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  #261  
Old 12.09.2010, 23:09
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Re: Breast feeding

4 months sounds like a pretty good innings to me, Nil. Its more than most achieve, you should be proud
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  #262  
Old 12.09.2010, 23:12
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Re: Breast feeding

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4 months sounds like a pretty good innings to me, Nil. Its more than most achieve, you should be proud
Thanks,

I see you calmed down? Got a glass of milk?
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  #263  
Old 12.09.2010, 23:18
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Re: Breast feeding

Ha. Ta, I got otherwise occupied. Too old to breast feed milk, unfortunately.

Thanks, though
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Old 12.09.2010, 23:38
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Re: Breast feeding

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Rather a snide comment huh?

I think the point being made here ( and which I agree with) is that breastfeeding is NOT always easy. Unfortunately, many new mothers are still not being given the support that is needed to ensure successful breastfeeding and are encouraged to give up and use formula instead - which of course has its own set of "Not easy" including the extra cost and the time involved in preparation.
Really ? How would you know ?

Several people, including the hebamme, made me feel terrible that I could not breastfeed even though I was taking strong antibiotics and couldn't !

It's absolutely not true that they encourage women to give up and switch to formula.
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  #265  
Old 13.09.2010, 11:28
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Re: Breast feeding

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..
So, a large jar with about 150g of 'baby' food, maybe has 9g of carbohdyrate... and a medium potato has 6-7 times as much 'nutritional value.... even if a child ate 1/4 of a potato that would be more nutrition than the entire jar of baby food About a tablespoon of mashed potato...or a whole jar of 'baby' food...
Not mentioning the cardboard taste. Have the moms actually taste the little pots I ask myself a lot, since it's crap tasting, ugh. Home made and fresh is so nice.

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..(I've lost count of the number of women who have bought breastpumps, bottles and dummies and assumed that they are all 'required'...and women who pump their milk for no reason except they think that is what everyone does...
Most girls I know with supply problem used the pumps to successfully increase supply. It is easy. You pump right after you nurse, every single time, for a few days, weeks, your supply usually increases, mine doubled within a short time. I stored my pumped milk since one never knows, dad can feed, too, but usually people just dump after they stimulate. You just have to know how your hormons respond, stay observant and watch your body. If there is a lot of milk, enough supply, the child sucks much better, the let down also calms down. So, I wouldn't bash pumps, it is actually a smart thing to have, and to bring with you to the maternity ward, then to be stuck waiting for the staff to find you one. You can jump start your lactation that way, as well. Just because you have pump and use it does not mean kid has to get his food from a bottle. Nipple stimulation by pump, especially at night time when prolactin responds the most efficiently, makes everything a lot easier, too.

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..I had my baby in germany all alone with the dad ( no family and no friends) and even gave birth not speaking a word of German. The only thing is that I got lucky to give birth in a pro breastfeeding clinic..My only help was a French forum on pregnancy. I had no reference , no support and noone really to guide me.. my mom came when emilie was 2 weeks old as my husband went away on a business trip but she could not help me at all on this matter since she 'd never breastfed her 3 daughters.. I am also the only 1 to have got kids!

So your 2 biggest factors in my personal experience never happened. I was never taught it, was shown a little bit at the clinic , and that's it! However, i managed to breasfeed ( did not even think it could not work) and I never had all the pains and disconfort that women can have especially in the first 2/3 weeks.
Sounds like a similar scenario to mine. Also gave birth in nursing friendly hosp, they have to fullfill certain criteria to get that lable, but they sucked. They even didn't know one must receive your child after birth right away to nurse, they pretty much run on old notions and myth sometimes from 50s. I persisted, never let the child stay overnight at the pupponiere since that's when nurses sneak the sugar water in your babies here, and then the moms wander why they baby is not motivated to suck. Keep your child with you, nurse immediately and don't believe in the bollox that c-section you need to rest, then nurse. Your milk will come much later if you don't nurse right away and your child might be already frustrated to focus well.

If one goes to deliver with thinking "I will try and see how it goes" one usually does not end up nursing, it is not always easy, one does not immediately understand the mechanism, etc... Lotsa obstacles. If one goes to the hospital determined and thinking "I will make it work, there is no other way around it", one ends up nursing. Dr. Sears is a good read for this.

