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  #21  
Old 27.11.2011, 13:37
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Re: Midwives and Natural Childbirth- Zürich

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I also had no wish of episiotomy or assisted birth but if the doctor had stuck rigidly to my wishes, I wouldn't have my son today if she hadn't moved quickly to get him out when he was stuck.

Giving birth is a very dynamic event - things can change very quickly and sometimes you just have to go with the doctor's advice and be prepared for a different route to a safe outcome.

My episiotomy actually prevented me from tearing badly so I'm quite glad that the doctor stepped in.
For others it does the exact opposite and can cause long-term disability. I didn't want this to become a debate about the pros and cons of an episiotomy, ventouse or forceps delivery. Let's just say I've researched this thoroughly via literature and my best friend who is a physician as well as the experiences of friends and family. I refuse to have any of them. Final decision for me.

P.S. I'm glad your experience went well for you though and appreciate what you say about being prepared for a different route. =)
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Old 27.11.2011, 13:41
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Re: Midwives and Natural Childbirth- Zürich

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As ecb stated she would have to be be authorised to be beleghebamme, otherwise she wont have any authority at the hospital.

Have you visited a Birthing house? There is one in the vicinity of Zurich,
http://www.delphys.ch/
I would arrange a visit, it makes a world of difference, when you go there and experience the atmosphere yourself.
Remember, the worst scenario for a birthing house is a birth that has gone wrong, so they take 0%risk births. If they forsee a problem, they immediately arrange that you are transferred to the hospital.

My experience with my second daughter at the birthing house was amazing, it was my first delivery, my first daughter was a breech baby, and I opted for a C-section.

I was also afraid of an episiotomy, and that is the reason why I went to the birthing house. I just could not trust the doctors.

all the luck, isabella
I saw Delphys in another thread here. I'm looking into this too.

I can't thank all of you ladies enough for the advice and well wishes. Seriously. I feel more relaxed already to know I have options. I just want to sort it all soon as I'm already feeling like a failure coping (ahem..or trying..lol) with morning sickness for five months now. I pretty much never cry but after puking up last night's dinner I had a weepy pity party thinking about all I have to do.
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Old 27.11.2011, 13:44
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Re: Midwives and Natural Childbirth- Zürich

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I also had no wish of episiotomy or assisted birth but if the doctor had stuck rigidly to my wishes, I wouldn't have my son today if she hadn't moved quickly to get him out when he was stuck.

Giving birth is a very dynamic event - things can change very quickly and sometimes you just have to go with the doctor's advice and be prepared for a different route to a safe outcome.

My episiotomy actually prevented me from tearing badly so I'm quite glad that the doctor stepped in.

With my first birth, my contractions started 2 weeks before the planned Cesearan, I went into Hospital at about 10pm, the contractions were erractic and really not strong at all. The midwife did an internal exam and I was 0.5cm dialated. The doctor called the Chefartz, and they decided to perform the Ceseran, that night within the hour.
I refused, I knew this wasn't the right time, and I felt as though they were just happy to get over with it. The Gyne was upset, close to furious,(well she went really red) and I had to sign a forms to say that I take full responsibility ect. ect.
The contractions stopped a few hours later.

My experience with the average doctor is that they tend to lead with the fear factor. They look at you and assess the worst possible scenario, then they feed that to you, get you all confused and afraid. You take their advice, all goes well, because they interceded, and you are forever grateful.
You are not always the worst case scenario.
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Old 27.11.2011, 13:52
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Re: Midwives and Natural Childbirth- Zürich

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I saw Delphys in another thread here. I'm looking into this too.

I can't thank all of you ladies enough for the advice and well wishes. Seriously. I feel more relaxed already to know I have options. I just want to sort it all soon as I'm already feeling like a failure coping (ahem..or trying..lol) with morning sickness for five months now. I pretty much never cry but after puking up last night's dinner I had a weepy pity party thinking about all I have to do.

