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Old 15.09.2009, 11:42
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One year old battered at nursery!!

My son who is one year old has come back from his nursery for the second week in a row (he goes once a week on mondays) covered in cuts & bruises (all over his head & face) but this time has a 7mm cut under his eye. As you can understand, I am not very happy.

The story goes that there is a 3 year old boy who tricks the staff into thinking he is asleep then pounces on other children & generally batters them whilst they are asleep. This has also happened to 2 little Italian girls of the same age (the day after it happened to my son).

My wife told them that she would take him out if it happened again but unfortunately I cannot get the monday off work so we think it may be better to ask them if this boy could be taken out (he goes every day) as we were pleased about his care until this happened.

The problem (I think) is because they sometimes allow teenage staff to look for the children without the older owner (or one other older supervisor) being there.

Though my wife seems to think we can do nothing about it (but she is also very upset about it) I think we can, it is a GmbH running the nursery by the way.

Any thoughts or advice from previous experience would be appreciated.

I was particularly concerned that this boy could have damaged my boy's eye. We have taken some photographs in case we need evidence as I would be inclined to take action against this nursery.

We are waiting for a call back from the owner though my wife (who will speak to them) is not very good at getting angry & my German is just not good enough for a matter so serious.
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Old 15.09.2009, 11:45
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Re: One year old battered at nursery!!

take you son to the hospital to get him checked, as I understand it the nursery will be sent the bill and it will all be logged. Also don't send you boy back to that nursery!!!
Don't staff have to be qualified here?? leaving babies to the care of unsupervised teenagers isn't on.
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Old 15.09.2009, 11:51
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Re: One year old battered at nursery!!

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take you son to the hospital to get him checked, as I understand it the nursery will be sent the bill and it will all be logged. Also don't send you boy back to that nursery!!!
Don't staff have to be qualified here?? leaving babies to the care of unsupervised teenagers isn't on.
I second this. Get to the hospital, make a report. Get officials involved. Don't sit quiet. It's people who do nothing about a situation who make me mad. This just leaves someone else a potential victim with perhaps worse consquences. So your son was lucky...this time.
Sounds like the daycare needs an inspection. Get the authorities onto that right away. Don't wait until we read about this in the Blick.
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Old 15.09.2009, 11:51
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Re: One year old battered at nursery!!

Injuries such as this should be logged in the accident book at the nursery (we have a few entries of our own in the one at my son's nursery )

The teenagers are probably praktikantinnen and shouldn't be left unsupervised with the kids.

I don't think the solution is to remove either the offender or the victims. This kind of problem needs to be tackled and the behaviour changed somehow.

Make a big noise with the nursery and let them know you will keep everything documented.
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Old 15.09.2009, 11:55
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Re: One year old battered at nursery!!

I do agree with Sandgrounder.

Go to the hospital. Report first to the nursery (incl. mentioning that the kids are sometimes unsupervised. Speak with the owner/head. And depending on that answer you can also file a complaint with the authorities.


Good Luck.
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Old 15.09.2009, 12:33
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Re: One year old battered at nursery!!

Well I honestly think that the offender should be taken out. If it has happened twice then the nursary should have taken measures to make sure it doesnt happen again. What if he puts a pencil in the other childs eye or somthing.

You should have a meeting with both the parents of the other child and the nursary owners. Also you need to ask the owner if she is doing anything to make sure it does not happen again.

Afterall you are paying them. It is their job to make sure your child is safe.
I have 2 kids of my own 2 and 3.5 and it is difficult to work if you are continoulsy worried about these issues...
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Old 15.09.2009, 12:52
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Re: One year old battered at nursery!!

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We are waiting for a call back from the owner though my wife (who will speak to them) is not very good at getting angry & my German is just not good enough for a matter so serious.
There's no need to get angry. Just tell the owner you are taking your son to hospital and will file an official report.. then ask him simply, what is he going to do to ensure your son's safety?
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Old 15.09.2009, 13:15
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Re: One year old battered at nursery!!

I'm not getting angry, I am livid!

The fact that it happened the first time is enough, the second time in a row is beyond belief... ..we are still waiting for a call back and if it does not come by 2pm I will go down there. I think an unarranged visit would be best anyway 1) to see if the children are without an older carer & 2) to press them on the accident book issue (asking them to produce it with my son's incident in it).

I should say that my wife does not want to take this very far (& yes, because of that it has caused a major row), her belief is that the staff might then somehow hold it against our son. I could never reason this though I don't think he needs hospital care myself & I'm sorry if I alarmed anyone with saying he had a 7mm cut, more like a scratch, below the eye.

We will base any decision on what the owner says he will do though I am very reluctant to make him have to go back (he wasn't happy to yesterday).

I will also insist that this boy's parents are told about all the incidents and maybe that all the other parents know the situation. Thanks to those who have given some good advice....the story continues..
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Old 15.09.2009, 13:19
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Re: One year old battered at nursery!!

Just out of curiosity .. Is your wife Swiss ?

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I'm not getting angry, I am livid!



I should say that my wife does not want to take this very far (& yes, because of that it has caused a major row), her belief is that the staff might then somehow hold it against our son.

