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Old 12.01.2011, 17:12
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Re: Breast feeding

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I know! See up, I already began to deal with judgemental comments... I guess I will get a lot of those....
As long as you are sure you want it that way, other people don't matter. It has to be right for you.
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Old 12.01.2011, 17:20
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Re: Breast feeding

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I know! See up, I already began to deal with judgemental comments... I guess I will get a lot of those....
I think you're being a bit defensive here Nil... I don't think the comment you groaned above was judgemental towards you - it was someone briefly sharing their breastfeeding experience (that unfortunately happened to follow directly after your question, probably as the thread was bumped) but didn't even reference your question. It is a breastfeeding thread afterall (not a not-breastfeeding thread! )

While I agree that your decision to breastfeed or not to breastfeed is nobody's business but your own, you are kind of opening yourself up to potential comments/judgements by making such statements on a public forum in the first place!

all the best for your new little one
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Old 12.01.2011, 17:34
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Re: Breast feeding

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I think you're being a bit defensive here Nil... I don't think the comment you groaned above was judgemental towards you - it was someone briefly sharing their breastfeeding experience (that unfortunately happened to follow directly after your question, probably as the thread was bumped) but didn't even reference your question. It is a breastfeeding thread afterall (not a not-breastfeeding thread! )

While I agree that your decision to breastfeed or not to breastfeed is nobody's business but your own, you are kind of opening yourself up to potential comments/judgements by making such statements on a public forum in the first place!

all the best for your new little one
Thanks for your wishes and input.

But I didn't see it this way, and this don,t see it like this. She wasn't doing a praise of the benefits of breastfeeding, she was giving a speech of why someone would want to choose an other road than breastfeeding. Which is great but has nothing to do with my questions.

We all know how great and wonderful breastfeeding is. No one will ever go against this. But everytime someone brings the formula feeding on the table, you have someone who'll feel the need to make a comments on it. I am aware that this is a public forum and then yes, I'll get some comments. And I am going to make some comments too for the same reasons.
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Old 12.01.2011, 17:49
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Re: Breast feeding

http://www.breastfeedingbasics.com/h...pression.shtml

Medication for suppression of lactation is not often recommended these days because in the longer-term you can have a higher risk of heart attack and stroke.

Also, post-pregnancy weight loss can be a much bigger problem if you don't breastfeed at all.

Colostrum is really important for kicking off the baby's digestive tract and protecting the bubs from damage to their intestines and stomach - most women breastfeed if only for a week or two to help clear the meconium and to reduce the risk of jaundice...

Also, did you know that babies who are breastfed to 4 months will follow the 'normal' growth curve even if they get formula after then..whereas babies who are fed formula from the beginning tend to be much heavier, and at higher risk of obesity, and other 'diet' related conditions...

Point is, even if you start breastfeeding, do it for a few weeks, then slowly cut back, it may be a better option than not feeding at all - I can understand, though, given your struggles the first time around, hoping it could be simple...

A friend of mine didn't breastfeed because her baby was killed in a tragic accident, and they managed it with cold packs, cabbage leaves, painkillers, and a small amount of expressing - the mood swings were pretty intense, and the first 2-3 weeks were pretty tough...

Another friend took the medication because she was very depressed and traumatised, and her doctor thought that not breastfeeding would be less hassle for her - but she found that when she stopped taking the medication, the milk came back again...actually, in her case, she changed her mind after 5 days, and went back to breastfeeding...and kept going for a few more months after that...

Anyway, good luck. Unpacking the 'baggage' from your first pregnancy/birth was a pretty big issue for me with my second birth, and again with my third...it was good to have support of people I could trust to be listen to me as I went through the issues...the good news is that each one was easier than the previous...