About the morning sickness, you poor thing, I had it for 5months as well, it never really went away, and because of the Cesarean it took another 5days after the op to subside.
In the second pregnancy homeopathy helped, it was over in the 12th week.
I used, Ipecacuanha. I would either go to a really good homeopath, I go to Maur, Mrs. Regula Fisch, speaks excellent English.
Or go to the Drogerie tomorrow, there are a few other remedies, it all depends on your symptoms.
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Old 27.11.2011, 13:57
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Re: Midwives and Natural Childbirth- Zürich

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My experience with the average doctor is that they tend to lead with the fear factor. They look at you and assess the worst possible scenario, then they feed that to you, get you all confused and afraid. You take their advice, all goes well, because they interceded, and you are forever grateful.
You are not always the worst case scenario.
I'm not really qualified to question a doctor in this case but even I know when they find that a baby is stuck in the birth canal for any length of time, that's something they have to deal with fairly quickly and not wait for the mum to have a quick scan through mumsnet.com for the general consensus of mummy-opinions.

The doctor explained it all to me later, probably because I'd shown my disappointment at an episiotomy, but the explanation made total sense to me. The baby's heart rate had gone nuts and he was obviously in distress so she had to get him out. I could tell that my strength had gone and I wasn't really doing anything to push him out and she had spotted this, too.

There was no panic coming from the doctor, it all went smoothly and was over and done long before the panic and fear would have set in.
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Old 27.11.2011, 14:06
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Re: Midwives and Natural Childbirth- Zürich

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I'm not really qualified to question a doctor in this case but even I know when they find that a baby is stuck in the birth canal for any length of time, that's something they have to deal with fairly quickly and not wait for the mum to have a quick scan through mumsnet.com for the general consensus of mummy-opinions.
I feel a bit patronized when you take my comments about research and then respond with some unrealistic scenario of me doing a google search for a mummy opinion during actual labor. That's not really a fair comment.

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The doctor explained it all to me later, probably because I'd shown my disappointment at an episiotomy, but the explanation made total sense to me. The baby's heart rate had gone nuts and he was obviously in distress so she had to get him out. I could tell that my strength had gone and I wasn't really doing anything to push him out and she had spotted this, too.

There was no panic coming from the doctor, it all went smoothly and was over and done long before the panic and fear would have set in.
Again, I'm glad your experience turned out positive with the interventions needed. I can see you're relieved they occurred. I don't doubt anything you say about your baby's heart rate or the fact your doctor decided it was necessary and you agreed.

I'm making a different choice though and like you, it's an educated one - not a perfect one, of course.
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Old 27.11.2011, 14:35
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Re: Midwives and Natural Childbirth- Zürich

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I feel a bit patronized when you take my comments about research and then respond with some unrealistic scenario of me doing a google search for a mummy opinion during actual labor. That's not really a fair comment.
It wasn't actually directed at anyone in particular (I didn't see your research on mumsnet - sorry) but I'm referring to a fine line between women in labour wishing for a certain birth experience and being sensible enough to defer to medical staff who perhaps are slightly more qualified to know if either mum or baby are in danger and what (heaven forbid they dare to say) is best for both of them.

There is an element who steadfastly want to adhere to their birth plan and think because they have read the entire internet know better than a qualified and experienced midwife or doctor.

I didn't have a clue my baby was in distress (apart from the bonkers heart rate but that's normal, right?) so would have been a selfish fool to stand my ground. My pride and dignity would have been intact but my baby would have been oxygen starved.

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Old 27.11.2011, 15:11
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Re: Midwives and Natural Childbirth- Zürich

I haven't read all of the discussion, but: If you're worried about the language barrier, why not consider taking with you a doula? There are several english speaking doulas working in and around Zurich. You'll find a doula here: www.doula.ch There's some information in english on the front page and if you go to "doula finden" you'll get the list with all doulas and their language skills.

About "Beleghebamme": there are only a few and they are very busy. The same with "Hausgeburtshebamme". If these two are options for you, contact them very early.

