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  #41  
Old 21.08.2009, 15:44
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Re: Diet Programs That Work

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Its a metaphorical question. So the point I made about "you cant just say eat less", you esponded "you say 'eat more' ?" in other words its either one or the other, yes or no. Of course its neither of those, its more complex than just saying "eat less or eat more" you have to take in energy burn rate (metabolism) lifestyle, excercise and so on. So I was trying to (light heartedly) give you the example I was always told when up with this argument. Ask someone have they stopped beating their wife yet, yes or no. The point being, its not a yes or no question. the answer is "i dont beat my wife".

I think the point hasnt come across very well. I will leave it on the forum as an argument-gone-wrong! no offence was meant at any stage rest assured.
No worries. I was because my wife would kick my @ss if I even tried (which I won't)
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  #42  
Old 21.08.2009, 15:45
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Re: Diet Programs That Work

I've always found that alternating weeks has worked for me if i want to loose a bit of weight. Odd weeks; convesional 'dieting', healthy food and less of it. Even weeks; eat more but excersize lots. This way you keep you metablism nice and high (via the eating and excersizing phases) and you dont get bored and break your diet as its only a week at a time.
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  #43  
Old 21.08.2009, 15:48
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Re: Diet Programs That Work

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No worries. I was because my wife would kick my @ss if I even tried (which I won't)
I wouldn't either with such a strong wife.
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  #44  
Old 21.08.2009, 15:54
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Re: Diet Programs That Work

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No not you at all Simon, I was annoyed at the condascending tone of the other poster (niranjan) when i was making a perfectly valid point that different people burn energy and different rates so it is unfair to point to obese people and simply say "eat less".
Oh, Mike, Mike, Mike,
Sorry if I sounded arrogant. I withdraw that statement
Peace
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  #45  
Old 21.08.2009, 16:05
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Re: Diet Programs That Work

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Yeah, ok fair answer, perhaps I should have quoted the other bloke who said its all about in vs out. Nice and easy statement but unless you know the rate at which you burn energy it's to general a statement. I can eat tonnes - loads - every day without excercise and my weight hardly moves. In summer I also follow the triathlon season and at its peak do excessive exercise every day. My weight never moves by more than 1KG either way. I eat about the same all year.

So how does that work then ?
How do you think/know it works?

Do you have a higher body fat percentage when not in your training periods, perhaps?

I would have gone along with Simon's deleted post that the human body is actually quite good at regulating if you look after it.
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  #46  
Old 21.08.2009, 16:19
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Re: Diet Programs That Work

Given that you are a triathelete you probaly have a very high metabolisim from the muscle you have and your training. I don't beleive you suddenly become a couch potato during off season either (speculating here) so you would continue to burn calories at a high rate? Or you could be one of the Ectomorphs that find it hard to gain weight.

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Yeah, ok fair answer, perhaps I should have quoted the other bloke who said its all about in vs out. Nice and easy statement but unless you know the rate at which you burn energy it's to general a statement. I can eat tonnes - loads - every day without excercise and my weight hardly moves. In summer I also follow the triathlon season and at its peak do excessive exercise every day. My weight never moves by more than 1KG either way. I eat about the same all year.

So how does that work then ?
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  #47  
Old 21.08.2009, 16:26
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Re: Diet Programs That Work

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Given that you are a triathelete you probaly have a very high metabolisim from the muscle you have and your training. I don't beleive you suddenly become a couch potato during off season either (speculating here) so you would continue to burn calories at a high rate? Or you could be one of the Ectomorphs that find it hard to gain weight.
Would you say that there were a lot more Ectomorphs in Switzerland than the U.K?

Go, for example, into your local branch of Migros and then go into a U.K branch of Tesco, for example and compare the size of people?
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  #48  
Old 21.08.2009, 16:31
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Re: Diet Programs That Work

People in Migros tend to be much smaller/thinner than in Tescos. I would say in general there are a lot more Ectomorphs here.

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Would you say that there were a lot more Ectomorphs in Switzerland than the U.K?

Go, for example, into your local branch of Migros and then go into a U.K branch of Tesco, for example and compare the size of people?
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  #49  
Old 21.08.2009, 16:38
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Re: Diet Programs That Work

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People in Migros tend to be much smaller/thinner than in Tescos. I would say in general there are a lot more Ectomorphs here.
And would you say this was evolutionary through natural selection or enforced through immigration?

I don't believe the time span is long enough for the former and I don't think the latter occurs.