I like to describe it like having a suitcase. When you start your parenting 'journey' you pretty much have an empty suitcase...as you go along you start adding things to your suitcase. Information, experience, techniques, strategies, understandings, patience!, ability to cope better with lack of sleep, seeing the light at the end of the tunnel... ...you still might not have everything you need in your suitcase when you get there...but at least you have more now than when you started the journey...lots more options!
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  #345  
Old 12.01.2011, 17:52
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Re: Breast feeding

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Wow, Thanks for this great info. I was a bit scared because a friend of mine said she had nothing to prevent or stop the milk to come in. And I still have a good memory about the pain I had when I was breastfeeding my first.
You may find that breast feeding the second one isn't as painful- the change to the breast has already occurred. If you google this you will find most mums say the same.

http://greenmomhappymom.com/breastfeeding-second-baby/


It's like childbirth isn't as painful the second time around- as long as you don't leave it too long. After, I think it's 4 years the pelvis bones go back to almost where they were originally.
interesting fact- I wonder if at one time ( before we walked upright and changed our pelvises) if childbirth was orgasmic in some way?
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In females, the pubic symphysis is intimately close to the clitoris. In normal adults it can be moved roughly 2 mm and with 1 degree rotation. This increases for women at the time of child birth.[1]
Breastfeeding my first was hell but I loved the letdown reflex feeling. it was my 'zone-out 'fix. Breastfeeding the second was much easier, but you have to look after your boobs, get proper bras if you don't want to end up continually hoisting your wrinkled dugs off the floor later.

I suppose it's personal choice, but I would prefer the pain rather than the tiring balancing act of little one on my arm while trying to get bottles done for the newborn. I would be bound to mess up the formula zonked out on lack of sleep.

Do you have a carer at close-hand who can help out with bottle-feeding, if so that makes sense, but then I would be tempted to give them the toddler while I breastfed.

Anyway, I am so excited for you- sounds like you are a wonderful mum.
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  #346  
Old 12.01.2011, 17:58
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Re: Breast feeding

My first baby died in birth- I got pregnant with an IUD in situ so there were complications. They didn't give me anything to stop the milk, just told me not to touch my breasts. To strap them up tight- 3 days later I was in a very posh restaurant having mushroom soup. I kept thinking-How am I spilling my soup down my front? I am using the proper ladling etiquette- then realized it wasn't soup. It was my first-I wish someone had told me beforehand
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  #347  
Old 12.01.2011, 18:02
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Re: Breast feeding

Nicky - I've been feeding in public in Zurich for the last 7 months. I found it really hard at first but now I barely bat an eyelid. I think I'm quite discrete :-). I can't feed in a sling/wrap, I get in a right muddle with all the bits of cloth etc (although find a Moby wrap great for carrying my baby, and it was also great when she was tiny). I bought a couple of nursing tops from Las Perlitas on Uraniastrasse, Zurich which made life much easier. The flaps are much better positioned than in my H&M tops and I find them easier than lifting up one top and pulling a vest down. They were expensive though so I only have two!!

Always good to try feeding when you have a helper to throw a muslin over you once you've got baby in position and to go out with someone else who is breastfeeding. :-)

Good places to feed - Starbucks, Le Pain Quotidien (buggy-friendly and helpful staff), Manor (if you can get in the busy lift). I've never had any comments or noticed funny looks. I have also fed on trains (the two seats that face the back of other seats), by the lake etc. I can't tell you how many times I've seen other women feeding in public - loads when you know what you're looking at - I prob just never noticed before! I saw a woman breastfeeding her toddler on a train the other day and not at all discreetly, something I've never seen in the UK and made me feel really reassured that breastfeeding is quite accepted here.
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Old 12.01.2011, 18:08
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Re: Breast feeding

Thanks for the infos girls, but non of this apply to me. I hope it will help other girls who may struggle with the idea of the first or second pregnancy and breastfeeding.

As I probably mentioned a thousand of time already, I am not scared of breastfeeding since I did it, done it and it was all ok. If I could, I'll do it again. I also mention thousands of times that my reasons were medicals non mentalish based.

I won't breastfeed because I can't. And I am perfectly fine with this and I wish the rest of the population will come around this idea and be ok with this too.

I understand all your good intentions. I appreciate them because I know you since enough long now to know that you really really wish the best for me and the baby. And for that, I am thankful to have such a great support.
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Old 12.01.2011, 18:15
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Re: Breast feeding

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Thanks for the infos girls, but non of this apply to me. I hope it will help other girls who may struggle with the idea of the first or second pregnancy and breastfeeding.