All the best!
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Old 27.11.2011, 15:29
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Re: Midwives and Natural Childbirth- Zürich

A couple of comments

As someone else said most doctors here speak English if not all and as a doctor is present at a birth here then that helps if the midwife doesn't speak english

My friend gave birth with a non english speaking midwife and her gyne who spoke English. She said it wasn't an issue as she pretty much got the gist of what was being asked of her 'push' 'breath' etc...

As for assigning a midwife before the birth, this is correct for the midwife visits when you get home but as far as I know you get the midwife available in the hospital when you go in. It's not like the UK where you have a midwife throughout your pregnancy and she is there at the birth. But you choose one for your after birth home visits

I gave birth at the Hirslanden (semi private insurance) I don't speak any german and I had no issues, even the few nurses that couldn't speak much English spoke enough for the task at hand. The midwives all spoke English that I came into contact with

If language is a worry I'd try and over come that as i think you just had a bad experience on that day looking around triemli (did you tell them you dont speak German? maybe they were assuming you understood more than you did but if you had told them maybe they could have answered concerns about giving birth there and the language worries)

If you have semi private cover its worth looking at the private hospitals too - I think they may assist English speakers more being private etc...

One thing that would worry me having a home birth and language being a problem is if something went wrong, I was rushed into hospital and then the language obstacles being heightened through stress

I think you need to go back to Triemli and tell them you dont speak good enough German and are not confident enough during a birth scenario and ask them how it will be for you English speaking and also look at other hospitals

I am a bit old fashioned but i'd not want to be anywhere but a hospital giving birth, I respect home birth decisions but I never understand them - a friend just got her long awaited home birth and then was rushed in straight after with a retained placenta and issues with the baby and they ended up being in hospital anyway for 4 nights

Wishing you lots of luck and hope the MS goes soon
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Old 27.11.2011, 16:16
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Re: Midwives and Natural Childbirth- Zürich

Isabella, if it helps, I chose a private midwife route principally because I too had ideas how I would like my birth to go and was also concerned that in the heat of the moment, I would not perhaps be the best advocate for my preferred option or even perhaps I would foolishly stick to my preferred route in the face of very real concerns from the doctors, which I was not recognising. Also, my first child being born in the UK where unfortunately there is no chance of you picking your surgery midwife (who does your routine pregnancy care) and taking her into hospital (in theory it should be possible but very few surgeries offer it and even fewer actually manage to follow through on the provision) and I was really concerned to have a midwife present who I knew, who I trusted and with whom I had had ample opportunity to discuss my preferred options (and through these discussions, these preferences did change!). Add on top of this your concern about language and I really do think that an allocated midwife through a geburtshaus would be a really interesting angle for you to look at. I googled geburtshaus in Zurich and there would seem to be a few.

I did not choose a homebirth because I had a great philosophical desire to be at home; it was my midwife who said "hey if it all goes well, and you are happy, why go to hospital" and that is what we ended up doing.

Choosing a midwife and having a philosophy about how you would ideally like your birth to go does not mean having to come down on either side of this "great divide" of home vs. hospital. But having a midwife who knows you and what you want does mean that you are assured the best possible advocate no matter what situation arises and whereever that situation arises (and in what ever language that situation arises).
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Old 27.11.2011, 16:32
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Re: Midwives and Natural Childbirth- Zürich

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It wasn't actually directed at anyone in particular (I didn't see your research on mumsnet - sorry) but I'm referring to a fine line between women in labour wishing for a certain birth experience and being sensible enough to defer to medical staff who perhaps are slightly more qualified to know if either mum or baby are in danger and what (heaven forbid they dare to say) is best for both of them.

There is an element who steadfastly want to adhere to their birth plan and think because they have read the entire internet know better than a qualified and experienced midwife or doctor.

