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  #41  
Old 19.08.2009, 10:22
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Re: Divorce in Switzerland

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Rene, how are your nights? Are you sleeping? ...

I'm asking because I have met more than one man who in these kind of moments in life just can't sleep anymore ...
I've never had a problem with sleeping, also same thing now. The only problem is that I am currently sleeping on the sofa, without a pillow, blanket, or anything like that. And there's a church in the direction of our livingroom, about 100meters away, so the bells remind of themselves every 15 minutes. And still my wife complains that the sofa looks messy because I sleep on it. So sometimes I also use the floor, at least then I can have some peace.

Then of course the normal things like nosebleeds in the middle of the night (e.g. my son last night), "daddy, I gotta pee", the youngest one crying because she is thirsty (so I give her something to drink), the usual stuff. Normally I'm the one who does these things during the night, because unless my wife gets enough sleep, she is REALLY not nice.

So yeah, whenever I have the chance, I am able to sleep.

I also hear that many men in similar situations become alcoholics etc, but that's also not the case with me. If I'm sad or mad, I just don't want to drink. I only drink when I'm having a nice moment.

But thanks for asking anyway. And I must say I am totally surprised by the huge and immediate attention from all you guys, it really makes me feel better. Kind of gives the feeling that I am not alone with this, even though I am (of course).
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  #42  
Old 19.08.2009, 10:37
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Re: Divorce in Switzerland

I feel for you; sounds as if you are putting up with a lot.

I gather that you are now only there because of the children and financial situation?

Sleeping on the sofa puts the "Good sex Life" that you claimed before out of the window then?

So how long has this life style been going on for?

You state your youngest child is one year old; so the wife isn't suffering from Post Natal Depression is she?

How long has the wife been behaving like this?
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  #43  
Old 19.08.2009, 11:08
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Re: Divorce in Switzerland

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I've never had a problem with sleeping, also same thing now. The only problem is that I am currently sleeping on the sofa, without a pillow, blanket, or anything like that. And there's a church in the direction of our livingroom, about 100meters away, so the bells remind of themselves every 15 minutes. And still my wife complains that the sofa looks messy because I sleep on it. So sometimes I also use the floor, at least then I can have some peace.

Then of course the normal things like nosebleeds in the middle of the night (e.g. my son last night), "daddy, I gotta pee", the youngest one crying because she is thirsty (so I give her something to drink), the usual stuff. Normally I'm the one who does these things during the night, because unless my wife gets enough sleep, she is REALLY not nice.

So yeah, whenever I have the chance, I am able to sleep.

I also hear that many men in similar situations become alcoholics etc, but that's also not the case with me. If I'm sad or mad, I just don't want to drink. I only drink when I'm having a nice moment.

But thanks for asking anyway. And I must say I am totally surprised by the huge and immediate attention from all you guys, it really makes me feel better. Kind of gives the feeling that I am not alone with this, even though I am (of course).
I am no longer sure if I should feel sorry for you. I think all you are trying to do is to have a shoulder to cry on and you have had many since start of your post.
You sleep on the sofa without a pillow and blanket? Why??? Why just not get a pillow and blanket?? Because you want to feel sorry for yourself?
You sleep on the sofa and your wife complains about you making a mess on the sofa? Come on...... respect yourself.
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  #44  
Old 19.08.2009, 11:11
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Re: Divorce in Switzerland

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Actually speaking of which, she recently started a language course to learn the local language. It is in the morning, twice a week, there is someone there to look after the kids so the moms can focus on the lessons. Maybe that helps in the long run, not sure. Apparently the local Kanton has realised that there are housewives out there, who have this problem.

And just for the topic I want to say that I am not trying to be a saint, or to make myself sound like one. I'm surely not. I'm simply saying how I feel, and what I have tried to do, what is important for me, what I see, etc. That's all. Furthermore I can say that she does a fantastic job in taking care of the kids and the household, the care and attention to everything is just overwhelming. Kids alway wear clean and ironed clothes, they always eat healthy homecooked meals, etc. Also I eat lunch and dinner at home every day, so I know. Apart from hating my guts, she is the most perfect wife anyone could hope for.
Hi,

I think its all too easy to get isolated over here. She is taking a language course that is a step in the right direction. She will hopefully meet new friends and find some commonground with them.

