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Old 18.08.2009, 12:00
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From Divorce to unity, from hell to heaven

Hi all,

Don't know where to start. I moved to Switzerland from a EU-country about 2 years ago with my wife and three kids. We've never had any actual problems, just that my wife complains that I'm boring, whenver I try to surprise her with something nice she doesn't like it (and starts shouting), etc.etc. So to cut the story short, she apparently thinks her husband should be someone else, more exiting, a superman, whatever. Our sexlife has always been good for both of us, she just doesn't like me. I guess if she just doesn't like me, I can't blame her, she is free to search for happiness somewhere else -not that I think she will ever find it. Anyway, her problem. I feel screwed, but that's life I guess.

She is a housewife, I am the working father, so the deal is more or less that she takes care of the household+the kids, I bring in the money and take care of the "manly" things like small renovations, cars, legal matters, etc. All well, I earn reasonably well, we have everything we need/want.

Now the thing is anway that she wants a divorce, and she is convinced that she will get along somehow without me. The problem is just that does anyone know what would happen to her residence permit? We have the temporary 5-year permit, she doesn't have a job (at least not yet), so if we divorce, is she allowed to keep it?

Another concern is of course how will she be able to offer a deacent living for herself and the kids. I work quite a lot, so I cannot take the kids. And that is just braking my heart, I love all three of them so much, they mean everything to me, and I want to be with them every day. They also love me just as much (they love their mom as well), and I couldn't stand the idea that I would see them only like every second weekend or so.

So at the very least I want to make sure that she is financially well, which means that the kids are also financially well, and are able to continue their life normally. Is there anything in Switzerland about this, any support for kids and single moms? I am prepared to give them 60% of my net income at least for a while, that would leave me barely enough to survive, but how long can that last? That would mean that they wouldn't make any savings, nor would I. Basically all of us would be living close to poverty, and that is just somehow stupid. I think it would not be easy for her to get a job anyway (doesn't speak the language yet).

I really don't need much to live, but I also don't want to be stuck in this mess forever. I even don't remember when was the last time I bought something nice for myself, and that's fine. But no woman would ever want to have me, if I pay 60% of my income to my ex-wife constantly. Not to mention three kids, is already a big no-no for many. No matter how lovable they are.

Any hints/clues anyone? What can I do? It's hard to describe the situation the way it is. All I know is that there is this huge black cloud hanging over me. It's just horrible to imagine, I'm not there to read the bedtimestory for my kids, and not there to pick them up in my arms when they wake up in the morning.

Sad, just so sad. I just feel like crying. I still don't regret for marrying my wife, she gave me the wonderful children. And the really sad thing is that she never studied or anything, she dedicated herself to being the housewife. And now she wants a divorce. I also ask myself, what could be so horribly wrong with me that she want's to do this. Our youngest child is only 1 year old! I'm boring, safe, mature, educated, yeah, *yawn*, I know. But is that a reason for a divorce? I could understand divorce because of drinking problem, violence, cheating, or something. But just because she is bored????
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Old 18.08.2009, 12:06
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Re: Divorce in Switzerland

Sorry to hear your sad tale. For your wife to immediately jump to a solution such as divorce seems a bit drastic - have you tried to broach the subject of marriage guidance counselling?

Might be a first step to resolving at least some problems which will perhaps put you both on the right track to put all your differences aside and start afresh.
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Old 18.08.2009, 12:10
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Re: Divorce in Switzerland

You have to talk - and if you can't talk together you should go to mediation. You are potentially going to ruin your lives and those of your children if you divorce.

You ask how long you can go on forking out 60% (it could be more if the court decides and what about assets?) - well you can figure on the next 20 years.

So TALK! You can't really be that boring, can you??
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Old 18.08.2009, 12:14
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Re: Divorce in Switzerland

This is my first post in this forum. I'm really sorry about what is happening to you and your family. It must feel like the end of the world. I really hope that things turn around for the better.
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Old 18.08.2009, 12:15
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Re: Divorce in Switzerland

Hey Rene,

don't take these things too hard. It seems like your wife isn't happy with her life and she thinks that the problem is you. But everything happened of her free will. I'm getting a divorce too and you can bet I want to blame my husband for being a jerk, and he was a jerk, but I'm the one who stayed with him. You see, your wife is probably looking to you to fill her needs for excitement and interest in life, but her life shouldn't only revolve around you. She needs to find ways to fulfill herself. Don't break your heart over this. You love them and you will miss them, but at the end of the day she needs to go out and express herself, not only bend down in front of others' needs as a housewife typically does.