I didn't have a clue my baby was in distress (apart from the bonkers heart rate but that's normal, right?) so would have been a selfish fool to stand my ground. My pride and dignity would have been intact but my baby would have been oxygen starved.
I think you bring up a good point. Of course its important for every woman to have a birth plan and expectations for their labor, but in reality there is no knowing how things will progress and its important to keep in mind the purpose you are going through this: to deliver a healthy baby. Really everything else is secondary... natural... epidural... Cesarian... vaginal... pain relief or none. Aside for some rare and extreme circumstances, its not what matters all that much in the end. What matters is a healthy mom and baby. I say this because i have seen so many moms becoming depressed after birth because they felt like a failure for not being able to keep to their birth plan. Seriously. You just brought a beautiful new life in the world but months later you can't think of it without crying because you needed to have a cesarian. This is not directed at anyone in particular, just my experience speaking to new moms. A birth plan is a GREAT thing, but you need to consider the possibility that things might not work out as you planned. And thats normal.
Little-isabella, the above is not directed at you personally. just a general psa on a topic i feel strongly about.
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  #32  
Old 27.11.2011, 17:17
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Re: Midwives and Natural Childbirth- Zürich

I'm like all women in that I hope for a safe, uncomplicated birth with no interventions. But of course the reality isn't always in line with that.

For me, my birth plan is about which interventions I accept and which I do not. I may be overdue and induced or I may need an emergency c-section. I may need pain relief even though I hope I can manage without it. These are all examples of instances where I am comfortable accepting the treatment.

The others, for me, carry risks I'm not willing to take for myself or my baby, even upon recommendation by a doctor. I totally respect that these are interventions other women credit for their health and/or their baby's health. But at the end of the day, we all have to weigh up the pros and cons as we see them and make a choice - before and during (I realize this can change in labor, as has been pointed out here too).

Again, thanks so much for all the words of wisdom - from everyone.
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Old 27.11.2011, 17:23
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Re: Midwives and Natural Childbirth- Zürich

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What matters is a healthy mom and baby.
Beautifully said. I think sadly the health of the mother can be neglected though, as I've seen from a friend who had an overzealous intervention that resulted in incontinence on both ends and impossibly painful sex even years later.
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Old 27.11.2011, 17:58
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Re: Midwives and Natural Childbirth- Zürich

There are many forums for expecting mums, medical information, pros and cons, horror stories from all sides, and women who had a lot of intervention, but talk positively of their birth experiences, and others who had almost no interventions and still talk positively of their birth experience.

The english forum has a history of turning any contentious issue into a train wreck thread. You will find lots of opinions in all directions. That is why they are contentious issues...

If you are a first time mum, there are a million things that you read, and plenty that you don't read about. I promise, no matter how 'prepared' you are, it will be challenging experience full of things that you didn't imagine.

For me, as a three time mum, and having had two hospital births with epidurals, a range of other pain relief options, and a few complications, and then a homebirth which could have easily turned into a disaster (4.7kg baby who got a little stuck coming through)...I don't think there is just 'one way' of doing things.

However, my strong opinion is that you are free to explore all your options, and I encourage you to do that. Also, go back to the hospital a second time, ask more questions, see what they do for non-german speaking mothers, and really take the time to get familiar with those options.

If you are a first time mum, I would certainly not choose a homebirth out of fear of hospital. I know some women do that. I did not. I chose a homebirth so that a midwife would come to my house, where I am most comfortable, to allow me to labour at home...because with my other two births, I had a very prolonged and anxious prelabour, with babies who were poorly positioned, and whilst I got there, it was a very long process...

On paper, my first two labours were 10 plus hours, from the time I went to hospital, with at least 12 hours or longer of prelabour. My third one was still 5.5 hours from the time that I woke with contractions in the early morning, which is fairly long for a third child...

Anyway, as I said, plenty of information out there. Plenty of options to think about, and certainly even within the hospital system there are a range of attitudes, from 'phone the obstetrician and turn up at the hospital' to 'continuous care at home by a midwife' and everything in between.