I think maybe she is just very frustrated. Housewives just don't have the means to socialising with other people. I personally have found conversation is lacking. People say good morning to you at the school and that is pretty much it! How old are the kiddies? Maybe there are kids they could go and play with and give your wife the chance of having a coffee and getting to know the locals. What about hobbies? What does she like to do? I think if she sought out hobbies that she enjoyed she would not be so harsh on you, she probably has few people to speak to so when you get home from work she has to offload her stress with someone.

I have been here for ten months and although I love the place to bits I do get very lonely sometimes. My day seems to centre around getting the kids ready for school and running backwards and forwards for school activities. Being a Mum is really hard work, there is no start time and no stop time,its 24 hours a day.Im sure she misses her old lifestyle,friends, heck even shops she used to go to.

I am sure you are a very understanding hubby and it sounds like you are doing as much as you can to make her happy. I would not just lie down and accept this divorce. Its not what you want and why should your kids suffer it just because she is throwing tantrums all the time despite all your efforts. I would back off a little and maybe be a bit cooler with her. I would not offer her a financial package and just accept your marriage is over.I would also suggest maybe she sees a doctor,maybe there is a medical explaination for behaviour that once modified will make her feel better and treat you better.

I know there are always two sides to every story but I really think you have to look after yourself too, it takes two HAPPY people to make a marriage work, it sounds like you are both very stressed.She needs to treat you better too, Im sure you are a perfectly decent person.

Darcy
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  #45  
Old 19.08.2009, 11:16
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Re: Divorce in Switzerland

Rene,
1. some self-respect
2. some personal space in which you exist with your tastes, your opinions, your feelings

Once you've got that sorted out you will feel differently and she will react differently in consequence. Either positively or negatively.

You obviously still love each other but you've lost your way.

Start with the basics, no more sleeping on the floor. Find ways to feel good about yourself and about her and let it all take it's course. It doesn't mean you'll kiss and make up like in the movies, but a separation can be a success too.

As for ladies who fall for chaps with kids, I wouldn't worry about the future, it's not a problem. When you're attracted to a person, he/she could be green with pink polkadots, it doesn't matter !
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  #46  
Old 19.08.2009, 11:21
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Re: Divorce in Switzerland

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I am no longer sure if I should feel sorry for you. I think all you are trying to do is to have a shoulder to cry on and you have had many since start of your post.
You sleep on the sofa without a pillow and blanket? Why??? Why just not get a pillow and blanket?? Because you want to feel sorry for yourself?
You sleep on the sofa and your wife complains about you making a mess on the sofa? Come on...... respect yourself.
I wouldn't say it this harshly, but the main idea is true. If there's a time to stop being a doormat and impose yourself, it's now. I'm sure you care for your kids and are afraid it may backfire, but how could it possibly get any worse? She already wants the divorce and says so, your behaviour being her main complaint. So obviously acting like you did before isn't what she's looking for, but you seem to be continuing your usual behaviour patterns.
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  #47  
Old 19.08.2009, 11:22
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Re: Divorce in Switzerland

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I feel for you; sounds as if you are putting up with a lot.

I gather that you are now only there because of the children and financial situation?

Sleeping on the sofa puts the "Good sex Life" that you claimed before out of the window then?

So how long has this life style been going on for?

You state your youngest child is one year old; so the wife isn't suffering from Post Natal Depression is she?

How long has the wife been behaving like this?
I've considered already moving out somewhere nereby, maybe rent a studio. I could sleep there, spend some time there, and still visit the kids at least almost daily. They would for sure be wondering where daddy is, but maybe we could get around it by "daddy needs a lot of privacy for working" or something. But then again, paying something like a 1000CHF a month extra for not being able sleep under the same roof with my wife, is a bit waste of money. On the other hand I would get some quality time with myself in the evening, movies (that I like), games whatever.

Yes, currently the good sex life is non-existent. Thanks to the sofa-solution. But like said that was never the issue, she was always pleased with it, we tried new things a lot, I would say it was on a very healthy basis. And it wasn't just an obligation for her, she also wanted it.

This sofa/floor-thing has been going on only for a few days now, but I don't think it'll end anytime soon.

We've been married for 5 years, and while she had three children during that time there were lots of moodswings etc, but I understood her since I realised that the hormones must have been totally out of the norm. After she stopped breast-feeding the youngest one she calmed down a little bit, it seemed our life was stabilizing.

Anyway the worst phase started maybe 2 months ago, so actually I suppose it could be some kind of a depression. Would in fact make sense.