As for her permit, if she doesn't get a job, she will lose it. And everyone will just have to live with that.

all the best. I wish you peace and healing in your heart and your family.
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Old 18.08.2009, 12:21
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Re: Divorce in Switzerland

Heart breaking situation.
Thank you for sharing your situation with EF. I also admire you for being straight forward and telling it all.
You mentioned in your post in a couple of places that "you are boring". I think this might be the first contribution to the situation. You say that you work hard and long. Working hard and long is no bad but do / did you spare enough time for your family? You said that "your wife does not work / have a job". Being a mother to three kids is equal to having three full time jobs. Bottom line is that you MUST do all possible to save this marriage. Have you seen a professional?
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Old 18.08.2009, 12:24
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Re: Divorce in Switzerland

From your post, it seems you love your wife and kids alot and are working hard to provide a good life to them. Situations do get tough at times and some times we say things we don't mean, so you need to talk to your wife, if not for your sake then for the sake of your kids. If you opt for divorce, it will effect your kids more than it effects you both.

Take some time off from work, spend time exclusively with your kids and wife. If your wife finds you boring, try doing things she likes(surely you must be knowing what interests her), she may soon understand that divorce is not the solution to 'her finding you boring'.Not everyone is always in bubbly mood and not everyone always remain 'interesting' in life, moods depend on the surrounding situations.

Before deciding anything, just think about your kids happiness and how they will cope if you go for divorce.
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Old 18.08.2009, 12:37
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Re: Divorce in Switzerland

It sounds like this has been brewing up for a LONG time... she's likely had these thoughts for ages but has let them bubble and fester under the surface without ever really broaching it, and it's now all come to a head.

My parents had a VERY messy divorce and my mother was bitter and spiteful all the way through it. He thought "well i'll do the best for her and my son" and offered her half of everything right away, but she being full of greed fought for months and months go get a better deal. What did she end up with after all this grief? Yup, half... and a ****load of solicitors fees.

My advice is don't sell yourself short here, be strong. She will try to use the children as leverage to get what she wants (she is probably going to try and milk you for all you are worth, remember that) and it will likely at some point get nasty, but don't make the mistake of thinking that just because she has the children that you need to give away your entire worldly goods to keep her happy. She chose to leave you, not the other way around. You will end up paying her maintenance that will cover the childrens needs, and you can of course give them money whenever you like off of your own back, but make sure you fight tooth and nail to ensure that all she gets it a FAIR share of what you have. You have a life to lead too now, and the last thing you want is to be a financially broken middle-aged man who feels like he is starting from the very bottom all over again.

Get a damn good lawyer and speak to him as often as you have to, don't make ANY decisions without his input as she will likely use every manipulative trick she knows to get you into paying as much as possible, including her own threats from her own solicitors.

Best of luck, I really feel for you. I never saw someone change so much as when my mother and father got divorced... it makes people (usually the person who is leaving) do horrible, horrible things.

My post may sound a bit negative towards your wife but your situaiton is very similar to that of my fathers. My mother was similarly bored with life and called him everything under the sun, she was spiteful, irrational, and vindictive... as it seems your wife has the potential to be for mwhat you've told us about how she is behaving. This does not make for an easy divorce.

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Old 18.08.2009, 12:46
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Re: Divorce in Switzerland

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As for her permit, if she doesn't get a job, she will lose it. And everyone will just have to live with that.
Probably not. If she is an EU citizen, the B Permit is not so easily lost, to begin with.

Additionally, she does not need a job if she has sufficient spousal / child support. With regards to this, Switzerland is pretty punitive towards men in family law and it could easily be as high as 60% and not for 'a while' but in the long term (I have come across divorced men who are paying this), although it depends also on where the divorce takes place (some Cantons are more man-friendly). I suggest you seek legal advice ASAP.

Sorry to hear of your situation.
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Old 18.08.2009, 12:50
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Re: Divorce in Switzerland

I second the conjugal therapy advice. It sounds strange to fall in love with somebody, have three children with him while he is providing and then label him boring and quit. Sounds she is going through some crisis, it can be really hard to be stay at home mom, in a different country, not having the network, nor hobbies, school to go to, interesting work, family and friends you can brag about your work success to..

Can you help her find her own life? So she does not only stay at home and care for the house and kids? Don't worry about being boring, there are worse things, haha. Boring is very good sometimes.