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You see, I had it all. A very supportive husband, a midwife specialist in breastfeeding and on call, friends to ask tips and tricks but after 4 months, it was finished, nada, empty.
It's too bad you had nobody telling you how to increase your lactation. It is not difficult, the mechanism is very simple, it does, however, exhaust, it is demanding. Let me know if you care to know how. You either believe in yourself, go ahead with the whole supply increase shtick and it works, or you give in the doubts and exhaustion..If you supplement, even a tiny bit, before you try to increase the lactation, forget nursing.

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Really ? How would you know ?

Several people, including the hebamme, made me feel terrible that I could not breastfeed even though I was taking strong antibiotics and couldn't !

It's absolutely not true that they encourage women to give up and switch to formula.
Both crappy quacky peds we had incouraged me to switch to formula. The lact specialists here had no clue, forexample, they had no idea about letting your baby sleep at night usually means slow decrease in supply, ever so slow you will notice too late to do something. Sometimes time stops in CH, the advice I got was attrocious, really, things from 50-60s back home..

I hate when people make poor moms feel bad. Honestly, that's the lamest and cheapest thing to do. I also hate when moms don't get the warm, strong support and real facts they need in the hardest moments.

Just for the sake of info, here, though - you can successfully relactate. You keep pumping and dumping, kid gets formula, not out of bottle, there are helps (tube tied to your brest, spoon, syrringe, etc), you make the kid come back to your breast when you are drug free. It is completely doable, you by no means have to stop nursing just because you took ATBs, I had 2 times very evil mastitis, and with ATBs and was able to nurse for long. Plus there are ATBs that do not pass to milk, the docs must be on top of this, though. So, the fact one thinks you have to stop because of the medicine, just shows the medical staff did not bother getting updated on info and help you through this. There is a lot more available to nursing moms then what the medical staff push on them. I was hardcore with some of the bull I got here, and people's attitude changed to helpful. They just have to feel your determination.

Nicky, I don't see any selfrighteousness here in terms of profeeders. For some people it is easy, for some it is difficult. I think the official campaigners are not going to spread the news how difficult it might be for some, since it would at the end scare and deter even more moms who are unsure of their body functions. People who don't nurse are not failures unless they perceive themselves as such, are not evil moms, just people who either prioritize differently or people who wanted, tried hard, but were not successful, for whatever reasons. Nobody is evil. To keep labeling pro feeders self righteous here is getting offensive and old, tbh. I am glad people share their info, it is kind to others, since I am sure the profeeders do not by now need to get educated about how nursing works.

I do have a friend who was diagnosed with cancer and went through the treatment. With help of her family, friends and online support, her determination, etc..she was able to stop lactating, get successfully treated and relactate again, so her child continued to be nursed. It shows she knew how nursing works and it how important it is for her and her kid. She does not walk around saying everyone, please, nurse. Who cares what other moms want to do with their kids. But, if someone needs help with nursing, she offers priceless advice.

If someone wants to nurse here, it is really nice there are people who are kind enough to share what they went through. I am sure they are not doing it to make the few who didn't manage or are afraid they will not be able to feel bad about themselves. The only thing I can read in here is sympathy.
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  #266  
Old 13.09.2010, 12:11
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Re: Breast feeding

MusicChick, You have a double speach. In one hand you feel bad for those who makes the moms feel guilty, but with your speach you do accomplish the same. Stop pretending everything is coming form education, support and bla bla bla.

I wasn't dump. I did my research back then. I had a doula who help me. She couldn't do more after a point.

I did pump and pump and pump. But when the freaking pump doesn't pump anything after a while, it means it is done. I passed more time in my room pumping and enything else.

You are not in every women's bedroom nor in their medical situation.

This is what women like me gets pissed at women like you. You can't admit than sometimes nature can decide differently. It has to be coming from a lack of education, a lack of support, a lack of whatever. NO. And this is what makes those women feel like a failure. They start to believe they didn't do enough, didn't know enough, should have tried more.