For now I am just going to keep as distant as possible, give her some breathing room, send her shopping alone, to the hair-dresser, and whatnot. Maybe that's just what she needs, some space, and some time off. We'll see.

The article that was posted on this thread and also sent to me via PM, gave me this idea. At least I'll give it a go, see what happens. After all, I have absolutely NOTHING to lose, everything to win.
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  #48  
Old 19.08.2009, 11:35
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Re: Divorce in Switzerland

It could be just "a little crisis" you know. I mean it does change a couples life having kids no? All needs to be re-adjusted, re-balanced in a way.
I think a many a man or woman gets to a point where s/he surely wonders what the heck did I get myself into here or something like that.
You do sound rather optimistic and I do hope it'll get sorted and a few months down the road you can look back at this and smile but then this is me, I am always very optimistic that things will eventually work out just fine.
So why not for you and your family too !!!
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  #49  
Old 19.08.2009, 11:50
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Re: Divorce in Switzerland

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Hi all,
She sounds like a messed up moody B***H!!!!!!!!! Get a good lawyer. I really feel for you!
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Old 19.08.2009, 11:53
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Re: Divorce in Switzerland

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It could be just "a little crisis" you know. I mean it does change a couples life having kids no?
Took her time didn't she? After 3 frigging kids?



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I am always very optimistic that things will eventually work out just fine.
Yeah right!
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  #51  
Old 19.08.2009, 14:17
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Re: Divorce in Switzerland

I feel for your situation. Deeply. Been going through something similar myself.

We have a great life, super house, fantastic kids, two cars, finances OK, and our nights are fab too.

But his mtb hobby and then a fascination with another mtb female biker pushed our marriage to the brink. We've always had problems finding compatible solutions to many problems. In the end, it came down to: no one is going to tell me what to do vs. objective discussions.

I went to a Kanton's psychologist for personal help and later we both went to a Kanton's marriage counsellor. We've been going over 8 months and I think now we are finally making some breakthroughs. It's been a roller coaster ride and we've hit rock bottom a few times.

Luckily, my husband says he wants the marriage to continue and I do too.

A lot of marriage counsellors speak English here. Please find one to get help, continue communication between the both of you and find the best solution to your problems. The Kanton's counsellors aren't that expensive and they offer 1.5 hour sessions. Finding a good counsellor is not easy and it doesn't have to be from the Kanton.

In order for these sessions to work, both partners must be willing to 100% open about their feelings, their desires and yet still be able to listen to the other partner without jumping out of the chair.

It sounds like your family is lovely, you have a good life but a very unhappy wife. Putting her in an environment where she can share her reasons for unhappiness and be taken seriously will help her develop confidence in herself and perhaps in your marriage again.

Good luck to you. Keep healthy, sane and love, love, love your kids.
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Old 19.08.2009, 14:25
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Re: Divorce in Switzerland

She might be missing her family (Mum, Dad, Brother, Sister). I am speaking of first hand experience having lived in a foreign (albeit lovely) country. She can't just nip around the corner and have a good moan to her mother. I have always missed that!
She needs to build up a new and interesting life in Switzerland, go to adult education classes, paint, write a book (about her terrible marriage!). And she needs to have some good friends.
What I am afraid of though is that she might never be a "happy bunny", some people are just like that, and you will have to be for the rest of your life the one she shouts at. Another possiblity could be, that she has a medical condition, like bi-polar? I wish you all the best in your decisions.
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Old 19.08.2009, 14:25
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Re: Divorce in Switzerland

just a question or two:
is the displacement from your home country a factor?
was she like this before children?

Could it be post-natal depression playing a role here?

It's not clear how you both are able to communicate. Perhaps use paper to write down the good things and bad things that you both feel right now and allow each to respond. Use, for example, an egg timer so that you can speak without being interrupted.
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  #54  
Old 19.08.2009, 14:59
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Re: Divorce in Switzerland

You being boring is just an excuse.
It looks like you have hurt her somehow with your words, actions, in-actions etc.
It doesn't matter, she has now given up on you.
That is why a woman with no jobs and 3 kids is asking for divorce.
The other option is another man getting involved in her life somehow. I hope not.

My advice is to talk to her. Just say
"I am Sorry if I have hurt you. Please forgive me. Please give me another chance.
I promise I will change. Please accept my apologies at least for our children's sake."

The ask her
"What can I do to make things better?"

