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  #141  
Old 25.08.2009, 10:27
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Re: Divorce in Switzerland

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Last night we were actually wathing TV together after the kids had gone to bed, and then she decided to go to bed. She asked me if I was really going to sleep on the couch for the next decade. I said "we'll see". She then told one of our dogs "mommy is going to bed now -alone". That was a small hint in my direction I think. It seems she is now a bit confused, she didn't expect me doing the couch-thing. She then quietly and slowly carried my blanket and pillow next to me. Placed it there and walked away quietly. After like 10 minutes then she came back in the livingroom, and continued watching tv with me. Only after I practially fell asleep, she then turned the tv off, and again walked slowly to the bedroom, and went to bed. I don't know if it's good or bad, but at least that was something different from her.
Thats is definitely a Good Sign.. but try not to mistake Sympathy for Love. Women have softer Gentler Hearts and often they would show that but sometimes its not really Love.

But anyhow you cant read someones Heart and when in doubt, its better to be Positive.

The "Outbursts" would suggest, something is bugging her inside and its better for it to be out... It will be good if you can be Patient, let her shout and scream all she wants... Sometimes you can do that too and play a 'Victim' somehow, othertimes just make a joke.. say something like "You look so HOT when you're angry" and wink suggestively...

Get a mean Tattoo or some Body Piercings... Dye your Hair, do something Outrageous with yourself... She doesnt like you uncomfortable or changing... manipulate it
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  #142  
Old 25.08.2009, 10:38
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Re: Divorce in Switzerland

Lots of good news in your post

- you are both talking. There's a lot of hurt that needs to be voiced and it's quite usual that it all comes out in spurts.

- she's still interested in you. She'd like to be next to you at night again. That's not sympathy, that's love. Your wife is confused about her own feelings but is starting to soften.

- you'd like to stay with her. That's honesty on your part. Stick with being honest. It's the only thing that will help you get through this.

Great post. Not every bumpy road leads to divorce. Sometimes we use the word "divorce" as another way of saying "our marriage is in trouble and I'm hurting!".
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  #143  
Old 25.08.2009, 11:30
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Re: Divorce in Switzerland

I think it is good thing that it is only the two of you trying to work this out for the time being. Once a lawyer gets into the picture or a marriage counsellor, usually its then the mess really gets going. Of course each situation is unique and there is no recipe which works for everyone the same but the more people get actively involved in a couple's troubles, the worse it gets usually ...

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....

The good thing about all this nightmare is that at least she is finally pouring out her heart. No matter if it's justified, fair, polite, or even legal, at least she's unloading her load. And boy, there is a truckload of it. Like I've said before, I think it's helping her a bit, but there is a loooong way to go. The downside is of course, that talking to her or not-talking-to-her, or even just opening the front door is like walking on a minefield. With LOTS of mines. You never know when the next explosion occurs, but you know it's any moment now.

...
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  #144  
Old 25.08.2009, 11:53
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Re: Divorce in Switzerland

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I think it is good thing that it is only the two of you trying to work this out for the time being. Once a lawyer gets into the picture or a marriage counsellor, usually its then the mess really gets going. Of course each situation is unique and there is no recipe which works for everyone the same but the more people get actively involved in a couple's troubles, the worse it gets usually ...
How does it get messy when a marriage counsellor is involved?
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  #145  
Old 25.08.2009, 11:56
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Re: Divorce in Switzerland

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How does it get messy when a marriage counsellor is involved?
Divorce Lawyers and Marriage Counsellors are in it to make money, so theres a slight Conflict of Interest.
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  #146  
Old 25.08.2009, 12:01
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Re: Divorce in Switzerland

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How does it get messy when a marriage counselor is involved?
Have you ever been to one? Their opening line is pretty much always "....most people come to us when it's too late..."

I have watched and been involved with more than 10 pairs who experienced separation, open relationships, divorce etc, and whilst this may not represent a perfect demographic cross section of society, not any one of them found the experience either useful or beneficial in any way whatsoever. My own experience would ask you what you think a counselor is really expected to do if you don't have feelings for your partner?
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  #147  
Old 25.08.2009, 12:11
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Re: Divorce in Switzerland

Yes, I have been to one and am still going. That's why I recommend it.

