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  #21  
Old 18.08.2009, 14:22
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Re: Divorce in Switzerland

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I think I must be blind to some things,
That's it! Your wife is a prisoner here. She sees divorce as her escape route to some better/even perfect/ life somewhere else with someone else.

She has nothing to fulfil her here - sadly it would be the same anywhere else, but doesn't realise this. The children do not help her situation I suspect, but rather confirm she is shackled to the home.

Probably a shrink would be as much help to here as mediation.

It is quite possible there is a 3rd party, this is usually shown in great motivation to get you out and 'him' in, whether in the marital home our a new 'love nest'...
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  #22  
Old 18.08.2009, 14:33
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Re: Divorce in Switzerland

A divorce is tragic for all parts and in most cases both parts find out soon enough that there is nobody waiting to give them a better outlook for the future. A mum finds out pretty soon that life alone with kids (in this case 3) is killing although she might have thought that she did all the work. A father as s provider finds out that providing only is heart breaking. I would do whatever it takes to save a marriage. First the lady should get some education. What is more boring than an uneducated partner? There is a wonderful place you can get education even without speaking the language. That is the London University. Log yourself in and you will see it is not expensive and there is a course for everyone. The support of this University is out of this world and it doesn't cost much. Anyway I think that the person that is bored has to change something because no partner is responsible for the entertainment of the other one. So evening school to learn the language. It is a pity that there is a wonderful world outside and she can't join in.
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  #23  
Old 18.08.2009, 14:35
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Re: Divorce in Switzerland

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That's it! Your wife is a prisoner here. She sees divorce as her escape route to some better/even perfect/ life somewhere else with someone else.

She has nothing to fulfil her here - sadly it would be the same anywhere else, but doesn't realise this. The children do not help her situation I suspect, but rather confirm she is shackled to the home.

Probably a shrink would be as much help to here as mediation.

It is quite possible there is a 3rd party, this is usually shown in great motivation to get you out and 'him' in, whether in the marital home our a new 'love nest'...
Ab Fab;

I think you are spot on.

Rene has provided everything but the wife feels totally trapped.
In fact Rene made the point that he earns the money and provides everything and she looks after the children.

The trouble is that unless she does something with her life it is not going to change.
It is actually a case of her being bored as opposed to Rene being boring perhaps.
However, I don't think divorce is the solution. She needs to do something with her life so she feels as if she is achieving something. I just think she doesn't sound the sort of person that will get up and do something.
She is the sort who ends up on Anti-depressants like 30% of females.
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Old 18.08.2009, 14:40
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Re: Divorce in Switzerland

Tja, the wife sounds like a real b*tch so, one can debate how valid this one sided view is.

What I find more worrying is that apparently a disgruntled women can cripple a man financially for life. I mean, is that true, paying 60 % of income to some woman you haven't seen for more than 5 yrs ?
I still remember my parents divorce. My mam asked for full support for me and my sister but did not want anything for herself. She felt that to be fully separated she needed to make her own income, stand on her own two feet as far as she herself was concerned.

If I would ever end up in a divorce situation you can be sure I'll quit working. I don't see the point of working but having nothing (I mean, 40%, come on !) to show for it.
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Old 18.08.2009, 14:41
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Re: Divorce in Switzerland

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A divorce is tragic for all parts and in most cases both parts find out soon enough that there is nobody waiting to give them a better outlook for the future. A mum finds out pretty soon that life alone with kids (in this case 3) is killing although she might have thought that she did all the work. A father as s provider finds out that providing only is heart breaking. I would do whatever it takes to save a marriage. First the lady should get some education. What is more boring than an uneducated partner? There is a wonderful place you can get education even without speaking the language. That is the London University. Log yourself in and you will see it is not expensive and there is a course for everyone. The support of this University is out of this world and it doesn't cost much. Anyway I think that the person that is bored has to change something because no partner is responsible for the entertainment of the other one. So evening school to learn the language. It is a pity that there is a wonderful world outside and she can't join in.
Yeah, a diploma, while learning a language, meeting other students, then try for a job...She will get a reality check and her selfworth will be fixed. Hopefully..Sounds like she is going through some major depression, the anger fits, does not really know what she wants. She needs to work and feel needed, rewarded. I bet she compares herself to other ladies who have successfully achieved something (being a housewife rarely feels like a big, gratifying achievement). I would not send her away, you do not know what wifes on solo trips do. Try not to feel hurt, fight for your family and rescue your love. Good for you wanting to do something about the situation. Once you get a counselor you will feel so relieved.
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  #26  
Old 18.08.2009, 14:41
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Re: Divorce in Switzerland

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She is the sort who ends up on Anti-depressants like 30% of females.
She should just realise that not everybody can have Victoria Beckhams life ....
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Old 18.08.2009, 14:50
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Re: Divorce in Switzerland

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Tja, the wife sounds like a real b*tch so, one can debate how valid this one sided view is.