Perhaps it is just simply that here, people eat less, eat in a healthier way and take more exercise?
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Old 21.08.2009, 16:42
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Re: Diet Programs That Work

I think people here are more active and health aware than in UK. While hiking very old Swiss people sometimes leave me behind. Also observe the contents of supermarket trolleys in UK compared to Coop/Migros etc

Nice pants!

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  #51  
Old 21.08.2009, 17:01
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Re: Diet Programs That Work

Plasto-morph...
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  #52  
Old 21.08.2009, 17:13
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Re: Diet Programs That Work

Some of ya'll simplify things a bit much, that's ok though, most do when they don't "need" to diet.

For many folks (those with endocrine problems) it is as much or more about WHAT you eat than how much as well as what time you eat.

I'm heavy, I know I need to eat less... but less than what? I know I need more exercise but where to start?

I've already seen threads where ya'll make fun of fat folks out exercising, who wants to deal with that when they're trying to get and stay motivated?? I've lost money on gym memberships more than once because of such attitudes of other gym goers.


So far as Swiss healthy diet. O M Goodness I laugh so hard (in my mind at least) when folks say that. Perhaps the diet here IS particularly healthy for folks FROM here but I gotta say... I've never been presented with such fatty food as a normal daily diet in my life!

I can not / do not eat so much rich meat. The preponderance of sausages, veal or breaded and fried (or some combination of the three!) simply makes my head spin... and more importantly, it makes my gall bladder scream out in agony. I'll stick to my modified low-fat Tex-Mex style of cooking, tyvm!


When I was pregnant I told my doc that I was having trouble with my tummy rumbling (hunger pangs) so strongly it was uncomfy about every 2 hrs. She told me to eat bread and cheese instead of fruit or veggies.
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  #53  
Old 21.08.2009, 19:54
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Re: Diet Programs That Work

If your goal is weight loss, dieting alone may not be effective. Your body may require certain nutrients, and lets you know by manifesting cravings. If you continually deprive your body nutrients it needs, your energy level can drop or you can get sick. Your body may go to a low-energy burn mode to adjust to your lower calorie intake. If you should have a lapse and binge eat during this time, you may end up worse than when you started.

The key to weight loss is to increase your energy burn rate. This is where mental attitude and exercise comes in. I think one of the key things people overlook when trying to get in shape is the role muscle play. Basically, the more muscle tissue you have, the more energy you use up. And building muscle tissue in itself requires a lot of energy. With enough muscle, you can burn calories much more effectively.

Aerobic exercises with little muscle training may be an uphill way to burn fat. But if you do more muscle building with aerobics, its possible to turn fat into lean muscle.

So with this approach, it is possible to lose weight while eating more, assuming you eat the things that contribute to muscle building, and exercise.

My advise then is to not focus on deprivation diets. Instead; live hard and fast. You're body will take shape according to how you live.
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  #54  
Old 21.08.2009, 21:12
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Re: Diet Programs That Work

PegA don't care about what people say or think. You got to do it for yourself and not for others. Your health should be your motivating factor. Plenty of big people in my gym and there is one I am particularly impressed with. She really works hard and never gives up. I always say hello to her so that she never thinks that people don't want her there.

Starving will never help anyone nor any fad diet threads that keep popping on EF. Sure you will loose some weight but it will be back eventually. It really is about lifestyle change. Eat quality food in the right quantity and exercise. Just as an example I eat **** loads of veggies and it makes me feel full but at the same time it does not add any fat. I have almost completely cut out most artery choking saturated fats and processed trash. It's not easy but it can be done. Your taste will evolve and you won't miss the bad things (chocolate/ice cream is exception) Hey! Life is a struggle!
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So far as Swiss healthy diet. O M Goodness I laugh so hard (in my mind at least) when folks say that. Perhaps the diet here IS particularly healthy for folks FROM here but I gotta say... I've never been presented with such fatty food as a normal daily diet in my life!
Well there are unhealthy and healthy people in every country. Just because someone is thin does not mean that their arteries can't be all choking if they eat like the way you are describing. Also you might not be around when they might be busting their back side in the gym or playing hard sports to try and balance their bad habits

I mean I see people who do really hard cardio and then come out and smoke few cigarettes and eat huge kebab. Totally counter productive! My point is look for people who will impress and motivate you with good habits rather than people who are addicted to bad habits Small steps my friend.