Our sessions are about communication and finding out the real reasons why we are having problems. When a partner becomes interested in someone else, it's usually because he/she was unhappy in the marriage. And those are the problems we look at.

The sessions offer a neutral ground where each partner can say what they want without things getting out of hand. The counsellor asks relevant questions, helps to find the root of the problem and together find ways of avoiding the same problem in the future.

I'm lucky and we are seeing a very good counsellor. In investing time and money now, we hope to avoid the same problems in the future. It's a wise investment but of course, there are no guarantees.
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  #148  
Old 25.08.2009, 13:13
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Re: Divorce in Switzerland

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I think it is good thing that it is only the two of you trying to work this out for the time being. Once a lawyer gets into the picture or a marriage counsellor, usually its then the mess really gets going. Of course each situation is unique and there is no recipe which works for everyone the same but the more people get actively involved in a couple's troubles, the worse it gets usually ...
Maybe the difference between "'more people' and 'lawyers'" and an outside expert in relationships, is that the latter is listening to both sides and working with both parties. A lawyer is, I presume, paid by the one to get the best deal for his or her client. The girl's friends may support the wife's point of view and the chap's friends may support his (or the other way round) but it is seldom an unbiased view which helps the couple to look at the whole problem from both sides.
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  #149  
Old 25.08.2009, 13:22
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Re: Divorce in Switzerland

Its a horrible situation - I hope things get sorted out

From my readying it sounds like your wife is depressed (don't know it its post natal or not) - please try to get her to talk to someone

Moving abroad with children is like being in a guilded cage - you have no support network and you lash out at those nearest to you. You think of your time back "home" with such rose tinted glasses - you had freedom, friends, understood the culture etc all probably pre kids - though even if you were to go back now it wouldn't be the same for your wife - children change your life more than you can imagine.
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  #150  
Old 25.08.2009, 13:45
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Re: Divorce in Switzerland

For marriage counselling in English,
Zürich: http://www.schweizer-portal.ch/wwwze...ich/35275.html

http://www.ksdz.ch/index.php?id=4
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  #151  
Old 25.08.2009, 14:33
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Re: Divorce in Switzerland

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The current situation and what happens in it and because of it, is entirely up to her. If she goes and shags that football team, then for sure that has consequences. If she doesn't, it makes some things different. I am just saying that "I don't care", since the ball is entirely in her side of the court. I will not stand in the way of her "happiness", no matter which way that happiness is, or she thinks it is. If she finds the happiness with me without doing anything unforgivable, then I'm happy. If she finds the happiness somewhere else, then she is free to make that choice. I really don't care.

And as far as seeing other women, I don't feel like it. I KNOW many other women, even ones where I've sometimes thought that if I was single, I might give it a try. But no, I'll not do that. If we end up splitting up, I'll use the following years just to build up my life again, then enjoy it, and maybe, just maybe afterwards I might think about finding someone. But most likely not. I have enough kids already anyway, so why bother. For anything else I am fairly self-sufficient if required.
I'm not entirely sure what is so unforgivable about shagging a football team - presuming you find a compliant one. I mean where does the line for unforgivable kick in? 1 man once, 1 man three times, 2 men once, 2 men at the same time, girl on girl action? Men tend to be territorial about these things and with women that's the wrong approach because they don't see it that way. Imagine her with two guys at the same time - make you feel sick? Why? It's only sex.

In my, limited, experience women are either the type to just go and do it or not and if she were then it probably would have occured by now and you would have been spared the drama. If she hasn't then storming out of the house muttering "I'm going to get laid" is great but when she is faced with the cold reality of what's on offer at the Splendid bar on a Tuesday night ... Men will debase themselves for sex but women don't really, do they?

