Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Help & tips > Family matters/health  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #41  
Old 23.10.2008, 13:50
swisspea's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: From one side of lake Zurich to the other...
Posts: 6,020
Groaned at 35 Times in 25 Posts
Thanked 5,825 Times in 2,736 Posts
swisspea has a reputation beyond reputeswisspea has a reputation beyond reputeswisspea has a reputation beyond reputeswisspea has a reputation beyond reputeswisspea has a reputation beyond reputeswisspea has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Breast feeding

AH yes....those 'no child of mine...things'...

I aspire to the wisdom of my grandmother. She just turned 89, has twelve children (all still alive), 42 grandchildren (only one lost to SIDS about 30 years ago), more than 20 great grandchildren....

And I have NEVER heard her dish out parenting advice...even when directly asked, she tends to shrug in an old-lady kind of way...a mixture of 'all kids are different' and 'if I told you you'd still do it your way anyway!'...
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users would like to thank swisspea for this useful post:
  #42  
Old 23.10.2008, 13:53
majoe42's Avatar
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Lachen SZ
Posts: 35
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
majoe42 has no particular reputation at present
Re: Breast feeding

OUps the 'quotes' didnt work out properly. Sorry about that.

Quote:
This is so true! I was kicking myself when I stopped breastfeeding and entered the world of having to stand over a bottle of boiling water waiting for it to cool to sodding 40C before measuring out scoops of powder at 3.00 in the morning...



I did this too - a round trip to the little fella's nursery to feed him would have taken more than two hours each time so I was the office dairy cow hiding in the ladies loos expressing milk three times a day.
Quote:
View Post
That's the other option that some of us forget about. That you can express your milk, keep it for about 12hrs in the proper temperature. I know of a few mothers who did that and it worked pretty well until their babies were weaned properly.

I did this too - a round trip to the little fella's nursery to feed him would have taken more than two hours each time so I was the office dairy cow hiding in the ladies loos expressing milk three times a day.
I'm sorry though to hear that you had to do it in the loo. This is still a reality all around the world. The pantry in any office is still out of our bounds. =([/quote]
Reply With Quote
  #43  
Old 23.10.2008, 14:05
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: aarau
Posts: 252
Groaned at 12 Times in 3 Posts
Thanked 152 Times in 83 Posts
superted is considered knowledgeablesuperted is considered knowledgeablesuperted is considered knowledgeable
Re: Breast feeding

bitty......
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank superted for this useful post:
  #44  
Old 23.10.2008, 15:17
ljm ljm is offline
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Geneva
Posts: 754
Groaned at 7 Times in 4 Posts
Thanked 375 Times in 220 Posts
ljm has an excellent reputationljm has an excellent reputationljm has an excellent reputationljm has an excellent reputation
Re: Breast feeding

Quote:
View Post
I have to disagree with you personally. I'm sorry. I do both. I breastfed both of my girls, and am breastfeeding my third girl right now. After a few months i started using formula as well to be sure they had enough to eat before bed. Also, the breast pumps hurt me too much to use, so we used formulas every time my husband and i went on a date. We found it practical and they got the best of both worlds.
Yes, I understand this point. Of course everybody does what is best for them. And some breastmilk is better than no breastmilk. Combining breast and formula can work, but I think that it is rare to be able to successfully do both for a long time. Once women start supplementing with formula, breastfeeding most often ends very soon.

One common concern behind supplementing is what you mention: you do not know if the baby is getting enough milk. What is important to know is that formula is not a necessity, children can be exclusively breastfed and gain well on breastmilk alone.

But it is also true that breastfeeding is hard work, that the mother may feel like a 'feeding machine', that you are on a very short leash or you have to take the baby with you everywhere, even on a date.

For me it was also hard, there were moments when I just wanted to stop. When my daughter went on a 'nursing strike'; when I had mastitis; when my son bit me the hundredth time. But I continued. Part of it was that I just did not want to give them formula. Part was that I just wanted to give them what I thought was best and I put 'me' on the backburner.

I let my children wean themselves, and they did, although there were times when I seriously thought that they would end up asking for 'bitty' like the Little Britain character. But this, fortunately, never happened.
Reply With Quote
  #45  
Old 23.10.2008, 15:31
Tilia's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: ZH
Posts: 2,765
Groaned at 81 Times in 45 Posts
Thanked 2,649 Times in 1,194 Posts
Tilia has a reputation beyond reputeTilia has a reputation beyond reputeTilia has a reputation beyond reputeTilia has a reputation beyond reputeTilia has a reputation beyond reputeTilia has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Breast feeding

Hence, those that don't breast-feed are simply lazier than you and don't want the best for their kids?