It is not all black and white. The grey zone is not necessary understandable. Instead, a good smile, a nice tap in the back and just saying: Hey, you did a great job! Congratulation! (like Menace told me)

This is better then to try to find who is guilty of what. When is it done, it is no needs to turn the knife.

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Old 13.09.2010, 12:46
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Re: Breast feeding

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MusicChick, You have a double speach. Stop pretending everything is coming form education, support and bla bla bla.

I wasn't dump. I did my research back then. I had a doula who help me. She couldn't do more after a point.

I did pump and pump and pump. But when the freaking pump doesn't pump anything after a while, it means it is done. I passed more time in my room pumping and enything else.

You are not in every women's bedroom nor in their medical situation.

This is what women like me gets pissed at women like you. You can't admit than sometimes nature can decide differently. It has to be coming from a lack of education, a lack of support, a lack of whatever. NO. And this is what makes those women feel like a failure. They start to believe they didn't do enough, didn't know enough, should have tried more.

It is not all black and white. The grey zone is not necessary understandable. Instead, a good smile, a nice tap in the back and just saying: Hey, you did a great job! Congratulation! (like Menace told me)

This is better then to try to find who is guilty of what. When is it done, it is no needs to turn the knife.
Nil, you did a great job, why do you feel like a failure? Nobody said you didn't do a great job..so stop feeling like you did, nobody is telling you you failed. Now, how about not holding a grudge and not being mad at those who are offering advice to those who might need it or appreciate it?

Now, I am not pretending, I really think this. You could know me by now, eventhough it is only online..I write what I think, and in my experience it all falls into these few cathegories:lack of info (it does not mean you didn't search enough, it might mean people you asked advised you poorly), lack of determination, stress, lack of support, medical reasons (thyroid, or whatever other hormonal medical stuff). One can work with this, if one wants to. If not, it's their biz. Many moms suffer from more than baby blues, that kills determination and increases stress. It's hormons, again. But nature still made it available to a huge majority of us, thankfully. it's what we do with it, either makes it happen or kills it.

Increasing supply works, it is a combo of many things, though. If you start too late, then it will be extremely hard. You nurse every hour. EVERY HOUR. You pump right after that, every single time. You do it day and night. You don't pump to get milk out, you pump to stimulate production, get it? Stimulation = prolactin. You do it days weeks before your supply drastically decreases, if your child eats a little or skips a feeding, always pump afterwards.. It is important to notice it before you have serious problems. Even your doula might have not known this. Nursing is not always a priority to midwives and doulas. Not every one knows the mechanisms correctly, or they never had a major troubles with it themselves so they might think it is easy for all. I have met birthing staff like that. You do not supplement before you give it a very hard try, I never did, I knew it would kill the demand. Once you kill demand, you kill supply. It is pretty misserable but it works. Of course we do not know why your supply stopped, but you are not sharing your details here, so hard to tell. I am not encouraging you to share, if you don't feel like it, but there is a chemical character of hormons, if you follow certain regimen, they respond. If you do it too late, are too stressed, don't have faith in yourself, or start pumping way too late (honestly to start pumping so late that your pump gets nothing out within a few days is way too late to expect any result quickly), or suplement any other food or drink than bm, it might be too hard for some.

I don't offer advise in a nursing thread to be mocked or called pretentious, Nil. I am sure people either agree or they don't, I don't push in on anyone. Please, be careful in your rage, no matter what state of mind you are in right now. It's getting old. You gota tell yourself "Congratulations, Nil, 4mo is much better than a lot of women hoped for"...Otherwise you will always have a reaction when you read about succesfull nursing, and that must be tiring. But I am honestly and virtually patting you on your shoulders and saying "Good job, Nil". Now I only hope that the info and my own experience I posted here for others will not make you even more upset.

Ok, let's calm it and read about people's positive experiences nursing...
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  #268  
Old 13.09.2010, 13:05
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Re: Breast feeding

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(..) I am sure people either agree or they don't, I don't push in on anyone. Please, be careful in your rage, no matter what state of mind you are in right now. It's getting old. You gota tell yourself "Congratulations, Nil, 4mo is much better than a lot of women hoped for"...Otherwise you will always have a reaction when you read about succesfull nursing, and that must be tiring. But I am honestly and virtually patting you on your shoulders and saying "Good job, Nil". Now I only hope that the info and my own experience I posted here for others will not make you even more upset.

