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Old 13.04.2009, 21:59
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Getting the wedding paperwork done

Hello,

I was reading some posts here and I noticed that a lot of the ones that mention wedding paperwork are quite incomplete compared to my personal experience. I'm going to write down what I've discovered here, and update it as we finish the process in the next few months.

Hopefully it will be useful to people. Sorry it is long, but the subtleties are important.

My experience is as an American, resident of California, born in Oregon, getting married in Commune di Blenio, Ticino.

1. Start early. No, really early. I started in January for a June wedding. Due to limits on paperwork "freshness" you cannot start more than 6 months in advance. But you should not try to do it without the full 6 months either.

2. Have confidence and persistence. Stay on top of every single step, and be ready to drop everything and do the very next step as soon as you find out. Your 6 months will be used up by other departments sitting on your papers, so don't waste any time yourself. In three separate instances, I received news that something wasn't right and turned around my response to the situation in 24 hours. It's 4 months on, and I still haven't finished. If I had wasted even a week along the way I doubt I'd be getting married.

3. The only opinion that matters is the office of civil status in the commune where you will be married. Switzerland is an intensely federalist society. You need to understand that, and respect it. The US embassy and the Swiss embassy do not have any control over what papers the commune will or will not accept, and they don't know. If someone outside of the commune gives you an opinion, verify it with the commune.

4. Negotiate. Explain that you understand what they are asking for and explain what works for you. My commune in Ticino said, "you have to go to the US Consular Agent Zurich and get that form because Zurich is responsible for Ticino". I asked if bringing a French form from the consular agent in Geneva would be acceptable, and they said yes.

5. Understand that your commune might have a very "localized" view of things (I wanted to put parochial, but that would be too pejorative.) They will tell you how they do it, and no matter what anyone else says, you've got to find a way to do it the way the commune asks you to. If a consulate says, "we don't know what that paper is that your commune is asking for, we only do it this way" (happened to me), you have to find a solution somehow. Negotiate, negotiate, negotiate. Going into it, my Swiss fiancée and I expected it to be clear, like riding CFF. Due to the devolution of authority to the commune level, no one knows what the heck is actually required, and every step of the way you are in danger of getting information that conflicts with what your commune wants from well-meaning people (including on this board).

6. US specific: The Swiss Embassy in the US delegates the work to the consulates around the country based on where you were born (so that they will be expert on the states in their region -- very swiss!). Call Washington DC and find out which Swiss Consulate around the US is responsible for your state of birth, then stop talking to Washington DC, they will only confuse you. Call your local consulate if you have questions, they know their side of it better than Washington DC does (for example, San Francsico Consulate were able to confirm to me that Oregon does in fact have long-form birth certificates, even though they are not listed on the State of Oregon website).

7. Birth certificate: There are two forms, the long form and the abstract (short) form. The long form is an actual image of the actual document done on the day you were born likely showing your mother's signature and the doctor's. Your commune may require it. Ask them. Your state might make it inconvenient or unclear how to order it, because in the United States, long form certificates are rarely used now. Don't give up, get the long form. Using VitaCheck (http://www.vitalchek.com/) makes it easy to get a long form, choose "marriage (intl)" and you get it automatically.

8. Legalization: many official websites talk about treaties between various countries that remove the requirement to get legalization, or "apostille". If you ask your consulate for help understanding this, they might say, "as of 1984, we no longer do those because of such and such treaty". Fine, but if your commune requires it, it's required, treaty or no. So just get it. There's no harm in having it, but finding out you need it too late would be really frustrating. The apostille comes from the part of your state government who gives notary publics their licenses. It is basically department A of your state saying to your commune that department B of your state has the right to sign birth certificates.

9. Affidavit: My commune gave me really confusing advice about the affidavit -- be careful and ask lots of questions to get it right. Because the US has no office of civil status, you have to swear you are not married. The way Swiss people get married is they get a certifcate of civil status that says "single" or "divorced" or whatever. That does not exist, so we have to swear it verbally and in writing. When you start the application to be married at the Swiss consulate you sign a scary piece of paper that threatens you with prison if it turns out you were married in another country. But that's not enough. You also have to make a declaration in front of an American notary. If you are inside of Switzerland, you go to the Consular Agent in Geneva or Zurich, or to the US Embassy in Bern, and they do it. Get an appointment well in advance for the embassy.

10. Proxies... if you are not in your US residence when you are doing all this, it's difficult. You have to visit the consulate in person to start the process. It is possible that the Swiss embassy where you are will be willing to proxy the documents for you -- to basically start your process and send the stuff on to the consulate that is responsible for your real residence. Again, negotiate. But in this case, they are doing you a favor, so be nice.