Communication is the key, you might be surprise when she starts talking how many things you thought were good and working when in her mind they were not. Good luck and watch In Treatment together on SF2 every weeknight after 10pm, it's interesting.
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Old 18.08.2009, 13:05
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Re: Divorce in Switzerland

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I second the conjugal therapy advice. It sounds strange to fall in love with somebody, have three children with him while he is providing and then label him boring and quit.
Very strange. Plus the fact that she is apparently convinced that she'll make it without you... You sure she doesn't have anyone on the side? I don't know how helpful it is, and maybe you prefer not to think about it... But you seem to not have even considered the possibility.
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Old 18.08.2009, 13:08
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Re: Divorce in Switzerland

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Plus the fact that she is apparently convinced that she'll make it without you... .
Isn't the grass always green on the other side.....
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Old 18.08.2009, 13:11
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Re: Divorce in Switzerland

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Very strange. Plus the fact that she is apparently convinced that she'll make it without you... You sure she doesn't have anyone on the side? I don't know how helpful it is, and maybe you prefer not to think about it... But you seem to not have even considered the possibility.
Yeah, I was just thinking that... I hope that's not the case. Though, I think if people nag it's a sign of them wanting to have things better, fix it, etc. It's the ones who don't nag and just walk away, that are sad. I would get a help of a professional for the two of you. So she sees you are not just gonna be called names and not do anything and wait till she threatens and leave.
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Old 18.08.2009, 13:39
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Re: Divorce in Switzerland

We only have the one side of the story, and an incomplete one at that. Maybe there is someone else, maybe Rene is not the saint he has put himself forward as being, maybe she's just going through a mid-life crisis and was advised that she would be well taken care of financially under Swiss divorce law. Ultimately it is all speculation.

All that Rene can do is see if he can work things out with his wife, with mediation and/or counselling, and seek legal advice in the event that this fails. And all we can do at this stage is offer limited advice, in face of a limited picture, and - naturally - our sympathies.
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Old 18.08.2009, 13:47
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Re: Divorce in Switzerland

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We only have the one side of the story, and an incomplete one at that. Maybe there is someone else, maybe Rene is not the saint he has put himself forward as being, maybe she's just going through a mid-life crisis and was advised that she would be well taken care of financially under Swiss divorce law. Ultimately it is all speculation.

All that Rene can do is see if he can work things out with his wife, with mediation and/or counselling, and seek legal advice in the event that this fails. And all we can do at this stage is offer limited advice, in face of a limited picture, and - naturally - our sympathies.
Yeah, like he is actually a philanderer, posing himself as a saint here so as to invite responses that really don't apply to him, so he can discard them, thereby wasting his time and the forum time.

Of course people can give "limited advice" here, but given the constraints, I think he has presented a very good picture, and people are offering useful advice. If you can't offer anything useful (I can't for example), better to stay out rather than post platitudes.
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Old 18.08.2009, 13:59
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Re: Divorce in Switzerland

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Yeah, like he is actually a philanderer, posing himself as a saint here so as to invite responses that really don't apply to him, so he can discard them, thereby wasting his time and the forum time.
When I suggested there is someone else I actually meant that maybe she was cheating on him - I was not clear enough, sorry.

And people invite responses that really don't apply to them all the time. Sometimes people don't seek advice, only validation.

Naturally, I am not suggesting that this is the case with Rene; unfortunately my original reply gave a false impression in this regard.
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Old 18.08.2009, 14:00
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Re: Divorce in Switzerland

I really feel for you.

Most (95%) of relationships end due to bad sex or money problems.

Firstly, the good sex on both sides thing doesn't make sense to me.
I have never come accross a female that enjoys sex with somebody that they find boring and is p*ssed off enough with to want to divorce. Yep, I've known wives to have sex with their husbands purely becuse they feel it is a marital obligation.
Secondly, you claim that there are no money problems, that you provide everything you and your family wants.


So your wife wants a divorce because you are boring.

Doesn't stack up to me to be honest, because you would have always been boring.

I think that your wife must have UK satelite coverage and is doing bugger all during the day (hasn't learnt the language yet) and watching too much of the media hype where everything should be and can be done. That is why the UK economy is ed up basically because everyone has done everything they can't really afford to for the past 10 years.

You could go the counciling route first to see what she thinks marriage is all about and what she expects in a relationship.

I am a bit more drastic and dramatic to make the point.

I would tell her fair enough lets get divorced then:
1) Immediately split up finances (bank accounts etc.)
2) Tell her you are going to have to get a smaller house for her so you can afford accomodation elsewhere.
3) Make sure that the children are fed and clothed properly.
4) Spend as much time having fun on the weekends with just the children (make sure you don't do the family group thing.)

Your wife is going to soon find out what a big mistake she made.
She has three children as baggage, can't speak the language which gives me the impression that she doesn't socialise easily and probably has little of interest to talk about.
What is going to make her desirable to a male long term? Nothing!

She would just end up being a victim to somebody like me.
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Old 18.08.2009, 14:11
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Re: Divorce in Switzerland

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Very strange. Plus the fact that she is apparently convinced that she'll make it without you... You sure she doesn't have anyone on the side? I don't know how helpful it is, and maybe you prefer not to think about it... But you seem to not have even considered the possibility.
You know, I have considered it, but I just don't see it being possible. I could imagine her doing it (she hasn't until know, that I know of), but I just don't see that being the case. Of course it could be that she has "a plan", once she gets rid of me there is someone she tries to get. Could well be. Anyway it seems to me that her pain is real, no matter how unjustified I think it is.