She will then blame you for all the things you said, did.
Do not respond. Do not defend yourself. Just listen. and take mental notes.
Allow her to have a go at you.
Once she calms down, say sorry again and hug her.
If she forgives you, celebrate a new beginning.
Promise yourself to don't talk about the past.

Every thing will be all right soon. Believe in yourself.
Remember, everyone falls, It is how you rise that make you successful in life.
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  #55  
Old 19.08.2009, 15:12
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Re: Divorce in Switzerland

Well I think its time to be a man and give her something to complain about.

Its a Talacker night tonight, come, meet pretty girls and boys, cry on shoulders, talk ****, get drunk, feel sick and throw up over the bedroom floor (in average, two glasses of Talacker beer ought to suffice ... ) before retiring to the sofa to snore loudly for the rest of the night.

Wake up in the morning, belch loudly, slap her on the backside as she passes, when she complains say "ah sure ... " and leave the rest of the sentence hanging .. drives 90% of women up the wall faster than any Ferarri ... and then inform her that you are taking the kids camping for the weekend, Oh and the weekend after I'm going to Lisbon/Madrid/Paris ...

You could of course point out that frankly it would be less disruptive to the children if she left the house and got a flat somewhere, and that you would pay her an allowance - equivalent to the support you would have to pay her - until she gets a job, or a move-in boyfriend. If she doesn't want to go that far then suggest a 6 month break where she moves back to England or drives through Paris in a sports car with the wind blowing in her hair. You might sit her down and tell her that the strain is beginning to tell on her, some lines on her forehead and crows feet under eyes, and that maybe she should go home to mummys for a week and oh, a little present, here's a ticket.

If you behave as if you are divorced, (kids every second weekend, split finances) then you are establishing precedences which will, under Swiss procedural law, benefit you when the going gets serious. The Kanton provides an excel sheet which allows you to calculate payments - if you can prove that you have lived according to this sheet - she doesn't even have to know - then this acts as a precedence as well, there is no reason for a judge to grant her more, or if he does it is usually for defined purposes.

There is no reason why you should move out - let her go. Swiss law doesn't take kindly to people who by actions or words express distain for earning their own living. If you can prove that she is capable of earning her own living, that you can reduce her burden of raising the kids and she shows that she only wants to live off you then you are in a much better position later in the courts - the best position would be is if she actually had a job.

Don't forget, you would be surprised how many kids will prefer to move in with Daddy. If you have kids of 12 and over there is no reason why in the case of a divorce, they shouldn't move in with you, and let her know it.

Considering the above activities - there is'nt a damm thing she can do to stop you - now wouldn't it be nice to be in the driving seat?

Don't forget to reclaim her language classes in your tax returns.
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  #56  
Old 19.08.2009, 15:33
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Re: Divorce in Switzerland

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You being boring is just an excuse.
It looks like you have hurt her somehow with your words, actions, in-actions etc.
It doesn't matter, she has now given up on you.
That is why a woman with no jobs and 3 kids is asking for divorce.
The other option is another man getting involved in her life somehow. I hope not.

My advice is to talk to her. Just say
"I am Sorry if I have hurt you. Please forgive me. Please give me another chance.
I promise I will change. Please accept my apologies at least for our children's sake."

The ask her
"What can I do to make things better?"

She will then blame you for all the things you said, did.
Do not respond. Do not defend yourself. Just listen. and take mental notes.
Allow her to have a go at you.
Once she calms down, say sorry again and hug her.
If she forgives you, celebrate a new beginning.
Promise yourself to don't talk about the past.

Every thing will be all right soon. Believe in yourself.
Remember, everyone falls, It is how you rise that make you successful in life.
Are you sure this is the best course of action in this case? From what he wrote, it seems like her main problem is that he isn't "exciting" enough or is "boring". A symptom and a cause of that may be his submissive behaviour in situations like this. What you're proposing may be interpreted as a complete capitulation and confirm for her that she was right all along. What was supposed to be a last-ditch effort to save their marriage may turn into the final nail in the coffin of her attraction for him.