As I probably mentioned a thousand of time already, I am not scared of breastfeeding since I did it, done it and it was all ok. If I could, I'll do it again. I also mention thousands of times that my reasons were medicals non mentalish based.

I won't breastfeed because I can't. And I am perfectly fine with this and I wish the rest of the population will come around this idea and be ok with this too.

I understand all your good intentions. I appreciate them because I know you since enough long now to know that you really really wish the best for me and the baby. And for that, I am thankful to have such a great support.
Duh ! OK, got it, that for explaining so nicely.

Just one thing to mum's who are feeding, I know people shouldn't gawk, when you want privacy, but in this day and age some of us are just amazed at the wonder of it, some are remembering their own children feeding ( which includes men), some just filled with admiration. It is such a shame that some feel it should be hidden away.
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Old 12.01.2011, 18:31
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Re: Breast feeding

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also mention thousands of times that my reasons were medicals non mentalish based.

I won't breastfeed because I can't.
Sorry, Nil, I just read back through this entire thread and I can't see where you mentioned a medical reason for not breastfeeding - but I see a lot of threads where you have defended the right of women to *choose* to not breastfeed.

I have a friend who could not breastfeed because they were medicated for bipolar disorder and separated from their baby at day 2 because they were transferred to a psychiatric hospital. I have another friend who has multiple sclerosis, and the medication she needed was not allowed if she was breastfeeding - she breastfed for 6-8 weeks and then switched to formula so she could have the medication.And I have a colleague who was breastfeeding her daughter, and at 4-5 months my colleague was diagnosed with breast cancer and faced weaning to have her breasts removed...she had the surgery within a couple of months after that...

None of those women talk about their 'right' to breastfeed...instead, they grieve that they were not able to breastfeed, and they are resolved with the knowledge that their choices were very limited...I'm more than happy to refer friends who want bottle feeding advice, to these wise women!

Please forgive me for assuming that because you have breastfed one child for 4 months, you'd be able to do it again...I'm still scratching my head what your medical reason would be, but it's a public forum and you might not want to say...although I'd encourage you to do that because there are lot of myths out there - and women who don't choose get pretty upset with other people who assume that they just 'couldn't be bothered' to breastfeed...

Just don't forget to get onto contraception straight away! My church minister's wife couldn't breastfeed due to inverted nipples, and she had three children under 3 Her husband had a vasectomy whilst she was in hospital after the birth of the third child Another friend has two children 13 months apart...she fell pregnant the month she introduced formula...
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Old 12.01.2011, 20:28
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Re: Breast feeding

It's good etiquette to naturally believe a participant who says she has a medical reason for not being able to do one thing or the other, rather than to have her to explain details on a public forum.
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Old 12.01.2011, 21:01
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Re: Breast feeding

It is a long post you did, so I'll answer it in red.

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Sorry, Nil, I just read back through this entire thread and I can't see where you mentioned a medical reason for not breastfeeding - but I see a lot of threads where you have defended the right of women to *choose* to not breastfeed.

Me, being pro choice gives me the choice to decide what I want to do and I leave to others to decide what they want to do. I strongly believe and I support women who choose to breastfeed OR Formula feed. This is a personal choice that no ones is allowed to make on others. And yes, even by being such a strong defender of formula feeding, I still did breastfeed my daughter.

I have a friend who could not breastfeed because they were medicated for bipolar disorder and separated from their baby at day 2 because they were transferred to a psychiatric hospital. I have another friend who has multiple sclerosis, and the medication she needed was not allowed if she was breastfeeding - she breastfed for 6-8 weeks and then switched to formula so she could have the medication.And I have a colleague who was breastfeeding her daughter, and at 4-5 months my colleague was diagnosed with breast cancer and faced weaning to have her breasts removed...she had the surgery within a couple of months after that...

This is very sad stories indeed, I hope they all got the support they needed and never felt less of a mother to not be able to breastfeed.

None of those women talk about their 'right' to breastfeed...instead, they grieve that they were not able to breastfeed, and they are resolved with the knowledge that their choices were very limited...I'm more than happy to refer friends who want bottle feeding advice, to these wise women!