Ok, let's calm it and read about people's positive experiences nursing...
Ok first of all. Me being pregnant as nothing to do about the way I feel about this subject. Second of all, I did breastfeed 4 months and after I ''lost" my milk I found the bottle being a great and wonderful invention. Now, I am not feeling guilty because I believe I did my best and even if it was very though. I don't need you of anybody to tell me that I did a great job.

But I do talk for other women who read this thread and are in the situation I was and while trying everything, nothing work. Those women, right now feel this pressure from the pro-breastfeeder to try harder, to get more information, to pump more. I believe you are doing a great job but sometimes your position on the matter makes me arg!

I always thought it is a cheap shot to put someone's emotion, position, ideology on being hormonal! I got in this subject wayyyy long before I was pregnant and I still have the same position and emotion toward it.

You should know better from me too.
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Old 13.09.2010, 13:16
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Re: Breast feeding

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Ok first of all. Me being pregnant as nothing to do about the way I feel about this subject. Second of all, I did breastfeed 4 months and after I ''lost" my milk I found the bottle being a great and wonderful invention. Now, I am not feeling guilty because I believe I did my best and even if it was very though. I don't need you of anybody to tell me that I did a great job.

But I do talk for other women who read this thread and are in the situation I was and while trying everything, nothing work. Those women, right now feel this pressure from the pro-breastfeeder to try harder, to get more information, to pump more. I believe you are doing a great job but sometimes your position on the matter makes me arg!

I always thought it is a cheap shot to put someone's emotion, position, ideology on being hormonal! I got in this subject wayyyy long before I was pregnant and I still have the same position and emotion toward it.

You should know better from me too.
Nil, I'm quite certain MusicChick's motivation is not to 'rub it in' for women who were unsuccessful despite trying everything- it's for women who, like her, had to really dig and push to get info- so that everything can be tried.

To hold one's tongue for fear of causing emotional discomfort is odd, as it seems many women are saddened when months or years later they find out there were many things they could have done to maybe make it work- but were unable to find that info at the time.
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Old 13.09.2010, 13:20
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Re: Breast feeding

Yeah, while I ponder into the technique side of things I get someone flying hands in the air and saying how they tried everything and how people like me make them frustrated...Drama. You also know I am not the most diplomatic person, hope it does not translate as arrogance. If I was arrogant, I wouldn't waste time to share with those who are interested in the info I gathered through my challenging times of nursing. Having this info saved my ability to nurse.

If you get upset, don't come near this thread, you seem to be happy and satisfied with the way things went, so what's the big deal? Confidence, mama, confidence.
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  #271  
Old 13.09.2010, 13:23
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Re: Breast feeding

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Nil, I'm quite certain MusicChick's motivation is not to 'rub it in' for women who were unsuccessful despite trying everything- it's for women who, like her, had to really dig and push to get info- so that everything can be tried.

To hold one's tongue for fear of causing emotional discomfort is odd, as it seems many women are saddened when months or years later they find out there were many things they could have done to maybe make it work- but were unable to find that info at the time.
I agree with you, I believe it too. But I tell her my own situation and instead to accept it, I feel like she needs to tell me something more could have been done.

What I am saying, is no, not always. Which she said too in her last post.

I know how kind and sweet she is and she is such an nice girl who just want to help. Being sure of something is great. Sometimes is it good too to listen too. And now all breastfeeding problems are explicable.
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Old 13.09.2010, 13:43
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Re: Breast feeding

Nil : you breasfed more than most French women can as the maternity cover is only 3 months..

Breasfeeding is always and will always be a sensitive issue. I have a friend who is a pro active in this area but I have decided not to talk about it with her anymore because she is limit extremist in her comments... it drives me crazy..
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Old 13.09.2010, 13:52
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Re: Breast feeding

Actually Music Chick I haven't found your posts overly self righteous but more informative. But remember women and new mothers are made to feel over whelmed with all they have to do and their bodies have to achieve, i suppose my issue on this thread is a bit like Nils, that a new mum reading this and maybe struggling after 3 months of breast feeding is going to feel such a failure when they read things like - it's what women were designed for etc...