For me, here's how it has gone for me, including my mistakes and setbacks:

* order birth certificate using state website
* reorder birth cert because I put the wrong middle name for my mother
* get short form birth cert
* get affidavit from UK solicitor
* visit london, start application to be married, find out affidavit should only be done in US embassy or in California
* SFO consulate says "we do not recommend you go forward with short form, your commune has the right to reject it"
* order long form using vitalcheck.com (rush)
* legalize long form (family hand delivered to avoid postal delay/loss)
* SFO consulate finishes papers and sends them to London
* London has problem with payment, rush new money order to them
* tomorrow I go to Geneva
* Thursday I visit the commune with all the papers ready (cross fingers)
* June 6, I get married (cross fingers)

-jeff
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Old 13.04.2009, 22:01
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Re: Getting the wedding paperwork done

Awesome Jeff, thanks for taking the time to share this with us!
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Old 20.04.2009, 12:27
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Re: Getting the wedding paperwork done

I would like to edit my post, but I guess that is not allowed.

Here's some more information after the last round of meetings:

Less stamps required now: Two weeks ago there was a training class in Ticino where civil status employees learned that things like apostille and embassy legalization are no longer required. This is exactly what the embassies told me, but I had to wait for the news to reach Ticino for it to affect my process. (News travels to Ticino over mountain passes, on donkeys, and only arrives after the spring thaw, apparently. Did I mention havoing patience is useful?)

Get backups: For your peace of mind, at any step of the process where you can, get two of them made. For the State of Oregon, the first birth certificate costs $25 and the second $15, so it's not so bad. Hold the second one and pull it out as your ace in the hole when the system loses/delays/rejects the first copy. (It saved me, see below!)

Don't make photocopies yourself. A photocopy of something isn't real unless the person who made the photocopy puts a stamp on it saying, "I promise this is a true and correct copy" then initials it. When you give a document to the office of civil status, ask for a copy. They will make it and as a matter of habit, stamp it as true and correct, maintaining the validity of the document onwards. If you make the copy yourself at your house before coming, you don't get the stamp.

Here's my updated situation:
* all the papers traveling between SFO and Blenio no longer need all the magic legalization they just received
* the diplomatic post between London and Blenio is expected to take a month (!!) meaning that my papers with the marks they don't need will arrive too late anyway
* I'm sending my second copy of my birth certificate to Blenio right now to restart the process, hopefully it will be accepted in time.
* Getting the affidavit at the Consular Agent in Geneva was quick, easy, and was immediately accepted by the Blenio office, even though it was french/english, and not italian. Costs CHF 39, no appointment necessary, be careful of the restricted opening hours!

Moral of the story: Start early, keep patience and a sense of humor. Or at least black humor ("Dammit, my next wife is going to be American"). Also, never get married in Switzerland, always get married in the US and have the marriage recognized by Switzerland. It's got to be easier.

-jeff
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Old 20.04.2009, 13:15
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Re: Getting the wedding paperwork done

Holy crap.

I'm a Canadian, married a Swiss guy in Zurich - and all we needed was copies of our birth certificates (which we did order from Canada) and a letter from the Canadian consulate in Bern verifying that I am who I say I am and that I have never been married. The whole thing took 5 weeks because it took me 3 weeks to get an appointment at the consulate in Bern.

We had one appointment at the gemeinde where we went over everything, were asked a few questions and then the paperwork was sent.

We had an incredibly painless process for getting married, I can't believe you had to organize all of that stuff.
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Old 20.04.2009, 13:31
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Re: Getting the wedding paperwork done

I agree, I think it can be that easy, if you don't fall into any little traps along the way. Perhaps someone will read my posts and know how to miss at least one of them.

If I had to extract only two lessons, they would be:

* your choice of commune matters -- chose one for whom an international marriage is not an exotic adventure, but instead is daily business. It MUST be easier in Zurich and in Geneva.
* use vitalcheck to get your long form birth certificate

It does seem like I've hit every trap along the way, but I'm sure I'll come through it with my humor intact.

-jeff
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Old 20.04.2009, 13:34
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Re: Getting the wedding paperwork done

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It does seem like I've hit every trap along the way, but I'm sure I'll come through it with my humor intact.
It's great to hear you'll be able to laugh it off when all is said and done instead of it falling into that "Stupid Switzerland!!!" file.

