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Old 15.12.2008, 07:34
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should I start over as single mom in CH?

Hello all,

I am now a single mom who (after finding out her american husband of 16 years was having a long term affair) left my very dishonest husband and switzerland to go back to the US and live. My soon to be ex remained in swtizerland with his lover (who is also married with children).

I have been back in the US living with our two small children for one year now but am considering moving back to switzerland because (1) financially it is better for me since public schooling is very good and free there and (2) I miss europe and my friends there.

I am wondering what opinions are regarding life as an expat single mother? Are there any single parents out there who can tell me what it's been like to live in CH?

Here I have my mom who helps a lot but there I would have no family. I understand that I would keep my permit B after the divorce so would be able to work (assuming i can find a job after staying home all these years.)

What would you do if you were me? I suppose I am asking for opinions, feedback, etc. I am not sure where I should start over.

Best, SMinSF
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Old 15.12.2008, 08:13
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Re: should I start over as single mom in CH?

Stay in the U.S.; it's very difficult being single mother here.
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Old 15.12.2008, 08:21
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Re: should I start over as single mom in CH?

How old are the children ? - will your ex have regular time with them, or are you hoping to cut him out of the relationship ? What will your financial position be - are you likely to get some serious assets from the divorce, or will you be left without much ? Where will you have the most emotional/social support ? What is your longer term career goal and where are you most likely to fulfil that ?

These are all questions to be asked...

Also, have you sorted out child-support and divorce finances...because these will also make a big difference - from friend's experiences I'd say you only really get one good chance at getting the most from the situation, and after that you are likely to spend the rest of your life *wishing* you had gone for more money for the sake of the children...

Also, already, your kids are losing out to your ex - if she has other children - and will your ex take any responsibility for child-care or will you be stuck with having to organise that as well (eg. if you are at work, and one of your children is ill and has to be picked up from school, who will have to do that ?)

you don't have to answer these questions here on the forum...they are just things to consider...
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Old 15.12.2008, 19:00
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Re: should I start over as single mom in CH?

Thanks to J P-L and swisspea for your input.

Jpl, I assume you are a single mother/father also? I read that you are french american so I assume you have lived in both places as well so I would love more input from you.

What is it about CH that is *more* difficult than the US? I am looking for specifics if you can think of any. I don't have much family or support here or there. My parents are here but they are elderly. But I have more friends there because I have been living in europe for so long.

Swisspea, those are all excellent questions. I know you are not looking for answers but are posing questions to consider. I have to say that I don't know the answers to some of them yet as we are just starting our divorce...but my ex makes a good salary so I am hoping to get a settlement that provides a decent standard of living-- although I realize it won't be as before. (The pie is fixed and expenses are higher.)

Part of it will be an emotional decision...I don't feel like I fit here in the in the US anymore..but maybe it will just take time before I feel at home here again.
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Old 15.12.2008, 19:15
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Re: should I start over as single mom in CH?

How long did you live outside of the US?
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Old 15.12.2008, 19:32
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Re: should I start over as single mom in CH?

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How long did you live outside of the US?
That is a very good question!

And a pm is on the way.
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Old 15.12.2008, 19:45
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Re: should I start over as single mom in CH?

i am an expat and a single mom... i find it quite easy to live in CH as a single parent. no worries about security, i have a great network with friends, schooling is good (my kids go to a private school though) and i worked for a company while my children were small and started my own business now that they are a little more independent. i have no complaints about being a single mom in CH
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Old 15.12.2008, 20:28
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Re: should I start over as single mom in CH?

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Hello all,

I am now a single mom who (after finding out her american husband of 16 years was having a long term affair) left my very dishonest husband and switzerland to go back to the US and live. My soon to be ex remained in swtizerland with his lover (who is also married with children).

I have been back in the US living with our two small children for one year now but am considering moving back to switzerland because (1) financially it is better for me since public schooling is very good and free there and (2) I miss europe and my friends there.

I am wondering what opinions are regarding life as an expat single mother? Are there any single parents out there who can tell me what it's been like to live in CH?

Here I have my mom who helps a lot but there I would have no family. I understand that I would keep my permit B after the divorce so would be able to work (assuming i can find a job after staying home all these years.)

What would you do if you were me? I suppose I am asking for opinions, feedback, etc. I am not sure where I should start over.

Best, SMinSF
Hi SMinSF

There are a couple of things I don't understand.

