on with my life. If her permit is revoked and she has to leave then that is of course sad for her, but it's not your "problem", it's just a consequence of the divorce.
It could very quickly become his problem, even if the OP holds an EU B permit. Facilitating a sham marriage is a serious matter and with a marriage of six months and a disgruntled ex wife I’d be very cautious about tell the OP it is not his problem.
Reply With Quote
The following 5 users would like to thank Jim2007 for this useful post:
  #5  
Old 22.10.2021, 10:00
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2021
Location: Geneva
Posts: 294
Groaned at 45 Times in 22 Posts
Thanked 291 Times in 153 Posts
Biro has no particular reputation at present
Re: divorce & separation - opinions

Quote:
View Post
Hi all,

My wife and I have come to a point where we both agree that we cant proceed.
We have no children nor assets acquired during the marriage. I am a permit B holder and she has a permit B family reunion.

She does not come from EU.

She is waiting for a reply from an interview for a job to see if she got the job or not.

So the situation: she said if she will get the job, she would not mutually apply for a divorce, since this process would revoke her permit in 3 months or so. So her intentions then would be to not file for a divorce mutually, and continue to still live together in one apartment.

My understanding is that I dont have much to say here. I want a divorce, but if its not mutual its still 2 years living separately. And in my understanding "separately" also means in 1 apartment as long as nuances like life/communication/even food are separate (also have to prove it somehow).

We have been married for 6 months and it simply is not working out. By law when we married I took upon myself to provide everything. From what I've read we cant live separately in 2 apartments during our first 5 years of marriage or it will be considered "fake". So it seems we are forced to live under one roof. I hope I'm wrong on this one, sounds crazy - things must work out or its fake? wtf...

Do i have any wiggle room here? I am seeing a lawyer next week, but would like to hear some opinions/experiences to get my expectations in order.

BR

It was all very clear before you signed along the dotted line, maybe you should have read what was given to you !
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Biro for this useful post:
The following 4 users groan at Biro for this post:
  #6  
Old 22.10.2021, 10:06
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Zurich
Posts: 13,579
Groaned at 1,255 Times in 836 Posts
Thanked 19,868 Times in 7,663 Posts
Chuff has a reputation beyond reputeChuff has a reputation beyond reputeChuff has a reputation beyond reputeChuff has a reputation beyond reputeChuff has a reputation beyond reputeChuff has a reputation beyond repute
Re: divorce & separation - opinions

Quote:
View Post
It could very quickly become his problem, even if the OP holds an EU B permit. Facilitating a sham marriage is a serious matter and with a marriage of six months and a disgruntled ex wife I’d be very cautious about tell the OP it is not his problem.
Many marriages break down within 5 years and if he can be seen to separate himself from the topic of his wife's residency status, and not do anything to influence what happens to her permit and if necessary allow it to be revoked, then I do not see how it would reflect too badly on him.

I would really try to avoid, whenever possible, living with someone that I did not want to be married to or live with any more just for the sake of their permit. That kind of thing really affects happiness and mental health.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank Chuff for this useful post:
  #7  
Old 22.10.2021, 10:15
olygirl's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: d' Innerschwiiz
Posts: 7,523
Groaned at 408 Times in 272 Posts
Thanked 17,687 Times in 5,460 Posts
olygirl has a reputation beyond reputeolygirl has a reputation beyond reputeolygirl has a reputation beyond reputeolygirl has a reputation beyond reputeolygirl has a reputation beyond reputeolygirl has a reputation beyond repute
Re: divorce & separation - opinions

There are so many sides to this coin:

1) Living in an unhappy marriage for five years can be detrimental to mental health. Can you live together without driving each other nuts?

2) Ending the marriage now will force her to return. Is that really a bad thing? Could living in Switzerland have been a motivating factor for the marriage?

This situation certainly isn't unique and every decision you make will have consequences. Good luck.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank olygirl for this useful post:
  #8  
Old 22.10.2021, 10:44
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: Zurich
Posts: 90
Groaned at 20 Times in 15 Posts
Thanked 62 Times in 32 Posts
kerneltrick has become a little unpopular
Re: divorce & separation - opinions

Quote:
View Post
We have no children nor assets acquired during the marriage
Unless you've signed a marriage contract that declared your property regime to be Gütertrennung, sure you did - you wife has dibs on half of all income and pillar 2 contribution you made and continue to be making.Dump her asap. If and how she's going to stay in CH is her problem, not yours.
Reply With Quote
The following 5 users would like to thank kerneltrick for this useful post:
This user groans at kerneltrick for this post:
  #9  
Old 22.10.2021, 10:57
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Zurich
Posts: 13,579
Groaned at 1,255 Times in 836 Posts
Thanked 19,868 Times in 7,663 Posts
Chuff has a reputation beyond reputeChuff has a reputation beyond reputeChuff has a reputation beyond reputeChuff has a reputation beyond reputeChuff has a reputation beyond reputeChuff has a reputation beyond repute
Re: divorce & separation - opinions

Quote:
View Post
Unless you've signed a marriage contract that declared your property regime to be Gütertrennung, sure you did - you wife has dibs on half of all income and pillar 2 contribution you made and continue to be making.Dump her asap. If and how she's going to stay in CH is her problem, not yours.
Harsh, but fair.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank Chuff for this useful post:
  #10  
Old 22.10.2021, 11:12
Medea Fleecestealer's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 22,447
Groaned at 418 Times in 321 Posts
Thanked 17,493 Times in 9,809 Posts
Medea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond repute
Re: divorce & separation - opinions

Quote:
View Post
Hi all,

My wife and I have come to a point where we both agree that we cant proceed.
We have no children nor assets acquired during the marriage. I am a permit B holder and she has a permit B family reunion.