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Old 20.04.2009, 14:16
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Re: Getting the wedding paperwork done

I thought the process had a time limit of only three months, not six? When we got married we went to see the authorities in November who accepted all the paperwork then informed us we had to be married within three months or we would have to start the process over again.

I am married to a Swiss, we married in the canton of Zurich but this was more than 7 years ago so perhaps things have changed now.
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Old 20.04.2009, 14:41
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Re: Getting the wedding paperwork done

Quote:
I thought the process had a time limit of only three months, not six? When we got married we went to see the authorities in November who accepted all the paperwork then informed us we had to be married within three months or we would have to start the process over again.

I am married to a Swiss, we married in the canton of Zurich but this was more than 7 years ago so perhaps things have changed now.
No, things are still the same in ZH (well, similar certainly).

I got married to my Swiss OH earlier this month and all my paperwork (birth certificate, Wohnsitzbescheinigung, Ledigskeitsbescheiningung etc) had to be less than six months old when we visited the Zivilstandsamt for the first meeting. When all the paperwork was accepted, we then had to be married within the next three months or start again from scratch.

There was a lot more paperwork needed for me than my wife (I'm an EU B permit holder) but it wasn't too much to deal with. The Zivilstandsamt were very helpful.
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Old 20.04.2009, 16:35
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Re: Getting the wedding paperwork done

this is all really great info and i thank you for this! does anyone have experience with marriage in lausanne with an eu (french) and non eu (american) marriage? any info is appreciated!
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Old 08.05.2009, 16:41
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Re: Getting the wedding paperwork done

Hello, time for another update on our progress.

We got it!

We had a scare because our two files met up in the system and caused some kind of Swiss bureaucratic system crash. But, keeping with everything I've experienced so far, they were super friendly and polite about telling us we'd screwed up the entire system.

A few days later they got it straightened out, canceling one and sending the other forward. Then we got the final draft of everything in the post, and signed it. We sent it back via post. They will now post the "banns", which is the marriage announcement asking people who have some evidence that we shouldn't be married to come forward. That's why your papers have to be ready at least 10 days before the wedding day, and why the permission to be married expires 3 months after the banns are posted.

They've also asked for copies of the passports of our witnesses.

-jeff
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Old 08.05.2009, 19:27
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Re: Getting the wedding paperwork done

Quote:
I thought the process had a time limit of only three months, not six? When we got married we went to see the authorities in November who accepted all the paperwork then informed us we had to be married within three months or we would have to start the process over again.
They told us the same thing, we need to get married after three months upon approval. Ours was approved February and I got my visa. Came here March got married April. My visa expired May 5. We got married early because of the time frame of three months.

Guess it didn't change much. My canton is SG.
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Old 14.05.2009, 19:35
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Re: Getting the wedding paperwork done

I might be able to help with the 3 months/ 6 months thing. Then again, I might just confuse things. Here goes:

Quote:
I thought the process had a time limit of only three months, not six? When we got married we went to see the authorities in November who accepted all the paperwork then informed us we had to be married within three months or we would have to start the process over again.
I went to the Zivilstandamt in Zürich in Helvetiaplatz yesterday.

They gave me a list of requisite papers for me and my fiancé. I'm UK, my fiancé non-EU.

I was told that, after their receipt of the papers, it could be as fast as two weeks to get them processed.

From that point, you have 3 months to get married or start the approval process again. Presumably because the piece of paper they will give us has an expiry date.

In any case, the Zivilstandamt will not accept papers that are older than 6 months.

If you like, I can post a PDF of the list of requirements they gave me.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf Vereinigtes_Königreich.pdf (548.9 KB, 655 views)

Last edited by BeastOfBodmin; 20.05.2009 at 18:46. Reason: Added an attachment on request.
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Old 14.05.2009, 20:15
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Re: Getting the wedding paperwork done

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If you like, I can post a PDF of the list of requirements they gave me.
Too late - we've been married 7 years.
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Old 14.05.2009, 21:22
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Re: Getting the wedding paperwork done

I have an "on-topic" but slighly different question. The cost of processing our paperwork for marriage was CHF1000. I parted with this kind of money with huge anguish and pain. Not that I am a stingy basta.d and cannot appreciate the profoudness of such ceremony but still the amount quoted is IMHO over the top.

I heard it thru the grapevine that one can get refunded some of this amount and I would like to hear it from your experience.
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Old 15.05.2009, 10:38
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Re: Getting the wedding paperwork done

I think the costs are one of those intensely cantonal and situational things.

There's a story here on the board about a very high fee in order to cover the legalization of a birth certificate from India. That person received an apology and maybe money back from the Swiss embassy in India.