She is also very obsessive about things, once she decides she wants something / doesn't want something, that becomes almost her highest priority in life. Now it seems to me that she realised she doesn't like me, so she is poisoning her mind with everything I have ever done / not done. And this is the part that is really killing me, all the nicest things I have ever done to her, with the purest love and good will in my heart, she has somehow turned in her head to be "bad", "stupid", "senseless", "irritating", "not what I want", or something. Everything she remembers, she turns it bad.

I do realise that many of my actions don't please her, but I really don't even have a chance. No matter how hard I try to do something nice, it's always something different from what what she thinks she would have really wanted. That's why she normally buys her own presents, because she doesn't want me to get them, because I have no taste in her opinion. (I would disagree on that, but ok, my taste is not identical to hers)

She is going crazy sometimes because she has to stay home, but when I try to suggest that she takes the car and goes somewhere alone (anywhere she likes), she doesn't want to. Then if the whole family goes on vacation somewhere, she bitches the whole time how stupid idea it was. While we are still on that trip, to make sure nobody enjoys it. Of course she never contributes beforehand, only afterwards to give the judgement. If I ask hew where she would like to go, then she says she would be happy to lie on the beach the entire summer, close to home with the kids. Fine, we do that and she complains because we didn't go anywhere.

The worst of all was when I got sick some weeks back, I had to stay in bed for 3 days with high fever, before the antibiotics started to cure me. That drove her nuts, and she still screams about that, every week at least 2 times. The funny thing is that even her mother was at our place during that time going out with her, so she didn't have to take care of the kids alone, and I took care of myself 100%.

So it just really seems to me, I can't win. Maybe it is just the case that she has been feeling like this a long time, and now just my pure existance irritates her.

It's just that we fight more and more each day, and the fights go worse all the time. Making up takes longer and longer. Currently there is an open "War" going on, don't know when/where will it end.

Of course there is also her side of the story, which I am sure feels real for her, but even then I just think that she is being unreasonable. I think she just wants a man, who is athletic, dynamite in bed, rich (millionaire), good looking, gentleman, kind, sweet, intelligent, considerative, exiting, idea-rich, does housework, does all manly things, and turnes her life into constant heaven. But it's just that even if she would have that, she wouldn't be happy. There would still be something "more" what she wants. That seems to be a general rule, she always wants "more" than she has.

Naturally I also have my faults, I am very far from perfect, but I would still say that I am a reasonable decent husband. It's just also very hard for me to try my very best, when the end result is a slap in the face. I used to buy her flowers regularly, neclasses, give her loooong full body massages, bubblebaths in candle light, touch her, kiss her, do just about everything to make her feel she is respected and appreciated. But then just one by one these habbits started dying, normally after she went mad about them for some reason at some point.

We have thought about marriage counceling, we have talked, we have tried this and that, but nothing just seems to work.

Maybe it is that she is just dying from the inside, because she feels she is in prison, financially she is dependant on me (one way or the other), and otherwise with the kids. So I figured I will treat her with some weekend-trips or something, where she goes alone and I'm at home with the kids. Maybe some freedom would work for her. If not, then I think it really just means there is no way out. But "the" one.

I just feel so sad, we have a good, organised life, everything is calm and safe, we live in a beautiful country which full of possibilities, we have a happy home (at least the kids have), and all that. It just feels so unfair that she want's to through it all away. Because she is not "happy". She has also told me repeatedly how bad she feels inside because of me. But there doesn't seem to be anything I can do to make her happy, then leaving. Of course, she is the one who wants to stay in our current home with the kids. I'm the one who should look for some crappy place somewhere to live in, which I could barely afford.

I think I must be blind to some things, and like said, you are only hearing my side of the story. I just don't know.

But many thanks for all those advices and suggestions to all of you, it really helps me. Just keep them coming!
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Old 18.08.2009, 14:15
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Re: Divorce in Switzerland

My experience reading the EF for a good while is that most of the time (I repeat most of the time) we tend to show simpathy for the poster and not the other party who did not have a chance to tell their side.
This woman has lived with the OP for several years (having three kids) and all of a sudden something in changing. While I have no idea how old this woman is, I would not rule out the possibilities of midlife crisis, menopause, nervous breakdown and similar. As several people suggested, seek professional help.
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Old 18.08.2009, 14:21
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Re: Divorce in Switzerland

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Well, fair enough, you seem to have as objective an eye of the situation as someone in your position could, I guess. Best of luck. Take note of Cashboy's post, too. Hope for the best, plan for the worst.
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