Quote:
View Post
For me it was also hard, there were moments when I just wanted to stop. When my daughter went on a 'nursing strike'; when I had mastitis; when my son bit me the hundredth time. But I continued. Part of it was that I just did not want to give them formula. Part was that I just wanted to give them what I thought was best and I put 'me' on the backburner.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank Tilia for this useful post:
  #46  
Old 23.10.2008, 16:06
ljm ljm is offline
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Geneva
Posts: 754
Groaned at 7 Times in 4 Posts
Thanked 375 Times in 220 Posts
ljm has an excellent reputationljm has an excellent reputationljm has an excellent reputationljm has an excellent reputation
Re: Breast feeding

Quote:
View Post
Hence, those that don't breast-feed are simply lazier than you and don't want the best for their kids?
Absolutely not, to the contrary. I was too lazy to wash and prepare bottles.
Reply With Quote
  #47  
Old 24.10.2008, 14:03
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: OOO
Posts: 3,728
Groaned at 79 Times in 55 Posts
Thanked 1,683 Times in 1,017 Posts
Sada has a reputation beyond reputeSada has a reputation beyond reputeSada has a reputation beyond reputeSada has a reputation beyond reputeSada has a reputation beyond reputeSada has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Breast feeding

That grandmother of yours is a very very very wise woman !!!!!!!!
Nowadays parents seem to have fallen straight down from heaven with memories completely erased of having had a childhood and youth themselves .... !!!


Quote:
View Post
AH yes....those 'no child of mine...things'...

I aspire to the wisdom of my grandmother. She just turned 89, has twelve children (all still alive), 42 grandchildren (only one lost to SIDS about 30 years ago), more than 20 great grandchildren....

And I have NEVER heard her dish out parenting advice...even when directly asked, she tends to shrug in an old-lady kind of way...a mixture of 'all kids are different' and 'if I told you you'd still do it your way anyway!'...
Reply With Quote
  #48  
Old 25.10.2008, 14:19
PatriciaNBern's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Bern
Posts: 128
Groaned at 8 Times in 5 Posts
Thanked 73 Times in 39 Posts
PatriciaNBern has earned some respectPatriciaNBern has earned some respect
Re: Breast feeding

Here is a tip... My hebamme told me to call my insurance and ask what they cover with breast pumps.....


If i buy one... they will give me 50CHF for the pump.... Avent only costs something like 89CHF

If i rent an electric pump, they pay 2CHF a day. My hebamme is letting me rent to own.



If you are wanting a pump, call your insurance and ask what they cover first, i guess most insurances only cover one or the other.
Reply With Quote
  #49  
Old 26.03.2010, 13:54
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Nyon
Posts: 38
Groaned at 1 Time in 1 Post
Thanked 18 Times in 13 Posts
mw_ch has no particular reputation at present
Re: Breast feeding

Quote:
View Post
As much as I am in favour of breast feeding, as much am I in favour of a womans right to choose. Much of the information spread by La Leche League isn't undesputed for its scientific "facts". Breast feeding should be something one chooses to do, not something one is scared into doing.

I think this balance is in general very good in Switzerland and I hope it stays that way.
Very old thread, but just wanted to say that the information LA LECHE LEAGUE disseminates *IS* based on scientific evidence and breastfeeding mothers' experiences.

As for "right to choose", well, I believe in that too, but so long as formula companies tout their products as equivalent to breastmilk, women are not able to make an informed choice. And even with the WHO code on marketing of infant formulas, to which large companies did sign up, they continue to break the code.

What is best for mom and baby is:

- Mother's Own Breastmilk via nursing (which also benefits mother by protecting against cancer, helping uterus contract, etc. etc.)
- Mother's own breastmilk via bottle (pump and feed)
- Another mother's breastmilk via nursing (wetnurses)
- Another mother's breastmilk via bottle
- Infant milk substitutes

La Leche League "facts" can be found here: http://www.llli.org
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users would like to thank mw_ch for this useful post:
  #50  
Old 26.03.2010, 16:34
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 3,466
Groaned at 17 Times in 15 Posts
Thanked 1,992 Times in 1,185 Posts
CH_Me has a reputation beyond reputeCH_Me has a reputation beyond reputeCH_Me has a reputation beyond reputeCH_Me has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Breast feeding

Quote:
View Post
Very old thread, but just wanted to say that the information LA LECHE LEAGUE disseminates *IS* based on scientific evidence and breastfeeding mothers' experiences.

As for "right to choose", well, I believe in that too, but so long as formula companies tout their products as equivalent to breastmilk, women are not able to make an informed choice. And even with the WHO code on marketing of infant formulas, to which large companies did sign up, they continue to break the code.