She does not come from EU.

She is waiting for a reply from an interview for a job to see if she got the job or not.

So the situation: she said if she will get the job, she would not mutually apply for a divorce, since this process would revoke her permit in 3 months or so. So her intentions then would be to not file for a divorce mutually, and continue to still live together in one apartment.

My understanding is that I dont have much to say here. I want a divorce, but if its not mutual its still 2 years living separately. And in my understanding "separately" also means in 1 apartment as long as nuances like life/communication/even food are separate (also have to prove it somehow).

We have been married for 6 months and it simply is not working out. By law when we married I took upon myself to provide everything. From what I've read we cant live separately in 2 apartments during our first 5 years of marriage or it will be considered "fake". So it seems we are forced to live under one roof. I hope I'm wrong on this one, sounds crazy - things must work out or its fake? wtf...

Do i have any wiggle room here? I am seeing a lawyer next week, but would like to hear some opinions/experiences to get my expectations in order.

BR
Seems to me the marriage is already "fake" as far as she's concerned. She needs to understand that, even if she gets the job, her permit would be reviewed once a divorce happens; it doesn't matter how long it's been since she got the job.

And I doubt the authorities will consider you living separately in the same accommodation. One of you needs to move out.

As others have said, her permit problems are not yours. Do what you need to do to end the marriage asap and let her sort her own problems out.

This for some financial info:

https://www.ch.ch/en/matrimonial-regime/
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 22.10.2021, 12:46
Jeep Life's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: French Part of CH
Posts: 287
Groaned at 4 Times in 4 Posts
Thanked 327 Times in 162 Posts
Jeep Life is considered knowledgeableJeep Life is considered knowledgeableJeep Life is considered knowledgeable
Re: divorce & separation - opinions

Quote:
View Post
Unless you've signed a marriage contract that declared your property regime to be Gütertrennung, sure you did - you wife has dibs on half of all income and pillar 2 contribution you made and continue to be making.Dump her asap. If and how she's going to stay in CH is her problem, not yours.
Only the contributions made and property acquired during the 6 months/duration of marriage. Also inherited property cannot be claimed by the spouse.
Reply With Quote
The following 10 users would like to thank Jeep Life for this useful post:
  #12  
Old 22.10.2021, 12:49
st2lemans's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Lugano
Posts: 32,082
Groaned at 2,417 Times in 1,758 Posts
Thanked 39,088 Times in 18,432 Posts
st2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond repute
Re: divorce & separation - opinions

Quote:
View Post
Only the contributions made and property acquired during the 6 months/duration of marriage. Also inherited property cannot be claimed by the spouse.
And those that will be made before the divorce is finalized.

Tom
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users would like to thank st2lemans for this useful post:
This user groans at st2lemans for this post:
  #13  
Old 22.10.2021, 13:16
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: Zurich
Posts: 90
Groaned at 20 Times in 15 Posts
Thanked 62 Times in 32 Posts
kerneltrick has become a little unpopular
Re: divorce & separation - opinions

Quote:
View Post
Only the contributions made and property acquired during the 6 months/duration of marriage. Also inherited property cannot be claimed by the spouse.
Yes, exactly. I didn't say anything about prior wealth, that's separate of course. Only income/contributions after the point of marriage. So assuming, say, EF poverty wage threshold of 120k, he's already like 60 grand in debt to wife. And the number is only going to get bigger until he pulls the trigger with divorce/separation. Wait for 2 more years in this sham marriage state, wife just gets to milk 1+ more years of wages out of him with no guarantees whatsoever of a fast divorce by mutual agreement at the end of it. There's no point in waiting and entertaining her residence permit

Last edited by kerneltrick; 22.10.2021 at 13:27.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users groan at kerneltrick for this post:
  #14  
Old 22.10.2021, 13:28
st2lemans's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Lugano
Posts: 32,082
Groaned at 2,417 Times in 1,758 Posts
Thanked 39,088 Times in 18,432 Posts
st2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond repute
Re: divorce & separation - opinions

Not if they spend it all.

It's 50% of what's left, not gross earnings.

And he also gets 50% of hers.