Even if she did have a daliance, so what? Hundreds of reasons all nothing to do with you. Hundreds of reasons all to do with you - you'll never get a straight answer and if you have to ask then you are hopelessly off track. For your own peace of mind you'd almost be better off forcing and containing the issue - send her to Mallorca or Ibiza or whatever for a week, get it over and done with.

Same goes for you. Rather than this being such a big problem its a great opportunity to be seriously self-critical.

Oh - piercings and tattoos? Bad idea, very common, very mid-life-crisis, hard to hide when you are over it. Motorbike is a better option, can be sold and when you re-descend into surburban life and have forgotten the pain in the ass and back it caused you, you can sit in the armchair, pipe in mouth, book in hand, dog at feet and smile at the days when you were a real wild guy. If you have to buy a sportscar easy on the red - British racing green is just the right ammount of understatement.
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  #152  
Old 25.08.2009, 15:26
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Re: Divorce in Switzerland

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I'm not entirely sure what is so unforgivable about shagging a football team - presuming you find a compliant one. I mean where does the line for unforgivable kick in? 1 man once, 1 man three times, 2 men once, 2 men at the same time, girl on girl action?
That's the thing, I don't know where the line is. I'll only know myself when she goes and does something, then I would know how I feel about it. It doesn't even have to be just about the sex, there are just things that you can't ignore.

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Same goes for you. Rather than this being such a big problem its a great opportunity to be seriously self-critical.

Oh - piercings and tattoos? Bad idea, very common, very mid-life-crisis, hard to hide when you are over it. Motorbike is a better option, can be sold and when you re-descend into surburban life and have forgotten the pain in the ass and back it caused you, you can sit in the armchair, pipe in mouth, book in hand, dog at feet and smile at the days when you were a real wild guy. If you have to buy a sportscar easy on the red - British racing green is just the right ammount of understatement.
I would love to buy a sportscar, and actually I'm seriously considering it. The only problem is, my wife loves also sports cars, so if I'll buy one, she'll probably end up driving more with it than I do. Actually my current favourite would be one of those new Mustangs as a convertible, I can't afford the Shelby but even the GT would do... hmm...
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  #153  
Old 25.08.2009, 15:55
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Re: Divorce in Switzerland

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That's the thing, I don't know where the line is. I'll only know myself when she goes and does something, then I would know how I feel about it. It doesn't even have to be just about the sex, there are just things that you can't ignore.

I would love to buy a sportscar, and actually I'm seriously considering it. The only problem is, my wife loves also sports cars, so if I'll buy one, she'll probably end up driving more with it than I do. Actually my current favourite would be one of those new Mustangs as a convertible, I can't afford the Shelby but even the GT would do... hmm...
Let her drive it on condition that she sleeps on the sofa once, make that twice, a week.
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  #154  
Old 25.08.2009, 16:14
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Re: Divorce in Switzerland

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Let her drive it on condition that she sleeps on the sofa once, make that twice, a week.
She already asked me last night if I would like her to sleep on the sofa for a change. She was worried about my back. I turned her down, I'll rather have a sore back than listen to her having one.

The problem with the Mustang is anyway that it has only 4 seats. So all of us can never drive with it together, if we would feel like it. The only convertible available with 5 seats is the Jeep Wrangler Unlimited. Also veeeery nice, but that's an offroader, not a sportscar.

Me and my wife actually have a very similar taste in cars (she also loves the Wrangler and the Mustang, along with a few others) so maybe we could focus on those in the future. Stop fighting and start burning rubber. Even together. :-)
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  #155  
Old 25.08.2009, 16:25
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Re: Divorce in Switzerland

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... I'll rather have a sore back than listen to her having one.
well thats par for the course in any marriage.

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The problem with the Mustang is anyway that it has only 4 seats. So all of us can never drive with it together, if we would feel like it. The only convertible available with 5 seats is the Jeep Wrangler Unlimited. Also veeeery nice, but that's an offroader, not a sportscar.