The only comment I have taken a little offence to from you was this

Quote:
Now, I am not pretending, I really think this. You could know me by now, eventhough it is only online..I write what I think, and in my experience it all falls into these few cathegories:lack of info (it does not mean you didn't search enough, it might mean people you asked advised you poorly), lack of determination, stress, lack of support, medical reasons (thyroid, or whatever other hormonal medical stuff). One can work with this, if one wants to. If not, it's their biz. Many moms suffer from more than baby blues, that kills determination and increases stress. It's hormons, again. But nature still made it available to a huge majority of us, thankfully. it's what we do with it, either makes it happen or kills it.
I think its those quotes that may cause 'drama' as you call it (by the way I am far far from a drama queen)

Anyway I think a struggling mother reading 'lack of determination' 'and if one wants to' etc... can make women feel failures

I am sure when the time comes I will have lots of determination, but if my determination is stretched and baby is suffering due to lack of milk have i then not been determined enough? have i not fought hard enough? Will m y baby not be better off eventually going to formula if its not getting enough milk and its mum is worn down and therefore not producing enough?

I think there are two separate arguments here. Choosing to bottle feed formula without even trying to breast feed and trying to breast feed and different legitimate factors stopping you, my argument is for the later.
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Old 13.09.2010, 14:00
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Re: Breast feeding

I saw a programme years ago about women who had adopted babies and were able to breast feed them - initially with a bottle with a tube along the breast going to the nipple area. The sucking + huge emotional effect activated hormones and they began to lactate naturally and could drop the formula altogether. It was wonderful.

It is a very emotional issue - and it would be such a pity if it becomes a argument between 2 'camps'. Professionals just are damned if they do, and damned if they don't. Most professionals accept the research and experience that breast is best, and do try and encourage and support mums best they can. If they did not they would fail in their job. There are of course ways and ways to do this, and making any mum feeling a failure for 'not being able to bfeed' (whatever that means, as said above only a very tiny proportion are not able to for physical reasons) is just not on.
I had an emergency caesar and went home on 4th day to be alone most of the time, parents and family abroad and a husband who worked amazingly long hours and often overnight and week-ends. I was determined to breastfeed - it was very painful because of the ceasar scar. It is often forgotten that one of the best ways to regain your figure after a baby is to bfeed - as the action tightens all the muscles in the pelvic area (hence the pain if you have an op scar) - the hormones released can also help with depression and bonding (on top of the other advantages mentioned). It took a few days to establish, then it was a doddle. My daughter has just bfed both hers, despite it being very difficult for the first time.

It is often a family thing - if you were bfed, you are much more likely to bfeed yourself, and so on.

I am glad I never gave Nestlé and Co a penny to feed my babies. Their formula pushing in Africa and other third world countries has been a total disaster and caused so many to die. Another factor.

Bonne chance to all whatever you decide.
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Old 13.09.2010, 14:01
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Re: Breast feeding

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I agree with you, I believe it too. But I tell her my own situation and instead to accept it, I feel like she needs to tell me something more could have been done.

What I am saying, is no, not always. Which she said too in her last post.

I know how kind and sweet she is and she is such an nice girl who just want to help. Being sure of something is great. Sometimes is it good too to listen too. And now all breastfeeding problems are explicable.
You know I am not trying to make you feel bad, Nil, I am proud of you (I can see you rolling your eyes, hahaha..) for nursing and trying to fix it. I feel bad that you didn't succeed, really. And honestly, just having that little bit of info you mentioned, personally - I think it is because you were not aware of your dissappearing supply and you had nobody to tell you early enough. Hormons might play up, too, for some. I found out late, too, since we had the happiest kiddo on earth, one would never think she is not demanding as much as she should, to keep successfully lactating and to keep the demand/supply balance. It does have something to do with the size of breast, too, no matter what books say, people with giant chest and a good technique have much easier time with production than the normals. Them normals must feed more often. Not noticing the loss of supply early enough happens so often, and it breaks my heart for moms who think there is nothing to do to fix it. When I know there is unless people are on hormonal treatment or take a pill that might go against. It was so hard to be far from home and make it work, but I did, eventhough there was no help here. I wouldn't compare myself with anyone in this. It makes me no better mom than you, in fact sometimes it was so pointlessly hard I was wondering what effort I am projecting into it...Like, one thing I am doing here in CH, so I gota do it right, man. Hahaha...It would have been easier with a bottle, you probably gained a few years of life span while I killed mine with stress. 14-15 feedings on a good day, sterilizing afterwards, months of nutty effort, sleepless nights, weeks and weeks of stress. I completely understand it is not worth it for some, really, and am just trying to show for those who might get stranded, that there are ways. And that nobody will talk about it directly to expecting moms, since it would scare people away. The medical staff who had any comments about nursing were so off, I can still hear the ped who was suprised I want to keep nursing past the initial 2-3 mo. The hardships only happen in some special set ups, too, while I have friends who must have been meant to be wet nurses or sumfin, that gets frustrating, too. And I have to say, with human bodies, most things are explicable, we just don't always have the right info at the right time..