What is best for mom and baby is:

- Mother's Own Breastmilk via nursing (which also benefits mother by protecting against cancer, helping uterus contract, etc. etc.)
- Mother's own breastmilk via bottle (pump and feed)
- Another mother's breastmilk via nursing (wetnurses)
- Another mother's breastmilk via bottle
- Infant milk substitutes

La Leche League "facts" can be found here: http://www.llli.org
Sorry, but i'd give my baby formula over someone else's breastmilk any day. It needs to be screened for diseases too.

What's best for mum and baby is baby being fed and satified and mum not exhausted out of her mind from needing to feed every hour because she doesn't have enough milk. I really don't think that many people switch to formula because they read on the packet that formula is better for their baby than breastmilk.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank CH_Me for this useful post:
  #51  
Old 26.03.2010, 16:36
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Zug
Posts: 50
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 8 Times in 7 Posts
sunflower76 has made some interesting contributions
Breastfeeding, the sweetest link between me and my baby

What a lovely experience, it is so nice to be that close to your baby. Breastfeeding yes, YES, YES!
Reply With Quote
  #52  
Old 26.03.2010, 17:06
ljm ljm is offline
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Geneva
Posts: 754
Groaned at 7 Times in 4 Posts
Thanked 375 Times in 220 Posts
ljm has an excellent reputationljm has an excellent reputationljm has an excellent reputationljm has an excellent reputation
Re: Breast feeding

Quote:
View Post
Sorry, but i'd give my baby formula over someone else's breastmilk any day. It needs to be screened for diseases too.

What's best for mum and baby is baby being fed and satified and mum not exhausted out of her mind from needing to feed every hour because she doesn't have enough milk. I really don't think that many people switch to formula because they read on the packet that formula is better for their baby than breastmilk.
Breastmilk banks exist in many countries and yes, the donors are screened. It is interesting that you automatically assume that another woman's milk would be dangerous and that formula would be perfectly safe. Do you know that formula recalls are quite common because it gets contaminated with bacteria or because of some production line fault it ends up having too much iron or salt or too little of important nutrients?

The overwhelming majority of women, with very few exceptions, can produce enough milk if they adopt the right technique and get adequate support. It was general complacancy about formula that brought us to where we are now -- an apathetic attitude to breastfeeding and complacancy about breastmilk substitutes.

Many women switch to formula because they are successfully persuaded by formula companies that breastmilk is only marginally better, if at all. Just look at their advertisements -- it is all about how great their product is and the message about WHO recommendations on exclusive breastfeeding is written in tiny print and I would guess that it gets effectively lost in the process.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank ljm for this useful post:
  #53  
Old 26.03.2010, 17:27
Carlos R's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Roundn'about Basel
Posts: 7,237
Groaned at 105 Times in 95 Posts
Thanked 9,933 Times in 4,177 Posts
Carlos R has a reputation beyond reputeCarlos R has a reputation beyond reputeCarlos R has a reputation beyond reputeCarlos R has a reputation beyond reputeCarlos R has a reputation beyond reputeCarlos R has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Breast feeding

Quote:
...I was kicking myself when I stopped breastfeeding and entered the world of having to stand over a bottle of boiling water waiting for it to cool to sodding 40C before measuring out scoops of powder at 3.00 in the morning
What - no microwaves available?

Quote:
View Post
... Also, breastfeeding can provide comfort to sick or distressed toddlers so it has a psychological benefit as well.
Really? Do you have evidence for this? My understanding was that the benefits were from close contact - something that can be achieved by either parent if using a bottle/formula.

Quote:
View Post
...no one should be made to feel guilty for not breastfeeding as long as they made an informed choice. Which, I may add, is sadly often not the case.
Oh, but they are made to feel guilty and failures by La Leche et al. I would even reverse your comment and say that pro-breasters tend to be as sympathetic and informed (of people's reasons for using bottles) as pro-lifers in my experience.

Here's an example of what I mean:

Quote:
View Post
The overwhelming majority of women, with very few exceptions, can produce enough milk if they adopt the right technique and get adequate support. It was general complacancy about formula that brought us to where we are now -- an apathetic attitude to breastfeeding and complacancy about breastmilk substitutes.