To have an illness, a disease, a disorder, an accident or a natural ''defect" (out of better word) doesn't give you much option of choices. But they have the ''right'' to bottle feed without having to defend their actions and to have to explain to people why they do so.

Please forgive me for assuming that because you have breastfed one child for 4 months, you'd be able to do it again...I'm still scratching my head what your medical reason would be, but it's a public forum and you might not want to say... I could, I once did, but I could certainly tell you that is non of your business and that even if I didn't have a good reason, it would still none of your business... But I am not going to say that... although I'd encourage you to do that because there are lot of myths out there - and women who don't choose get pretty upset with other people who assume that they just 'couldn't be bothered' to breastfeed... That is their problems... Because woman who don't want to breastfeed feel like they have to have a good reason nowadays to not do so. Why people can't never mind their own business and stop putting their nose in other's?

Just don't forget to get onto contraception straight away! My church minister's wife couldn't breastfeed due to inverted nipples, and she had three children under 3 Her husband had a vasectomy whilst she was in hospital after the birth of the third child Another friend has two children 13 months apart...she fell pregnant the month she introduced formula...
I won't I am planning to get this issue fixed before to leave the hospital. Two is enough for us.

By the way, some girls on this forum know why I am not breastfeeding. They gave me such a great support and were great listeners. They all told me to not care about people who will judge me. Which is pretty difficult to not care about.

But one thing, I will never care about is someone who wants to know just to see if it is a good excuse or not. If someone can't accept other people's choices and can't accept it as the way it is.... too bad!

And this is for the girls who told me they didn't breastfeed:

You did what was the best for you and for your babies! You have nothing to hide and you certainly shouldn't feel judge (I know, they make formula feeder's life quite difficult with their harsh comments But who cares?)

At the end of the day, kids are healthy, are growing up and have nothing more of less then each other. What matters is the love, affection and attention we give to them.

Cheers,

Nil
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  #353  
Old 12.01.2011, 21:16
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Re: Breast feeding

Nil - I am so sorry, but your comments are not really fair. Swisspea does not in any way judge anybody's decision to chose not to breastfeed- just making the point that it is EXTREMELY rare for women not to be physically ABLE TO- and she gave good examples she knows.
Health professionals have to give the best MEDICAL advice, based on medical and scientific facts, they would be failing in their duty if they did not. And the facts are very clear: breastfeeding, even for a short time, has been proven absolutely to be the best for a baby, for many reasons she explains clearly.
Which in no way takes away the right of a mother to chose. It is absolutely important though, that this is an INFORMED choice, based on clear medical evidence, over many many years of study all over the world.

Being a new mum is not easy - and one is bombarded with advice from all sides, often conflicting. I remember that so clearly. My daughter had huge problems breastfeeding her first child, but the second one was a doddle. At the end of the day (or sometimes a very long night) - all mums just decide to get on with it and do their very best, somehow. Good luck to you all new mums.
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Old 12.01.2011, 21:47
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Re: Breast feeding

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Nil - I am so sorry, but your comments are not really fair. Swisspea does not in any way judge anybody's decision to chose not to breastfeed- just making the point that it is EXTREMELY rare for women not to be physically ABLE TO- and she gave good examples she knows.
Health professionals have to give the best MEDICAL advice, based on medical and scientific facts, they would be failing in their duty if they did not. And the facts are very clear: breastfeeding, even for a short time, has been proven absolutely to be the best for a baby, for many reasons she explains clearly.
Which in no way takes away the right of a mother to chose. It is absolutely important though, that this is an INFORMED choice, based on clear medical evidence, over many many years of study all over the world.

Being a new mum is not easy - and one is bombarded with advice from all sides, often conflicting. I remember that so clearly. My daughter had huge problems breastfeeding her first child, but the second one was a doddle. At the end of the day (or sometimes a very long night) - all mums just decide to get on with it and do their very best, somehow. Good luck to you all new mums.
Odile, I respect a lot your opinions. I believe that some of her comments were intrusive and inapropriate. I answered with this in mind. I am not angry, nor insulted. I am just having enough to have to give a reason, to have to explained myself.

Many girls came to me since I spoke out loud on bottle feeding. They are not comfortable to join the discussion because of this stigma made on them for not breastfeeding. How freaking sad is that!!!