What I find more worrying is that apparently a disgruntled women can cripple a man financially for life. I mean, is that true, paying 60 % of income to some woman you haven't seen for more than 5 yrs ?
I still remember my parents divorce. My mam asked for full support for me and my sister but did not want anything for herself. She felt that to be fully separated she needed to make her own income, stand on her own two feet as far as she herself was concerned.

If I would ever end up in a divorce situation you can be sure I'll quit working. I don't see the point of working but having nothing (I mean, 40%, come on !) to show for it.
Check out poor old John Cleese into todays papers. His wife got so much she is now richer than him! And 600k sterling for the next 7 years. And - AND - they don't even have any kids!!! Mr Cleese in timeless fashion has said about it "I got off lightly. Think what I’d have had to pay Alyce if she had contributed anything to the relationship".
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  #28  
Old 18.08.2009, 14:54
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Re: Divorce in Switzerland

She probably finds you boring just because you are all her life now and her life IS boring.
If you were happy before you came to Switzerland, and it is only in the last couple of years that she has been "brewing" this unhappiness, it might well be that she is depressed, blaming you for bringing her here (unconsciously or not). Maybe she finds you boring because you have adapted (through work and routine) to your life here (which many newcomers can consider boring) while she hasn't, because she hasn't looked for opportunities to settle in her new life.
Does she know other people? does she have a social network (through her children's friends, perhaps?)... in any case, I think she probably shouted "divorce" instead of shouting "I need a change"... because she might not see that you can help her to change.
Depression (if it is what she has) has an ugly face. People can tell you to go out and you don't want to. Even if going out is precisely what you need.
Perhaps you guys should sit down and discuss how to solve this. Maybe you can reach an agreement (if you still love her and genuinely want to help her through, not just for practical/monetary reasons). The agreement being that you will discuss again about divorcing in ONE year. However, in this year:
- she should enrol into a language course (or two! one in the evening, so she can go when you are with the kids, another one in the morning, with the kids)
- you guys could put the children in some sort of childcare for a few hours a week (I don't know the ages, I am assuming they are all very young, since you say that she's stuck at home with them), in which she can have some time for herself.
- get a babysitter every now and then, and take her out, reignite that flame, mate!!!
This is just a suggestion, because maybe what she resents from you is that you have your life (you say you work a lot), which it might not be terribly exciting, but at least you are already settled here and she's not.
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  #29  
Old 18.08.2009, 14:58
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Re: Divorce in Switzerland

Something else I don't get:

How can you claim someone is boring when they emigrated sucessfully to another country ? How can all the excitement of the move, exploring your new surroundings, trying different foods etc etc be boring ?

I wonder how she feels about people that never emigrated but just live in the same town their whole life ... ?
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Old 18.08.2009, 15:05
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Re: Divorce in Switzerland

Actually speaking of which, she recently started a language course to learn the local language. It is in the morning, twice a week, there is someone there to look after the kids so the moms can focus on the lessons. Maybe that helps in the long run, not sure. Apparently the local Kanton has realised that there are housewives out there, who have this problem.

And just for the topic I want to say that I am not trying to be a saint, or to make myself sound like one. I'm surely not. I'm simply saying how I feel, and what I have tried to do, what is important for me, what I see, etc. That's all. Furthermore I can say that she does a fantastic job in taking care of the kids and the household, the care and attention to everything is just overwhelming. Kids alway wear clean and ironed clothes, they always eat healthy homecooked meals, etc. Also I eat lunch and dinner at home every day, so I know. Apart from hating my guts, she is the most perfect wife anyone could hope for.
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Old 18.08.2009, 15:12
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Re: Divorce in Switzerland

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If you were happy before you came to Switzerland, and it is only in the last couple of years that she has been "brewing" this unhappiness, it might well be that she is depressed, blaming you for bringing her here (unconsciously or not).
I don't think that's it. She loves Switzerland, and she said she wants to stay here for the rest of her life. Even now when talking about the divorce, she says going back "home" is no longer an option, her home is here. I really do believe she is happy here, as in a country.

We had our fights also before we moved here, I think they are still the same, it's just that the results of those fights are getting more severe.
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  #32  
Old 18.08.2009, 15:14
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Re: Divorce in Switzerland

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Isn't the grass always green on the other side.....
Yes. And if the grass is greener on the other side, then water your garden better.
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  #33  
Old 18.08.2009, 15:21
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Re: Divorce in Switzerland

Before you make the ultimate step of divorcing: have a trial separation. Maybe afterward, everyone is convinced that staying together is boring but comfortable and practical.
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Old 18.08.2009, 15:22
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Re: Divorce in Switzerland

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Actually speaking of which, she recently started a language course to learn the local language. It is in the morning, twice a week, there is someone there to look after the kids so the moms can focus on the lessons. Maybe that helps in the long run, not sure. Apparently the local Kanton has realised that there are housewives out there, who have this problem.