Many women switch to formula because they are successfully persuaded by formula companies that breastmilk is only marginally better, if at all. Just look at their advertisements -- it is all about how great their product is and the message about WHO recommendations on exclusive breastfeeding is written in tiny print and I would guess that it gets effectively lost in the process.
A little off topic, but just like most women should give birth without C-sections. Those that don't are just too posh to push, eh? The failures! The shame! How can they consider showing themselves in public... AND she's using a bottle. OMG sterilise her

Back to formula. My recollection is not of formula companies hanging around my wife during the recovery period, but rather an overbearing breastfeeding advisor who provided little or no help other than "you must keep trying".
__________________
Never let right or wrong get in the way of a good opinion
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank Carlos R for this useful post:
  #54  
Old 26.03.2010, 20:13
ljm ljm is offline
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Geneva
Posts: 754
Groaned at 7 Times in 4 Posts
Thanked 375 Times in 220 Posts
ljm has an excellent reputationljm has an excellent reputationljm has an excellent reputationljm has an excellent reputation
Re: Breast feeding

Quote:
View Post
...Oh, but they are made to feel guilty and failures by La Leche et al. I would even reverse your comment and say that pro-breasters tend to be as sympathetic and informed (of people's reasons for using bottles) as pro-lifers in my experience...

...My recollection is not of formula companies hanging around my wife during the recovery period, but rather an overbearing breastfeeding advisor who provided little or no help other than "you must keep trying".
I have not personally encountered anyone forcing women to breastfeed at a gunpoint. 'Pro-breasters', as you call them, have few financial incentives to aggressively promote breastfeeding. Compared to Nestle, for example.

Your wife had a bad and unprofessional lactation consultant. My view is that it is not any individual woman's fault if breastfeeding fails, but it is a pity that it happens so often.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank ljm for this useful post:
  #55  
Old 26.03.2010, 20:29
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Ticino & London
Posts: 1,969
Groaned at 165 Times in 89 Posts
Thanked 1,132 Times in 622 Posts
Cashboy has a reputation beyond reputeCashboy has a reputation beyond reputeCashboy has a reputation beyond reputeCashboy has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Breast feeding

Quote:
View Post
Hence, those that don't breast-feed are simply lazier than you and don't want the best for their kids?
I rejected my mother's milk and was weaned on Carnation Milk (Evaporated Milk). Maybe I can use that as my excuse for my behavioural problems
Reply With Quote
  #56  
Old 26.03.2010, 20:38
Rangatiranui's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Baden region
Posts: 2,169
Groaned at 14 Times in 13 Posts
Thanked 2,437 Times in 1,074 Posts
Rangatiranui has a reputation beyond reputeRangatiranui has a reputation beyond reputeRangatiranui has a reputation beyond reputeRangatiranui has a reputation beyond reputeRangatiranui has a reputation beyond reputeRangatiranui has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Breast feeding

Quote:
View Post
The overwhelming majority of women, with very few exceptions, can produce enough milk if they adopt the right technique and get adequate support.
The woman i shared a room with with kid 2, had her husband in tears when they were discussing "giving up breast feeding on day 2". It was sooo hard for all 3 involved the first time around.
Her "support" consisted of the nurses holding off the formula until they thought the baby was hungry. They of course had a number of other patients too.

I have to date, breastfed for... naw thats too much information for you guys.. but anyway - if your heart isn't in it, there is no point in struggling through it.

Quote:
View Post
A little off topic, but just like most women should give birth without C-sections. Those that don't are just too posh to push, eh? The failures! The shame! How can they consider showing themselves in public... AND she's using a bottle. OMG sterilise her
I know you mean this with your tongue firmly wedged in your cheek. I just wanted to reiterate that for those out there with English as one of their lesser languages. (He is joking.)

A lot of mums take a long time to come to terms with, or to realise that if they didn't have a c section, they or the kid may have died. It may have been as "little" as the babies head at slightly the wrong angle. Noone will know. But it is better to have a live mum and kid than.. not.
__________________
11. Knowing deep down that you gave your dreams a fair chance. – Most of the time the only difference between a dream that came true and one that didn’t, is a person who wouldn’t give up and one who did.

Last edited by vwild1; 28.03.2010 at 11:07. Reason: Merged 2 successive posts into 1
Reply With Quote
  #57  
Old 26.03.2010, 20:52
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Nyon
Posts: 38
Groaned at 1 Time in 1 Post
Thanked 18 Times in 13 Posts
mw_ch has no particular reputation at present
Re: Breast feeding

Quote:
View Post
What - no microwaves available?

Back to formula. My recollection is not of formula companies hanging around my wife during the recovery period, but rather an overbearing breastfeeding advisor who provided little or no help other than "you must keep trying".
I opened a can of worms but have to reply to the above.