Oh, and even my hospital births were not attended by an obstetrician - my care was always midwife care, the hospital that I chose has a 'hands off' approach (which I believe is quite common in Switzerland too), and midwives are there with the obstetrician on call or stationed somewhere at the hospital, if surgery is required.

I can understand your concern with a forceps or ventouse delivery. I wondered a lot about episiotomies before having my first child. What I discovered later on is that they are very common in the USA, and far less common elsewhere in the world.

Have you seen 'the business of being born' ? I was never a fan of Ricky Lake, and the documentary is fairly sensationalised, but I can tell you that the 'system' in the USA is nothing like the Australian system!

Hope that helps...

There can be waiting lists for birthing centres or independent midwives, as they cannot have too many babies due at the same time, so I suggest you do move quickly to checking your options - as it gets closer to the date you might find your options are more limited...

We can all give horror stories for all sorts of birth options. Having worked with lots of mothers and babies since having my first 12 years ago, I can certainly tell you plenty that would put you off any scenario!

I believe that how we feel about the experience has more to do with our sense of being in control of the choices, well-supported, and protected, than whether the experience was straightforward or not.

I can understand that having someone close to you who was injured by a medical intervention, would affect how you feel about that particular intervention. Being afraid makes a big difference to how we feel about birth too - and I highly recommend finding a supportive and experienced midwife who can give you some sense of perspective on that.
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  #35  
Old 30.11.2011, 10:54
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Re: Midwives and Natural Childbirth- Zürich

Thought I'd add an update with my decision. I have chosen Triemli.

My husband went back to Triemli and received a lot more information.

One thing I like is that they aren't aggressive with interventions unless truly needed. Also, I can get an elective c-section if necessary. Whilst I have every hope of a natural birth, based on my birth size and my husband's (length and weight for him were..crazy), should this be a king kong of a baby, I can at least go that route.

And better still, my mum has confirmed she will stay with us for around 6 weeks, arriving a little before my due date. She speaks fluent German and will be in the delivery room. =D

Thanks again to all you gals for the input.
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Old 30.11.2011, 11:01
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Re: Midwives and Natural Childbirth- Zürich

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One thing I like is that they aren't aggressive with interventions unless truly needed.
It would be great if you could list all those places which do practice "aggressive" interventions, in your experience, just in case anyone else is wavering on their decision on where to give birth and stumbles upon this thread...
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Old 30.11.2011, 12:43
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Re: Midwives and Natural Childbirth- Zürich

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It would be great if you could list all those places which do practice "aggressive" interventions, in your experience, just in case anyone else is wavering on their decision on where to give birth and stumbles upon this thread...
I'm guessing you didn't read the entire thread. =) I don't have hospital experience in Switzerland. I was asking for advice for that reason.

I can't list any places. I chose Triemli because the feedback I received from the hospital, here in the thread and others I've communicated with directly is that they have this approach. So I'm not saying others are aggressive - I'm saying the feedback I've received is that Triemli isn't. I'll leave others to respond with experiences regarding different hospitals though.

Sorry I can't offer anything helpful on other places.
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Old 30.11.2011, 12:56
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Re: Midwives and Natural Childbirth- Zürich

if you don't want an episiotomy there are plenty of exercises and things you can do in preparation.

also, we all have our wishes on how we want our births (especially the first) to be. we all have our ideas on what is best and safest for us. but, sometimes, there is a moment during our birthing experience that things don't go according to our plans and we have to be open to other options that weren't previously chosen.

i can't think of any woman who would choose an episiotomy or any thing else of this nature. but it happens, and there are moments when what you want or what you think is best is completely irrelevant compared to the safety and health of the birth and the baby.
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Old 30.11.2011, 13:20
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Re: Midwives and Natural Childbirth- Zürich

What are agressive interventions
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Old 30.11.2011, 13:36
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Re: Midwives and Natural Childbirth- Zürich

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What are agressive interventions
Reading back through the thread it would seem to entail the labouring mother sometimes being advised against aspects of her birth plan in order to assist the safe birth of the baby.
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