Neither you or your ex to be are Swiss. So, presumably your children are not Swiss either. On what grounds do you think that you will retain your B-permit after the divorce? And I put retain in italics because, theoretically on a B-permit if you are out of the country for more than 6 months it becomes invalid.

I would be interested to know if there are exceptions. What is your source for this info?
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Old 16.12.2008, 00:02
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Re: should I start over as single mom in CH?

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Hello all,

I am now a single mom who (after finding out her american husband of 16 years was having a long term affair) left my very dishonest husband and switzerland to go back to the US and live. My soon to be ex remained in swtizerland with his lover (who is also married with children).
So you just took the kids and left and your husband didn't say a word? It sounds like you had somewhere to live, so why didn't you just let your husband move out and continue living here? Why did you decide to leave in the first place?

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I have been back in the US living with our two small children for one year now but am considering moving back to switzerland because (1) financially it is better for me since public schooling is very good and free there and (2) I miss europe and my friends there.
If you receive child support, that money will go a lot further in the US than in Switzerland.

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Here I have my mom who helps a lot but there I would have no family.
So does this mean that your husband does not want to have anything to do with his children? If that is the case, then I think you should stay where you are. If you are already living in the US for a year I doubt you could return to Switzerland.

Starting over is never easy so choose the place where you will have the least hurdles, such as difficulty finding a job, availability and cost of daycare and where being a single mom is less of a hardship.

A lot of expats who return home don't feel at home. Repatriation is sometimes more difficult than relocating in the first place. It takes time to adjust to what was once familiar. I am sure you'll get there.
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Old 16.12.2008, 07:10
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Re: should I start over as single mom in CH?

Hi,

Firstly my sympathies with regard to your marriage situation. To be betrayed by somebody you trusted for all those years must have been a huge shock which I hope you can eventually come to terms with.

You don't mention the ages of your children - but I assume they are already going to school or are about to start? The hows and whys of the residency / work permit aside, if you are going to work then you will need to know what support there is for working single parents with respect to childcare. One of the big topics on this forum is expat mums who are trapped, unable to work because of the school lunch and home times.

Also, if I was going to raise children by myself (and I think it is hard enough with two of you) I would want to have friends and family around - and I don't know what kind of setup you had in Switzerland.

I concur with another poster with regard to being an ex-expat. Moving back to your own country after a long period away can be as big a shock to the system as the original moving away was. I lived in the Netherlands / Italy for 5 years and when I moved back to the UK I expected to fit right back in. Wrong. What you don't realise is living away has changed your perspective - and the only people to whom you can relate for the initial period will be other people who have lived abroad. I eventually settled back in - but it was not long before I got itchy feet again.

Cheers,
Nick
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Old 16.12.2008, 10:56
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Re: should I start over as single mom in CH?

Will you be getting divorced in Switzerland? Are you still married to your husband?

There are lots of factors to consider here before you make the decision. I'm a single mum who receives no financial support from her ex. Feel free to pm me if you need any advice.

Sorry to hear about your cheating ex
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Old 16.12.2008, 11:05
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Re: should I start over as single mom in CH?

Have you talked with a Swiss lawyer? S/he may able to give you other things to consider.

Other places you may want to consider asking for advice:
Swiss social worker
U.S. embassy
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Old 16.12.2008, 11:13
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Re: should I start over as single mom in CH?

Hello all.

In answer to your questions, I lived aboad for about 10 years, six and a half years in france and three yrs in switzerland.

The reason why I believe I have a permit B still is that my ex was told by his company lawyer that if we divorced, I would keep my permit but that it would no longer be attached to his work. As we are not yet divorced, I believe I still have the right to have a permit b through my husband, even though I have not lived in CH now for one year.

I am not sure where to verify that. Any ideas?

I think your comments on repatriating are very true. I am having a very hard time adjusting to people here... Of course, I am more american than anything else, but have lived among expats from all over the world for so long, that I don't feel at home here. It sounds ridiculous, but people seem "too american" for me. I am not used to it. I realize with time I will adjust, but I ask myself, do I want to?

I am now living in one of the most expensive cities in the US-- San Francisco. Housing prices are comparable to those of switzerland. Public schools here in SF are dismal. CH might actually be less expensive than where I am living. My children are going to a private french school here which costs for the both of them 30K per year. If I were in CH, that cost would be covered by my soon to be ex's employer or I could just put them in the very good public schools there.