And just for the topic I want to say that I am not trying to be a saint, or to make myself sound like one. I'm surely not. I'm simply saying how I feel, and what I have tried to do, what is important for me, what I see, etc. That's all. Furthermore I can say that she does a fantastic job in taking care of the kids and the household, the care and attention to everything is just overwhelming. Kids alway wear clean and ironed clothes, they always eat healthy homecooked meals, etc. Also I eat lunch and dinner at home every day, so I know. Apart from hating my guts, she is the most perfect wife anyone could hope for.
She does not hate you. She hates herself right at this moment. You just happen to be part of her.

Get your lunches at work, take her out a few times without the kiddos, take a train trip to Paris. Don't let her be perfectionist in her janitor/caterer/child-minder duties, I bet she is going nuts. Who cares for details, kids can be in nonironed clothes sometimes, as long as the pops are happy together. Now, go and sign up for some kinky hobby together. She probably thinks you are a perfect hubby too, minus the predictability...
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Old 18.08.2009, 15:54
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Re: Divorce in Switzerland

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Hi all,

Don't know where to start. I moved to Switzerland from a EU-country about 2 years ago with my wife and three kids. ...

She is a housewife, I am the working father...

Now the thing is anway that she wants a divorce ... The problem is just that does anyone know what would happen to her residence permit? We have the temporary 5-year permit, she doesn't have a job (at least not yet), so if we divorce, is she allowed to keep it?

Another concern is of course how will she be able to offer a decent living for herself and the kids. ...

So at the very least I want to make sure that she is financially well ... I am prepared to give them 60% of my net income at least for a while ... I think it would not be easy for her to get a job anyway (doesn't speak the language yet).

I really don't need much to live, but I also don't want to be stuck in this mess forever. ... But no woman would ever want to have me, if I pay 60% of my income to my ex-wife constantly...

Any hints/clues anyone? What can I do? ...

... I could understand divorce because of drinking problem, violence, cheating, or something. But just because she is bored????
I am not going to read the other replies now. What I have to say may be more useful if not influenced by miscellany.

I've condensed your posting for clarity.

First read this:
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/02/fashion/02love.html
(OK, it's a wife writing about her husband's mid-life crisis and his asking for a divorce and her parrying the matter, successfully as it turned out; and it may be too late to help you. But it's worth reading anyway.)

I have to assume that you, wife and kids all are EU citizens, formerly resident in an EU country.

Start with this Swiss document (I haven't found an English-language edition, this is the French one): http://bit.ly/18V8oO ("Les citoyennes et les citoyens de l’UE en Suisse"). You will need to decide under what status your wife (if she becomes an ex-wife) and children (and your custody rights and The Hague Convention (on child abduction etc.) could be relevant to where they have the right to live and where the custodial parent is required to keep them).

The forum deciding the matter of divorce is important to you. The matter of alimony and child support will be decided by the forum, most likely based on its own law. Until recently there was a rush to the English courts for that reason; now that English courts seem to recognise pre-nuptial agreements that may change, at least for some.

The only advice I can give is to find the best divorce lawyer you can afford. Don't use a lawyer just because some colleague or friend used him or her after an accident at work or in relation to a tax dispute. And be warned that the lawyer will want the divorce filed in his/her own jurisdiction because s/he makes more money that way. Your interests may be better served elsewhere.

And as a mentor told me nearly 50 years ago at the Legal Aid Society in Harlem (and never mind the NY Times article I linked to above) by and large one the bug of a divorce is in one of the spouses' ears it does not go away. The time for magnanimity is after the property and alimony and child support issues have been resolved in your favour.

Good luck.
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  #36  
Old 18.08.2009, 16:04
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Re: Divorce in Switzerland

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Apart from hating my guts, she is the most perfect wife anyone could hope for.
When do you think she started hating your guts?
Before you came to Switzerland etc etc
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Old 18.08.2009, 16:33
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Re: Divorce in Switzerland

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First read this:
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/02/fashion/02love.html
(OK, it's a wife writing about her husband's mid-life crisis and his asking for a divorce and her parrying the matter, successfully as it turned out; and it may be too late to help you. But it's worth reading anyway.)
What a wonderful piece of writing. Worth reading indeed!
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Old 18.08.2009, 20:01
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Re: Divorce in Switzerland

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First read this:
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/02/fashion/02love.html
(OK, it's a wife writing about her husband's mid-life crisis and his asking for a divorce and her parrying the matter, successfully as it turned out; and it may be too late to help you. But it's worth reading anyway.)
How interesting, I PMed the OP that same article...It's one of the deepest pieces of writing I've ever read in English.
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Old 18.08.2009, 21:05
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Re: Divorce in Switzerland

Rene, how are your nights? Are you sleeping? ...

I'm asking because I have met more than one man who in these kind of moments in life just can't sleep anymore ...
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Old 18.08.2009, 22:36
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Re: Divorce in Switzerland

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Yes. And if the grass is greener on the other side, then water your garden better.
Total Rubbish!
If you overwater the garden; the grass rots and dies.
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