Yes we know that breast is the best, but thankfully it isn't the only option and formula isn't the devil. It is a great product. Most of my generation in my country grown up with it. Today's formula is even better than before.

When a woman takes the decision to breastfeed or formula feed, it is her own decision. She is doing what is best for her and the baby with all the infos available. We have to give her those informations and let her decide.

I am sick and tired to ask a question about bottle feeding and to finish in a discussion like I am having right now because someone feels the need to ''educate'' me. Can we just ask questions without having the breastfeeding police jumping on us at every single opportunity?

Difficult to ask me to be fair when someone isn't fair with me asking a question about the devil formula....

I asked a question to get an answer on that question, not to get a speech!
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Old 12.01.2011, 21:53
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Re: Breast feeding

My opinion is: Its better to breastfeed but if you cant then you just dont. What are you supposed to do?

If you can breastfeed and you dont want to then thats fine. You shouldnt need to explain yourself to others.
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Old 12.01.2011, 21:57
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Re: Breast feeding

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My opinion is: Its better to breastfeed but if you cant then you just dont. What are you supposed to do?

If you can breastfeed and you dont want to then thats fine. You shouldnt need to explain yourself to others.
Amen Sister, That my philosophy! Each their own, live and let live.
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Old 12.01.2011, 21:57
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Re: Breast feeding

I respect that Nil. I truly believe Swisspea did not give a speech, nor made any judgement, really. Any health professional would give the same advice, it is their job, and not an easy one either.

Mothers are free to make their choice, of course, without having to 'explain' themselves. It would however be better perhaps not to state 'I can't' unless it can be substantiated. If there are no real medical reasons, just say 'I won't' and that is fine.

Bonne chance to you and all new mums, whatever you decide.
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Old 12.01.2011, 22:04
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Breastfeeding / Bottle feeding split thread

Dear mods,

Could we split this subject in 2 distincts topics?

A bottle feeding thread could be about that, bottle feeding. Without having a question turning onto a whole debate at each time.

Thank you for your consideration.

Nil
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Old 12.01.2011, 22:21
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Re: Breast feeding

Odile- i agree that breastfeeding is extremely rare not to be possible, but it isn't so rare for women not to be able to do it.. i mean as in mentally being able to handle it or finding it physically not something they like the feel of. Everyone is different. I think a lot of women have many reasons why they chose not to breastfeed even if its non medical. For example i know someone who nearly cried coz they found it too sensitive and sore, others that couldn't handle the stress of the baby crying for food waiting for their milk to come in. It might sound silly, but the stress and joy of having a baby shows differently in all of us.

Nil- theres a natural ingredient in peppermint tea that supposedly aids to stopping your milk supply.. however i do believe you might have to drink quite a bit for it to have some effect, but it has been proven that it does have an effect! Also I just thought i would share with you that when pregnant with my baby i was thinking i would bottle feed as all i heard about breastfeeding was the pain of it and i didn't want the hassle, i wanted to enjoy my baby!! however when my baby was born i was shocked at how she was lying on my tummy after the birth and suddenly wiggled around and found the breast herself!! it was so amazing! so i thought, well ok if thats what you want little one and i put up with 2 months of pain to get it right because i found this just warmed my heart that she wanted it! so maybe although informed at your choice, try to be open-minded too about every possibility and then after the birth do what works for you and go with that..with your gut feelings i mean.. and what feels right for you.. if bottle feeding is still for you then why not!! as you say, we have a choice and no matter what you do someone will always be against it because when theres a choice there is always a debate!!
so just be happy and enjoy your new bundle whatever way you are getting the food in
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Old 12.01.2011, 22:24
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Re: Breastfeeding / Bottle feeding split thread

I know there is medication you can get at the hospital if you know you are not going to breastfeed. Best is probably to discuss it with your doctor beforehand so they note it down in your files and can offer it to you directly after your baby is born.

Depending on your natural production you may not need it though. I never had such a strong production that milk stasis could have occurred even if I didn't breast-feed. But this is of course very individual. I went on a trip for 4 days without my son when he was 7-8 weeks and I think I expressed 3-4 times in total during that time and no problems at all.
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