I have spent close to CHF1000, but a lot of it was my own expenses, i.e. travel to my nearest embassy, post (and re-post and express-post and lost money re-express-post, etc, etc, etc), solicitor for a document that was ultimately refused, etc. The fees my commune charged me were very clearly summarized, though they nickel and dime you... every stamp and signature costs CHF 15, 20, 25 and it adds up in a hurry.

For us the total was GBP 95 at the Swiss embassy in London, followed by CHF 290 at the commune in Ticino. The CHF 290 includes 3 copies of the marriage paperwork, which are required by the Swiss embassy in the USA to apply for your "spouse of a Swiss" visa. (When I asked for 3 copies, the lady in the commune said, "but that's CHF 90 of paper! you want all that? why not just one." I showed her the visa requirements and she said, "wow, I had no idea we required all that. Oh well, more work for me!".

They told us the syndicat (the mayor who actually performs the ceremony) will charge us CHF 50 more too.

In summary, I'd say that budgeting CHF 1000 for papers is about right. But paying CHF 1000 direct to the commune or to the embassy is a rip off.

-jeff
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Old 18.05.2009, 18:53
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Re: Getting the wedding paperwork done

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Moral of the story: Start early, keep patience and a sense of humor. Or at least black humor ("Dammit, my next wife is going to be American"). Also, never get married in Switzerland, always get married in the US and have the marriage recognized by Switzerland. It's got to be easier.
Jeff, thanks for the post. I am still in the US and will be moving to Zurich in the summer with my girlfriend. Based on your story I am wondering if I should speed up our timeline on getting married and get it all done in the US before we move over there.

I can see how this might make the visa process easier, especially with regard to her finding work. - But, would a "Swiss" marriage be looked at more favorably if we are looking to stay in CH longer-term?

thanks
-Aaron
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Old 18.05.2009, 19:17
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Re: Getting the wedding paperwork done

I found a page on the Swiss embassy website explaining how to recognize a marriage that took place outside of Switzerland for the purposes of the Swiss system (i.e. to use the marriage to get a permit C for residence). The basic gist of it was the same as I found for getting married in Switzerland:

* the commune of the Swiss partner decides if the marriage will be legalized, not the federal government (so only ask them questions, no one else knows for sure)
* the same papers are required for recognizing a marriage as for entering into one. If the papers were not required by the country where the marriage took place, they have to be (re-)done for Switzerland and submitted alongside the foreign marriage certificate before the Swiss marriage certificate will be issued.

Bottom line is that there does not seem to be a "back door". The system is airtight, and if you happen to come from a country who's default paperwork system is slightly incompatible with Switzerland's, then you have to go through the hassle of rectifying the differences. The main difference between the US system and the Swiss system is that in the US we have no central agency that certifies your marital status. This gives the Swiss bureaucrats fits, and the solution is to make the affidavit that you are single. Another difference is that US marriage authorities will accept old birth certificates and short form ones. So you'd have to get all new birth certificates to recognize the marriage too, I bet.

-jeff
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Old 19.05.2009, 15:49
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Re: Getting the wedding paperwork done

Just to make an update on my previous query regarding the payment made to the council. Yesterday we went to a premarriage interview and we discussed further proceedings. Surprisingly, we were refunded almost slightly over the half of the amount originally requested (CHF1000) which is well over CHF500. Good news and that money can go to wedding dress and reception. It has all been well argumented in form of itemised billing and the offical explained carefully to us all the cost incurred. Confirmation of the non-EU documents cost them the most. So a bit of relief and more money in wallet.
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Old 26.05.2009, 09:05
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Re: Getting the wedding paperwork done

One more thing Prior the wedding ceremony it is advisable to pay a visit to your local Gemeinde (Community), where one of the spouses is already registered and inquire about all the papers required for your spouse's registration to become by law of community inhabitant at your apartment. Here is the list of documents:

1) Pass (x-permit)
2) 2 x Passfotos (2 x photos)
3) Mietvertrag (lesing contract from landlord)
4) Heiratsurkunde (marriage certificate)
5) Ausländerausweis (foreign ID)
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Old 13.06.2009, 17:26
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Re: Getting the wedding paperwork done

Hi Jeff
As you know lack of coordination of all three, the consulate of respective countries and the canton has been a nightmare.
Coming from a culture where families predominately prepare for marriage, were at the verge of saying may be it is not a wise idea to marry a Swiss spouse.
Your post on preparing to marry will put to ease all of us. We will be persistent till we succeed.
BBBernwala
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