If you didn't see formula companies hanging around, then you just didn't notice.. things are very subtle. It's not a person, it's free samples, logos on the "Baby on Board" car sign you got in the mail, pictures of formula fed babies with happy fathers looking on with a photo on the same page of a tired mom, sans wedding ring and a father looking distant, while the mother "breastfeeds", "breast is best" as part of their marketing (this isn't required, this is what the formula companies have decided to say as it makes formula seem "next best" when really it is "worst" option), commercials saying "when breastfeeding fails, when you're too tired to feed, try xxx ".

There is a WHO code on infant formula marketing (from the 80s) and it's there for a reason. Here's the code: http://www.who.int/nutrition/publica...de_english.pdf
and more info on why marketing formula is problematic: http://www.babymilk.nestle.com/

Here's an article about more recent proof of marketing issues:
http://www.toronto.ca/health/breastf...port/index.htm
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank mw_ch for this useful post:
  #58  
Old 26.03.2010, 20:54
amaraya's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: lausanne
Posts: 2,241
Groaned at 20 Times in 9 Posts
Thanked 2,845 Times in 1,204 Posts
amaraya has a reputation beyond reputeamaraya has a reputation beyond reputeamaraya has a reputation beyond reputeamaraya has a reputation beyond reputeamaraya has a reputation beyond reputeamaraya has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Breast feeding

Quote:
View Post
The woman i shared a room with with kid 2, had her husband in tears when they were discussing "giving up breast feeding on day 2". It was sooo hard for all 3 involved the first time around.
Her "support" consisted of the nurses holding off the formula until they thought the baby was hungry. They of course had a number of other patients too.

I have to date, breastfed for... naw thats too much information for you guys.. but anyway - if your heart isn't in it, there is no point in struggling through it.
i agree it's not worth starving the baby and frustrating the mama for, that's for sure. but it's not always a matter of your heart being in it. i was still feeding my son when we were visiting my family in costa rica and a cousin of mine just had a baby and was having such a time getting the little one to latch on. he just couldn't do it and she was getting frustruated. there, it's normal to breastfeed other babies, especially if it's family. i took the little one and he ate. but, i was experienced and calm- after a few minutes we put him back on her breast and he latched on almost effortlessly. sometimes frustruation and inexperience can be really difficult for new mama's and babies alike. it's often a bit of a struggle for most new mom's in the beginning, but the support can make all the difference.

but why make a little baby stay hungry (esp. a newborn?) instead of giving a bit of formula? that just seems cruel.
__________________
'there isn't enough of anything as long as we live.
but at intervals a sweetness appears and, given a chance prevails'
Reply With Quote
  #59  
Old 26.03.2010, 21:07
Rangatiranui's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Baden region
Posts: 2,169
Groaned at 14 Times in 13 Posts
Thanked 2,437 Times in 1,074 Posts
Rangatiranui has a reputation beyond reputeRangatiranui has a reputation beyond reputeRangatiranui has a reputation beyond reputeRangatiranui has a reputation beyond reputeRangatiranui has a reputation beyond reputeRangatiranui has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Breast feeding

i don't just mean heart - i mean the whole sher-bang. If it doesn't work, don't bust your gut over it. And certainly don't feel guilty about it(!)

Some C-section drugs (i have heard) make it more difficult sometimes, misaligned jaw of baby, stress, whatever.
Reply With Quote
  #60  
Old 26.03.2010, 21:11
amaraya's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: lausanne
Posts: 2,241
Groaned at 20 Times in 9 Posts
Thanked 2,845 Times in 1,204 Posts
amaraya has a reputation beyond reputeamaraya has a reputation beyond reputeamaraya has a reputation beyond reputeamaraya has a reputation beyond reputeamaraya has a reputation beyond reputeamaraya has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Breast feeding

Quote:
View Post
i don't just mean heart - i mean the whole sher-bang. If it doesn't work, don't bust your gut over it. And certainly don't feel guilty about it(!)

Some C-section drugs (i have heard) make it more difficult sometimes, misaligned jaw of baby, stress, whatever.
ok- i misunderstood! that's for sure. breastfeeding is great, really great. but it's a small part in the rest of the life of the child. it may have wonderful results in the future health of the baby but there are lot's of things that do.

i agree- i know plenty of people who didn't breastfeed, for whatever reason, and have faced judgement by others because of it. in the end a happy mami and a happy baby are the most important thing!
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
breastfeeding




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Breast feeding at 8 !! Maple Leaf General off-topic 41 12.09.2010 19:48
Feeding the kids Swiss food Galatea Family matters/health 23 06.11.2009 13:25
Breast pump rental Zurich swiss_in_training Family matters/health 13 28.08.2008 21:32
Bird feeding Colonelboris Daily life 11 13.04.2007 13:22


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 12:51.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0