Makes me think of a friend who was happy to supplement month 3 with oatmeal dinners, to make her child apparently sleep better, and I just mentioned to her, watch out if you want to keep nursing past the 6mo bench mark, since I knew she wanted to, it was very important to her. Comes mo 7 and she is not able to nurse anymore, when it was so obvious. Earlier one starts substituting and not maintaining the demand through other ways (pump, frequent night feeds, more freequent day feeds, etc..stimulating both breasts, nipples, staying away from in some cases nursing enemies - shields, binkies, etc), earlier the demand dissappears and the supply follows. It was sad, though, seeing how frustrated she felt, how lesser of a woman (not that she should by any means, but girls just do...), when she could have nursed two years if she wanted. 98% women can. Everyone I know is in that category.

Another friend of mine was set of doing the hippie shtick and nurse until the child self weans. She got soooo touched out and miserable since her guy never helped out and she was ashamed to ask, and she wanted to make the child sleep through the night, thinking it's the nursing that keeps her up. She was getting quite impatient with her little baby. So she weaned, child kept waking up no matter what, and instead of the reproaches she had before, she was pished off with herself for weaning when deep down in her heart she so wanted her child to self wean.

We all make choices. I hope all moms are happy with the choices they made, nobody should make them feel bad. The only think would have made my life easier, and that would have been having a sufficient and early enough info.
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Old 13.09.2010, 14:34
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Re: Breast feeding

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Actually Music Chick I haven't found your posts overly self righteous but more informative. But remember women and new mothers are made to feel over whelmed with all they have to do and their bodies have to achieve, i suppose my issue on this thread is a bit like Nils, that a new mum reading this and maybe struggling after 3 months of breast feeding is going to feel such a failure when they read things like - it's what women were designed for etc...

The only comment I have taken a little offence to from you was this



I think its those quotes that may cause 'drama' as you call it (by the way I am far far from a drama queen)

Anyway I think a struggling mother reading 'lack of determination' 'and if one wants to' etc... can make women feel failures

I am sure when the time comes I will have lots of determination, but if my determination is stretched and baby is suffering due to lack of milk have i then not been determined enough? have i not fought hard enough? Will m y baby not be better off eventually going to formula if its not getting enough milk and its mum is worn down and therefore not producing enough?

I think there are two separate arguments here. Choosing to bottle feed formula without even trying to breast feed and trying to breast feed and different legitimate factors stopping you, my argument is for the later.
Ok ok, I haven't stressed enough that it is not much of the mom's determination that I am talking about, women really do have enough on their plate as it is in this sensitive time window, it's a mix of their partners and family being supportive, since it really does make a difference to cry in dispair and have your informed partnenr (or mom or a friend): I know this is really important to you, you can do it! What do you need me to do? So, partners, you play a major role in this! I agree, it has something to do with being brought up certain way, eventhough some don't need it, same goes for the support. Some moms really are determined enough on their own, some need TLC a lot more, some are fighters in this. I actually got pished off at all the ignorance and poor info and how ready everyone was to see mee quit, my guts were telling me the nursing days aren't over at mo 3, so I buckled up and hunted for any info I could have. Home, in the US, here, hospital, agents, books, library. And then, turned a lot inwards, because all bodies are still pretty unique and those mechanisms vary with people. I don't blame moms who don't have energy to go through this. And opt for ff. Really. I was so at that point. But I wanted to make it and knew, if I allow myself even think about ff, it will be a lot lot harder. I also think the f producers want the world to think how difficult and impossible bf is. I have a feeling that nasty pseudo selfrighteous attitude you get from people helping with nursing is actually due to this, not becuase they would be mad at moms.