I believe what HTD and Cashboy are proposing is a better course of action. It's time for her to put up or shut up, and for Rene to make clear to her the realities of what divorcing him could entail. He is truly at a point where he has nothing to lose, so taking real steps towards separation could only do two things: 1) Put him in a better position if an eventual divorce does come. 2) May inadvertedly address some of the, ahem, "being an exciting and not boring man" issues she has with him. If he starts treating the situation in practical and rational manner, she may be forced to do so, too.
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Old 19.08.2009, 15:41
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Re: Divorce in Switzerland

Tell her to bring a girlfriend round for some mutual fun. Or offer to bring your own. If she doesnt agree, tell her she is too boring for you and tell her to sleep on the couch till she sorts it out...
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Old 19.08.2009, 15:45
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Re: Divorce in Switzerland

HTD: Have you ever been a housewife in a country away from your family and friends? Have you ever been a full-time mother? Have you ever felt so lonely you could burst and don't see a way out?

I seriously think working with your partner to find an amicable solution is better than demonstrating who's the boss.
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Old 19.08.2009, 15:46
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Re: Divorce in Switzerland

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Are you sure this is the best course of action in this case? From what he wrote, it seems like her main problem is that he isn't "exciting" enough or is "boring". A symptom and a cause of that may be his submissive behaviour in situations like this. What you're proposing may be interpreted as a complete capitulation and confirm for her that she was right all along. What was supposed to be a last-ditch effort to save their marriage may turn into the final nail in the coffin of her attraction for him.

I believe what HTD and Cashboy are proposing is a better course of action. It's time for her to put up or shut up, and for Rene to make clear to her the realities of what divorcing him could entail. He is truly at a point where he has nothing to lose, so taking real steps towards separation could only do two things: 1) Put him in a better position if an eventual divorce does come. 2) May inadvertedly address some of the, ahem, "being an exciting and not boring man" issues she has with him. If he starts treating the situation in practical and rational manner, she may be forced to do so, too.
It could be the final nail in the coffin. But the reason why a lot of relations fail is because you take them for granted. you forget to "I love you", "I need you", "I miss you" etc. You forget "Thank you" and "Please".
and 'Sorry seems to be the hardest word.'
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Old 19.08.2009, 15:51
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Re: Divorce in Switzerland

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Well I think its time to be a man and give her something to complain about.

Its a Talacker night tonight, come, meet pretty girls and boys, cry on shoulders, talk ****, get drunk, feel sick and throw up over the bedroom floor (in average, two glasses of Talacker beer ought to suffice ... ) before retiring to the sofa to snore loudly for the rest of the night.

Wake up in the morning, belch loudly, slap her on the backside as she passes, when she complains say "ah sure ... " and leave the rest of the sentence hanging .. drives 90% of women up the wall faster than any Ferarri ... and then inform her that you are taking the kids camping for the weekend, Oh and the weekend after I'm going to Lisbon/Madrid/Paris ...

You could of course point out that frankly it would be less disruptive to the children if she left the house and got a flat somewhere, and that you would pay her an allowance - equivalent to the support you would have to pay her - until she gets a job, or a move-in boyfriend. If she doesn't want to go that far then suggest a 6 month break where she moves back to England or drives through Paris in a sports car with the wind blowing in her hair. You might sit her down and tell her that the strain is beginning to tell on her, some lines on her forehead and crows feet under eyes, and that maybe she should go home to mummys for a week and oh, a little present, here's a ticket.

If you behave as if you are divorced, (kids every second weekend, split finances) then you are establishing precedences which will, under Swiss procedural law, benefit you when the going gets serious. The Kanton provides an excel sheet which allows you to calculate payments - if you can prove that you have lived according to this sheet - she doesn't even have to know - then this acts as a precedence as well, there is no reason for a judge to grant her more, or if he does it is usually for defined purposes.

There is no reason why you should move out - let her go. Swiss law doesn't take kindly to people who by actions or words express distain for earning their own living. If you can prove that she is capable of earning her own living, that you can reduce her burden of raising the kids and she shows that she only wants to live off you then you are in a much better position later in the courts - the best position would be is if she actually had a job.

Don't forget, you would be surprised how many kids will prefer to move in with Daddy. If you have kids of 12 and over there is no reason why in the case of a divorce, they shouldn't move in with you, and let her know it.

Considering the above activities - there is'nt a damm thing she can do to stop you - now wouldn't it be nice to be in the driving seat?

Don't forget to reclaim her language classes in your tax returns.
what he said! Prauge is alway good for some blokey time

as for you sleeping on the sofa WTF??? you work all day, then have to sort the kids out all night and 'sleep' on the sofa??? so how exactly is losing you job going to help your situation??

personally I'd be telling her to pack her bags and bugger off.

and I hate to say it, but it does sound like she has her eye on someone else.

good luck
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