Why did I leave? Weeeellllllll, imagine this: after 16 years of marriage to someone I thought was my best friend and love of my life...I find out he has been having an affair for the past two years with a much younger version of me. He started the affair right around the time we moved from france to CH. It lasted throughout my pregnancy and birth of my younger daughter (I have two daughters, ages 8 and 3). My youngest was 6 months when I first found out. By the time I found out, he said he was "in love". We tried for one year to save the marriage, or, er, I should say, **I** tried. I found out a year later that he had been seeing her all along.

I did kick him out then. They moved in together. I was in shock. This could not be possible, I thought. My head was spinning. Not to sound too dramatic, but I was simply unable to function and parent my girls I was so upset. I think I became "mentally ill" temporarily because of all the gas-lighting he had done to me over the past year. "You have to trust me", he'd say before I found out the last time that he had been continuing to see this other woman. I am ashamed to say that I remember hiding from my daughters in the closet, just sobbing and unable to get up off the floor. It was an awful, awful time.

Finally, a close friend of mine there told me "go home". So I did. I got a letter from him (just in case later he might claim that I stole the kids) saying I had permission to take the kids. He happily wrote and signed the letter because he was finally living his dream of "discovering" his affair partner. I packed up as much as I could in a few suitcases and left everything there.

When I arrived here in SF, part of me was waiting for him to call, saying he missed the family. when he finally called, he said he wanted me to come back so that he would not have to fly back and forth between his girlfriend and his kids. Forget that. I did not want to expose my kids to his chaos. I decided to stay here and rent an apartment.

Honestly, I am happy to be away from him...but I think with time I will care less and less what crazy things he does. I have come to believe he is in the midst of a major mid-life crisis. As for his girlfriend, i understand that they break up and get back together frequently. That's a big negative for me...that she will be part of the equation. I like having distance from that situation.

But the question for me is; independent of him...where do I want to start over? I miss europe, I miss my friends there. Where do I fit in? Which is a better quality of life for the children and I? Is it better or worse for the children to have their father around? (It's sad that I even have to pose this question.)

Neither place is ideal. Neither place is easy. I am not looking for quick fixes. I realize that being a single mother is very very difficult. I've lived it now for a year-- so I know.

That's the soap opera I am living. Thanks for listening and thanks sincerely for all of your input. It's making me think.
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Old 16.12.2008, 11:29
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Re: should I start over as single mom in CH?

I am so sad to hear of pain. Hang in there. You are a strong person, and you have been through a lot. You have the courage to ask for help and are willing to listen and that should be recognized and commended.

You are not mentally ill, you are pained. Its normal to be hurt and feel overwhelmed. I can understand stand why you went to the U.S. You needed support, love and understanding and that is perfectly o.k.

I hope you are seeing some type of counselor. Its important to tell your story, to be listened to, to have someone guide you and help you sort out your emotional turmoil. Please find someone if you dont have a person already, do NOT get caught in a trap of despair or depression. This is a challenging moment in your life and you need all the support you can get.

In addition, get a Swiss lawyer right away. You need to have someone on your side who is giving you the facts and not second hand information from a third party. It is very important that you are fully informed of your options.

You have a lot ahead of you, but dont forget to enjoy small moments with the kids as often as you can. When you look back you will be really glad you did.

Some days will be harder than others, but you just hang in there.

Best wishes to you and the kids.
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Old 16.12.2008, 12:43
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Re: should I start over as single mom in CH?

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Hello all.

I think your comments on repatriating are very true. I am having a very hard time adjusting to people here... Of course, I am more american than anything else, but have lived among expats from all over the world for so long, that I don't feel at home here. It sounds ridiculous, but people seem "too american" for me. I am not used to it. I realize with time I will adjust, but I ask myself, do I want to?
I completely understand what you are saying. You have different reference points. I recall years ago hearing a conversation between our kids and my nephew, who has never lived abroad. My nephew asked our kids if they had ever ridden a horse and the answer was no, which my nephew found quite odd. When our kids told him that they had been on a camel and an elephant, now he thought that was really odd.

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I am now living in one of the most expensive cities in the US-- San Francisco. Housing prices are comparable to those of switzerland. Public schools here in SF are dismal. CH might actually be less expensive than where I am living. My children are going to a private french school here which costs for the both of them 30K per year. If I were in CH, that cost would be covered by my soon to be ex's employer or I could just put them in the very good public schools there.
I hadn't even considered that your children are being schooled in French. I guess long term you should consider changing your children to a public school where the language of instruction is English. Surely there must be some schools that are okay. It is no different than here, some public schools are better than others.

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But the question for me is; independent of him...where do I want to start over? I miss europe, I miss my friends there. Where do I fit in? Which is a better quality of life for the children and I? Is it better or worse for the children to have their father around? (It's sad that I even have to pose this question.)