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....Aerobic exercises with little muscle training may be an uphill way to burn fat. But if you do more muscle building with aerobics, its possible to turn fat into lean muscle.
Fat can never be turned into muscle and muscle never into fat. Just as I can never become godly and you never faithless
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  #55  
Old 21.08.2009, 21:51
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Re: Diet Programs That Work

There are lots of different programs that work, but the question is whether or not you can keep weight off long term. Something like 70 to 90% of people who loose weight gain it back within a year or two. And the problem is that your body becomes more efficient every time you reduce your eating, and this slows down your metabolism, so that each time it's harder and harder to loose weight. Plus there are hormonal, metabolic changes - menopause, for example, creates a lot of changes in women. Stress can result in increased cortisol which can tend to distribute fat in your abdomen. And yes, genetics play an important role. Some people are constitutionally thin, others tend towards heaviness.

For me, what seems to work is to write down what I eat, try to limit portions and try to eat when I'm hungry, not when I'm bored or stressed. If I think I'm hungry, I drink something first. But if I really want something, I eat it without beating myself over the head. No forbidden food. I also try to walk every day. The thing is that you have to create a way of eating and movement that you can live with for the rest of your life. People who work with disordered eating (including binge eating) patients suggest keeping a food diary. The iPhone is great for that, but different things work for different people.

At the very core it is an issue of expending more energy than you take in. However, eating is something that we do every day, it has enormous social implications and food has psychological meaning beyond nourishment, for some people, anyway. You get nowhere hating yourself for not being a particular weight. And if you're able to loose weight and keep it off, good for you. If you can't, well, then try to be as healthy as you can. And don't tolerate teasing or nasty comments.

I have lost some weight since we moved here. Most of that I attribute to a reduction in stress, and treating some medical issues. I have a bit more to loose. I am comfortable with myself, however. I also do research on how images in mass media impact the way women feel about their bodies, so I'm always interested in how we talk about "diets".

But when all else fails, I suppose beer is still the answer.
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  #56  
Old 21.08.2009, 22:42
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Re: Diet Programs That Work

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Oh, Mike, Mike, Mike,
Sorry if I sounded arrogant. I withdraw that statement
Peace
accepted. tantrum withdrawn.
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  #57  
Old 21.08.2009, 22:43
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Re: Diet Programs That Work

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Yeah, ok fair answer, perhaps I should have quoted the other bloke who said its all about in vs out. Nice and easy statement but unless you know the rate at which you burn energy it's to general a statement. I can eat tonnes - loads - every day without excercise and my weight hardly moves. In summer I also follow the triathlon season and at its peak do excessive exercise every day. My weight never moves by more than 1KG either way. I eat about the same all year.

So how does that work then ?


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How do you think/know it works?

Do you have a higher body fat percentage when not in your training periods, perhaps?

I would have gone along with Simon's deleted post that the human body is actually quite good at regulating if you look after it.
I spoke to my wife as she seems to know about these things and she said if you have a raised metabolism because of your fitness / muscles etc, it doesn't immediately drop (and your muscles don't immediately disappear), if you either cut down on exercise or increase your food intake.
She reckons it takes about six months to a year to affect this enough to start noticing a difference.

So, if you you want to really know if you're special, or your actually just like everyone else then stop exercising for at least a year and carry on eating loads .
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Old 21.08.2009, 23:34
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Re: Diet Programs That Work

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Fat can never be turned into muscle and muscle never into fat. Just as I can never become godly and you never faithless
No, fat is burned, while muscles are built. Not unlike the ungodly and godly.
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  #59  
Old 21.08.2009, 23:44
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Re: Diet Programs That Work

The main problem is the change in lifestyles from industrial to modernity, ie sitting on you arse all day in front of a pc and then picking the kids up, doing the shopping and all the other stuff. By the end of it how much time do people have left to actually take care of themselves properly ? I come from a working class backgound, my dad was a scafolder and worked on the rigs, brother was a builder ... I got an education and sit in front of a pc. I have a migros gym membership but has anyone seen the people in these places (another thread here...)
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Old 21.08.2009, 23:55
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Re: Diet Programs That Work

I have a friend who describes herself as a neo-darwinist. Her recent speaking rounds were on the topic of physiology and lifestyle. Her explanation of her thesis to me covered weight gain, particularly in the US. A quick synopsis of her thesis:

In the U.S., there is a behavioral pattern of gratifying every indulgence a person craves. Some treat themselves as babies, so in their physiology, their bodies adapt to their way of living. The result; their bodies are taking more and more the proportions and shapes of babies.... big babies.

Her recommendation: delay gratifications
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