If your determination is stretched, go for ff, peacefully, but, make your mind up and feel good about it. I actually love Sunar, which is an old commie formula, it tastes so good. It will do no good to feel bad about it, to you, to your child, since they feel how moms feel. But if you honestly ask me if I see a difference in activity, agility, quickness, health, immune system of a ff and bf babies that I and friends had, I have to say I did see the difference. And I am not crazy parents talking high about my own offspring. I am actually a wee bit embarrassed that nursing is so important to me, but I blame my country and folks, haha.

Now, if you ever get into the situation that you don't have enough milk although you started well, trust me, unless they took some organ out of your body (I am not sure of the Engl. name of hypophyse) or you are on some meds all of a sudden, it is all because your supply dropped, little by little, it can happen even if there is a proper demand: poor technique, child does not suck correctly, too fast (swallowing air, same symptoms as reflux), reflux, improper latch, your milk stream is too much, your chest too full, let down problems, improper position, improper feeding schedule, improper mom's diet, not enough sleep, not enough hydration, not enough physical activity, etc. They say chuck the schedule and it is true, adjust it to your child, because there is a worry about child eating too often, but that's mostly bull. Sometimes babies don't cry when they are hungry and they are just happy being alive and stimulated (like mine). But, they don't mention, it is really important for some to keep feeding schedule so some children eat enough, like mine. So, I had a every hour then every two hours feeding schedule, in order to maintain good supply. My kid is still a nibbler, she never liked big portions of food at once. So, this is what I meant by working with it.

If you plan to deliver, and try to make yourself feel calm and not stressed about nursing, do it with the attitude, "nothing is stopping me, my body works like a clock, I love my body, it will feed my baby just fine", you really will be impressed. I wouldn't go in there thinking there is always ff to fall back on, since it really really does demotivate when you are in the midst of troubles and then moms are sorry about giving in. It is usually not so hard at the beginning, but I think it gets trickier at the first major growth spurt, which is 2-4mo, when moms think they have the technique down and schedule observed enough, and don't notice early enough that their kid needs a lot more food, sometimes 5 or more feedings per 24hrs.

Of course there are legitimate reasons for folks to quit, even if it was just mom's comfort and mental health. FF never killed anyone (well, unless I discount China and Africa, but we aren't there). But I am not being obviously overly diplomatic since I have a huge faith in moms and women in general, and how fantastic their bodies are.

Man, I think I have chosen a wrong career, haha, gota sign up at local LLL...
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Old 13.09.2010, 17:01
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Re: Breast feeding

I'm with Nil on this one (and I'm not pregnant :-). I fully understand what message she is trying to get through. From pro breast-feeders it is always "if you only tried more, got more help, got more support from the father, was taught the right technique, you could have done it".

Well, I am absolutely convinced that the number of women that have physical problems to breast-feed is much bigger than the 2% that the LLL always claim. In particular, I believe that the number of mothers having insufficient production is much bigger than claimed. And for those mothers, children and families, I think that alternating bottle and breast can make a HUGE difference in their well-being.

Personally, I had a horrible first week with my first born when my motherly instincts where telling me he wasn't getting enough food but I had read so much about breast-feeding that I was convinced mentally that couldn't be the case. "Every one can breast-feed, it is natural, you don't want to give bottle because then they get nipple-confusion etc, etc."

Until finally I got an older maternity nurse helping me out in the hospital and she dared to recommend me to top-up with bottle. What a difference! My son became a totally different child! I then continued to alternate breast and bottle for 6 months.

When my daughter was born, I was of course in a totally different situation. I knew from the beginning what I was going to do (alternate). The first week with my daughter was therefore much, much more relaxing than with my first born. This is something that still today makes me angry! Why didn't I start earlier with the bottle? Why was I so scared to believe in my instincts?