Tom
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank st2lemans for this useful post:
  #15  
Old 22.10.2021, 13:30
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: Zurich
Posts: 90
Groaned at 20 Times in 15 Posts
Thanked 62 Times in 32 Posts
kerneltrick has become a little unpopular
Re: divorce & separation - opinions

Quote:
View Post
And he also gets 50% of hers.
50% of zero is zero. Wife got a much better deal out of him here. Good at least that no children were involved or he'd be a walking ATM to wife for decades
Reply With Quote
This user groans at kerneltrick for this post:
  #16  
Old 22.10.2021, 13:39
st2lemans's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Lugano
Posts: 32,082
Groaned at 2,417 Times in 1,758 Posts
Thanked 39,088 Times in 18,432 Posts
st2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond repute
Re: divorce & separation - opinions

Quote:
View Post
50% of zero is zero. Wife got a much better deal out of him here. Good at least that no children were involved or he'd be a walking ATM to wife for decades
She's getting a job, so it won't be zero.

Anyway, if they separate, her permit is history, no need to wait until the divorce.

Tom
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 22.10.2021, 15:14
Jim2007's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Kt. Bern
Posts: 4,693
Groaned at 231 Times in 182 Posts
Thanked 7,724 Times in 3,411 Posts
Jim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond reputeJim2007 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: divorce & separation - opinions

Quote:
View Post
Many marriages break down within 5 years and if he can be seen to separate himself from the topic of his wife's residency status, and not do anything to influence what happens to her permit and if necessary allow it to be revoked, then I do not see how it would reflect too badly on him.

I would really try to avoid, whenever possible, living with someone that I did not want to be married to or live with any more just for the sake of their permit. That kind of thing really affects happiness and mental health.
I appreciate all that but the reality is all it would take is confirmation that it was in deed a fake marriage by a disgruntled ex-wife and he has a big problem. Don't underestimate a disgruntled person to make trouble.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 22.10.2021, 15:56
ipoddle's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: basel
Posts: 1,128
Groaned at 23 Times in 15 Posts
Thanked 1,125 Times in 460 Posts
ipoddle has a reputation beyond reputeipoddle has a reputation beyond reputeipoddle has a reputation beyond reputeipoddle has a reputation beyond repute
Re: divorce & separation - opinions

under normal circumstances, if one partner isn't willing to go straight to a mutual divorce they can stall the start proceedings for 2 years ( be grateful, it used to be 3)

but you can apply now for an official separation, at least that way you are legally considered single (and will pay tax as a singleton)

and you can both live wherever you want whenever you want, you don't normally 'have to' live at the same address

but.. in your case.. you have that danger of being held responsible for a 'sham' marriage

I think your only option is a lawyer to gauge the risks of moving out
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 22.10.2021, 16:05
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: SG
Posts: 9,510
Groaned at 500 Times in 371 Posts
Thanked 12,616 Times in 6,553 Posts
Urs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond reputeUrs Max has a reputation beyond repute
Re: divorce & separation - opinions

Quote:
View Post
My understanding is that I dont have much to say here. I want a divorce, but if its not mutual its still 2 years living separately.
And? She's obviously prioritising her own interests, that immediately removes all moral obligations for you to not do the same. Can you rule out with certainty that she's not using you just to get a residence permit? What if she reports you to the authorities claiming that it was all just a sham, just to take revenge on you?

Frankly, breaking the law by claiming the marriage is still funcitonal, and endangering one's own residence permit by doing so for someone who doesn't value you nor the deed is pretty much the thing that should be the furthest from your mind.

Now, going forward:
The longer the marriage has lasted the higher your obligation will be, and the alimony you'll be condemned to (if any), so the sooner you get officially separated/divorced the better.
It is in your own best interest if she has to leave the country. The alimony (if any) you'll be sentenced to will be heavily influenced by her cost-of-living, and that's most probably less elsewhere.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Urs Max for this useful post:
  #20  
Old 22.10.2021, 16:19
olygirl's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: d' Innerschwiiz
Posts: 7,523
Groaned at 408 Times in 272 Posts
Thanked 17,687 Times in 5,460 Posts
olygirl has a reputation beyond reputeolygirl has a reputation beyond reputeolygirl has a reputation beyond reputeolygirl has a reputation beyond reputeolygirl has a reputation beyond reputeolygirl has a reputation beyond repute
Re: divorce & separation - opinions

Quote:
View Post
And? She's obviously prioritising her own interests, that immediately removes all moral obligations for you to not do the same. Can you rule out with certainty that she's not using you just to get a residence permit?
There's nothing to support your statement that she's prioritising her own reasons.

Quote:
View Post
It is in your own best interest if she has to leave the country. The alimony (if any) you'll be sentenced to will be heavily influenced by her cost-of-living, and that's most probably less elsewhere.
You do not know if it's in his best interest for her to leave the country. You don't know why he married her in the first place. The OP may not want her to go back to her original country for various reasons.

The OP has not mentioned anything except that the marriage cannot proceed. Please deal with the facts or you may come across as a misogynist.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank olygirl for this useful post:
This user groans at olygirl for this post:
Reply




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Separation/divorce court boinker Family matters/health 10 04.12.2015 21:17
Separation / Divorce jrspet Family matters/health 1 16.04.2012 22:41
Life after Divorce / Separation olygirl Family matters/health 61 02.03.2012 16:13
Separation/Divorce momoko Permits/visas/government 23 07.02.2011 17:35
Separation/Divorce - am I unique? Filton Kingswood Family matters/health 54 10.05.2010 13:09


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 11:15.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0