Me and my wife actually have a very similar taste in cars (she also loves the Wrangler and the Mustang, along with a few others) so maybe we could focus on those in the future. Stop fighting and start burning rubber. Even together. :-)
Hmm, you are not getting into the spirit of things yet. Crudely put sports cars were built for men to pick up and then parade chicks. No scope for kids in that job description.
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  #156  
Old 25.08.2009, 16:32
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Re: Divorce in Switzerland

Your own relationships must be something else Dervaish teasing the wits out of your girls I could easily imagine !!! ...

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Thats is definitely a Good Sign.. but try not to mistake Sympathy for Love. Women have softer Gentler Hearts and often they would show that but sometimes its not really Love.

But anyhow you cant read someones Heart and when in doubt, its better to be Positive.

The "Outbursts" would suggest, something is bugging her inside and its better for it to be out... It will be good if you can be Patient, let her shout and scream all she wants... Sometimes you can do that too and play a 'Victim' somehow, othertimes just make a joke.. say something like "You look so HOT when you're angry" and wink suggestively...

Get a mean Tattoo or some Body Piercings... Dye your Hair, do something Outrageous with yourself... She doesnt like you uncomfortable or changing... manipulate it
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  #157  
Old 25.08.2009, 16:39
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Re: Divorce in Switzerland

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Hmm, you are not getting into the spirit of things yet. Crudely put sports cars were built for men to pick up and then parade chicks. No scope for kids in that job description.
True, but the kids are now there, so I should also consider them. When they are a bit older, I'll then get a sportscar which is really built for the purpose. Something like a Dodge Viper would be nice.

But actually I don't agree on picking up the chicks. Of course you can do that if you're a playboy who doesn't (seriously) even understand the specs of the car. If you ask me, the Swiss mountain passes + a sportscar + me (alone) is the perfect formula. The girls would just scream, and I'm not too keen on that. The only thing screaming in a sportscar should be the tires (along with the engine of course).
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  #158  
Old 25.08.2009, 17:28
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Re: Divorce in Switzerland

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.

She was worried about my back..

Stop fighting and start burning rubber. Even together. :-)
Yo, life is not so bleak afterall. Sorry you are still in the Dark Side it seems but honestly, I am not worried about you, your wife and kids and marriage anymore.

Look - your wife is worried about your back, cookes warm meals for you and kids twice a day, takes care of your clothes and house, bore three children with you on top of all this and moved with you to another country. You sound like a nice noble man and she sounds like a sweet lady. It's all big love.

Talk is talk, she might be feeling little unimportant, taken for granted, more your mom than your femme fatale..If you both are going through some middlife crisis, need to enliven your routine, go for it, together, while giving eachother respectful space, it can be beautiful to marvel the other one from a little distance..

Learn how to coomunicate and not bottle things inside, how to show respect to eachother, how to understand your own and eachother's needs and emotional processes. I have a feeling Gucci bags and sport cars will not fix things, but why not have fun..

Be proud and feel lucky to have a wonderful family. It is absolutely normal to go through some rough patches. Good luck.
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Old 25.08.2009, 18:49
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Re: Divorce in Switzerland

You wait when you get to be 65 or so. You'll grab that sportscar and stuff it with lovely blondes and off you go makes those tires and all the rest scream.
Amazing to see how many men actually do that. A second youth comes over them and it suits of them damn nice.

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True, but the kids are now there, so I should also consider them. When they are a bit older, I'll then get a sportscar which is really built for the purpose. Something like a Dodge Viper would be nice.

But actually I don't agree on picking up the chicks. Of course you can do that if you're a playboy who doesn't (seriously) even understand the specs of the car. If you ask me, the Swiss mountain passes + a sportscar + me (alone) is the perfect formula. The girls would just scream, and I'm not too keen on that. The only thing screaming in a sportscar should be the tires (along with the engine of course).
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Old 25.08.2009, 19:11
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Re: Divorce in Switzerland

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Your own relationships must be something else Dervaish teasing the wits out of your girls I could easily imagine !!! ...
Hahaha.. the good thing is you used Plurals... "relationships".. my "girls"

But yes... Accounts of my own interactions with the female kind have been very Eventful and Amusing ... and not to forget Embarassing.....

Sacrifices one have to make trying to run up the Learning Curve..
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