And that is the message I want to convey to any woman out there about to become a mother. Follow your instinct! If you feel you don't have enough, trust yourself! You're not a failure for toping up or substituting the breast with formula!

And to come back to my starting paragraph - to all the pro breast-feeders out there, I am sure that in your mind you are right now thinking that I really had enough milk, it was only a lack in technique or it was because I didn't nurse often enough or I should have used the pump to encourage the milk-production.
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Old 13.09.2010, 17:21
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Re: Breast feeding

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And to come back to my starting paragraph - to all the pro breast-feeders out there, I am sure that in your mind you are right now thinking that I really had enough milk, it was only a lack in technique or it was because I didn't nurse often enough or I should have used the pump to encourage the milk-production.
You shouldn't be angry that you didn't do the first time what you consider best now..One never knows, does one, way at the start. Feeling guilty sucks, I am sorry moms go thought all the crappy guilt feeling. I think it is great you tried, nobody said mixing this up for your relaxed feeling is a bad idea, it obviously worked for you. Good for you.

Now, out of curiousity, what did you do to increase your lactation? It's not only LLL that states the stats, actually any good doctor will explain the prolactin production, etc. It is important to have a good expert helping you, when your lactation is not enough. How did your feeding schedule go with your newborn?
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Old 13.09.2010, 17:29
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Re: Breast feeding

As much as I like you and respect you MusicChick, but in this topic you are more stubborn than stubborn :-)

You managed to do exactly what I said and expected you to do. You don't say it out right but in your two paragraphs you are managing to insinuate that the problems I had were due to wrong technique and not something physical.




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You shouldn't be angry that you didn't do the first time what you consider best now..One never knows, does one, way at the start. Feeling guilty sucks, I am sorry moms go thought all the crappy guilt feeling. I think it is great you tried, nobody said mixing this up for your relaxed feeling is a bad idea, it obviously worked for you. Good for you.

Now, out of curiousity, what did you do to increase your lactation? It's not only LLL that states the stats, actually any good doctor will explain the prolactin production, etc. It is important to have a good expert helping you, when your lactation is not enough. How did your feeding schedule go with your newborn?
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Old 13.09.2010, 17:47
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Re: Breast feeding

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As much as I like you and respect you MusicChick, but in this topic you are more stubborn than stubborn :-)

You managed to do exactly what I said and expected you to do. You don't say it out right but in your two paragraphs you are managing to insinuate that the problems I had were due to wrong technique and not something physical.
Yeah, I am stubborn, haha, no hard feeling, though, I don't mean to make anyone grind their teeth, fo sho. I have helped a bunch of friends here and home, Tilia, and insuficient supply was always a matter of technique. One has to work really hard sometimes to get the demand/supply working, if you are in the maternity ward and not feeding your child once an hour in case of the supply troubles, one would never ever have enough, pump after, feed, pump after, never let your child sleep longer than 2-3hrs at night. And you have to hydrate, 3-5l. And, how many nurses knew this? None. That's my point. How many gave me and my friends terrible advice? All of them. It kills me when moms are at the disposal of careless staff and then they are let to feel incompetent laters since their nursing does not work.

The only instance that we were not able to do much was a friend on thyroid meds for months prior pregnancy, and after massive hormonal therapy she underwent for conception, so her hormons were still pretty much all over the place, but it was more stress and being a single mom, too, not trusting herself, etc.

You know I just talked to a neighbor, lovely girl, with a lovely child. She was very sad she was only able to nurse a few weeks, since she told me she didn't have enough. But, she also bragged right out of maternity ward how great her kiddo is since she only needs 5 feedings a day, not realizing to feed a newborn 5-6x a day is setting up for major troubles laters. I didn't want to be a party pooper and warn her too much, since it is none of my biz, but so many people do not know how these things work,there is a major lobby for ff, docs don't care and the lact peeps I met here had no clue. It's not enough to have a lovely romantic image in your mind of you nursing your child, when you prepare yourself for nursing. It's a science (for some, definitely, for me it was crappy hard work, I was no textbook bfeeder). For others - a breeze.
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