Neither place is ideal. Neither place is easy. I am not looking for quick fixes. I realize that being a single mother is very very difficult. I've lived it now for a year-- so I know.

That's the soap opera I am living. Thanks for listening and thanks sincerely for all of your input. It's making me think.
There is probably no right answer, no path which you take which down the road you might not look back and ask yourself whether that was the right decision.

It sounds like your soon to be ex has never put your children first and this will probably never change. If his current romance falls apart, and from your description it does not sound very solid, he might come crawling back to you, but it's hard to imagine you would want him back. The further away you are the less likely this will happen.

Good luck with whatever you decide.
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Old 09.01.2009, 20:07
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Re: should I start over as single mom in CH?

As others have mentioned, you really do need to talk to a lawyer asap. I don't know if this is for all cantons, but in Luzern, I was told that if you are both US citizens, and you are now a resident of California, California divorce laws will actually apply, not Swiss law. At least that's what my lawyer told me. (My ex and I are both American living in CH the entire marriage.)

Technically, you could/should have lost your B permit already, after being gone a year. (Even with a C permit, which I've had for six years, I was told I'd have to get special permission from the Gemeinde to leave for more than six months without risking losing it. They don't want people pretending to reside here when they don't.) Of course, so long as you are still legally married, you can, most probably, still get that reinstated easily enough, since your husband still has his permit and is still a resident. However, if your husband should file for divorce while you are a US resident, this could be in jeopardy.

Again, I would strongly suggest talking to a lawyer specializing in family law as soon as possible. For all I know, some of this is based only on Canton, so it might not apply to you. I just know I was rather surprised by some of the things I learned when I talked to a lawyer about a situation very similar to yours.
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Old 09.01.2009, 20:12
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Re: should I start over as single mom in CH?

On a personal note, I also wanted to say, your "husband" sounds like a toxic, dramatic mess-and-a-half, and you might be happier staying well away from that for as long as possible. He doesn't sound like he has his priorities in order at all, and, regardless of the other benefits, having him close-by might be the worst thing you could do to yourself. if you did decide to come back, I would certainly suggest moving to the other end of the country, at least. He sounds like a narcissistic nightmare.
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Old 11.01.2009, 21:20
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Re: should I start over as single mom in CH?

So sorry to hear of your situation. I'm an American married to a Swiss. I've lived here for 10 years and came here before meeting him. Three days before Christmas, he announced that he wanted a divorce (9 years of marriage). We have two children and it will be impossible for me to take them back to the US without a fight. So...I have decided to stay in US, move closer to him so that the children have easy access and continuing living my life.

On occassional trips back to the US, I have also found that I no longer fit in and prefer to live here. Good thing, in my case. But I also have a C permit and will be freer to work, assuming I find appropriate childcare to ease the school situation.

I got a lot of good information from www.binational.ch and the Sociale Services Internationale. Both groups are here to help binationals with issues like this. I don't know how much they can advise you since you are not married to a Swiss, but you might give them a try.

Good luck.
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Old 11.01.2009, 21:22
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Re: should I start over as single mom in CH?

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So...I have decided to stay in US, move closer to him so that the children have easy access and continuing living my life.
Oops...I should have said that I have decided to stay here in Switzerland! Yes! I will be much happier here.
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Old 11.01.2009, 22:15
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Re: should I start over as single mom in CH?

Hello

I couldn't help reply when I read what you have gone through. I am not a single mother or even divorced. But I am writing as a child of similar situiation. My Mother took me and my sister away from a Father who sounds similar to your ex.

I know she made the right decision now that I am an adult. When I was younger I thought it was the worst thing she could do, but now that I am old enough to understand and apprechiate the weight of the situiation. I know that making a fresh start was what we needed to make it. And I know that I would not be the person I am today if we had stayed with him or even around him.

And I think you need to consider what is best for your children, I believe that if you stay the only feelings they may have for their Father is resentment (just by the sounds of him). You need to consider first and formost what is best for your little girls. To be around a Father that finds it so easy to abandon his family and start again, and someone who found it so easy to give permission for his wife to move to the otherside of the world with his children. IF his girls were that important to him then he would have put up a fight, but as it was he was happy enough to let them and you go.

So in my opinion give your children that distance so that they can grow and be happy. Moving to the US and then having to move back to CH so quickly will only confuse and stress them. I know its hard for you, but do what is best for your girls. My Mom did and I know she made the right choice for us.
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