Last edited by evilshell; 15.09.2009 at 13:37. Reason: fixed quote tag, removed underline without a hyperlink
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Old 15.09.2009, 13:26
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Re: One year old battered at nursery!!

[QUOTE=zanskar;549884]Just out of curiosity .. Is your wife Swiss ?

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I'm not getting angry, I am livid!



I should say that my wife does not want to take this very far (& yes, because of that it has caused a major row), her belief is that the staff might then somehow hold it against our son.
Yes!
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Old 15.09.2009, 13:30
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Re: One year old battered at nursery!!

This is not as uncommon as you may think and has to do with the structure of Swiss pre-schools. The Swiss generally favour "family like" krippes which means that they basically force the Krippes to have age mixed groups. I.e. two babies in a group of 8-10 kids of mixed ages up to around 4 years. The rules for Krippes were up until only a year ago _only_ allowing this structure.

The issue of lots of teenagers stems from the same Krippenrules. The rules are very strict when it comes to how many adults you have to be on each group of children. As they are very high, the only way for a Krippe to survive financially is to have one Praktikantin on each teacher. This is something the Aufsichtsbehörde is fully aware of and take into account as they are the ones setting the rules. This even more so as they also stipulate minimum salary levels for teachers which are driving these salaries up.

Another rule that favours problems like the one you mention is the rules about space. The rules stipulate that you have to have at least two rooms for each group, one for play and one for rest, and again the day should be in a family like environment. That means that you may very well have kids sleeping in one room and others playing in the next. It is of course then not to wonder when the sleeping kids will receive less attention while the teachers focus on the playing kids in the next room.

So on paper Swiss Krippes seem very good as they have lots of staff on each group, lots of space and they have a "family atmosphere". But in reality it creates exactly the kind of environments you are experiencing. Bigger kids bothering the smaller ones, lack of supervision due to the space and lots of teenagers taking care of the kids.
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Old 15.09.2009, 13:31
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Re: One year old battered at nursery!!

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The fact that it happened the first time is enough, the second time in a row is beyond belief... ..we are still waiting for a call back and if it does not come by 2pm I will go down there. I think an unarranged visit would be best anyway 1) to see if the children are without an older carer & 2) to press them on the accident book issue (asking them to produce it with my son's incident in it).
Not sure what the standard is but in our case the parent has to countersign the accident book. Check that with them, too.

I agree with Swisstree that you should try to keep a lid on your anger. You have a big enough complaint to throw at them without having to shout. Of course, let them know how serious you are and you want answers but losing your rag with them doesn't help.
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Old 15.09.2009, 13:32
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Re: One year old battered at nursery!!

Sorry transition, I didn't mean you should not be angry (I would too be in a rage) I was referring to your wife, if she fails to to let the owner know how angry she is, it doesn't matter as long as she informs him that she will take it up officially, he will then listen and make it his business to ensure your son's safety..
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Old 15.09.2009, 13:42
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Re: One year old battered at nursery!!

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So on paper Swiss Krippes seem very good as they have lots of staff on each group, lots of space and they have a "family atmosphere". But in reality it creates exactly the kind of environments you are experiencing. Bigger kids bothering the smaller ones, lack of supervision due to the space and lots of teenagers taking care of the kids.
Our son's nursery separates the young ones from the older kids for much of the day and the nursery which my friend uses applies the same thing.

Yes, they do mix but its in the same room and they are all supervised. Eating is also together but the under ones have their own room to sleep (mainly because they sleep more often and for a shorter time than the toddlers).

I think this works well and have noticed that my son is very mindful of younger children (to the point where he "mothers" them and is very protective). Also, when he was much younger, his development was brought on much more quickly because he was mixing with older kids.
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Old 15.09.2009, 13:43
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Re: One year old battered at nursery!!

I am angry...but...I never intended to express it by shouting or generally being loud.

In the back of my mind is the fact that up to now the staff have been friendly, helpful & in general they particularly like my son (who smiles a lot & rarely cries). We even had an open day brunch there to get to know everyone much better a few months back.

We never would have imagined that this could happen really but they were honest about how it happened, the fact that it happened again is what gets to me. From Tilla's post I now see how it all works, thanks, very helpful.....and I don't think I have any agenda to criticize this set-up. Up until now I had no complaints & if they can deal with our concerns I don't see the point in taking him out. He was happy there until this incident...

Last edited by transition; 15.09.2009 at 13:56.
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Old 15.09.2009, 13:51
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Re: One year old battered at nursery!!

Hello there!

I am so sorry for what has happenned to your son, we have an 11 months old ourselves and I would be so angry and in a rage if this happened, especially as it seems to be recurring.

I think what needs to happen is that you need to ensure that the Krippe is taking the incidents seriously enough so I would demand to know what steps have being taken already and how they plan to follow through. I would make it clear to them that at this point you are afraid for the child safety and therefore they need to step up responsibilities.

In our Krippe there are 8 "babies" in the baby group, with 3 attendants. 2 are adults, 1 fully certified and 1 in her studies and then there is the praktikantin.

However, the children are alone when they sleep in their room and I do not believe we can expect them to sit with the sleeping children (I would rather they focus on the awake ones) but monitors are used and interventions made as needed.

I also think more in general that unfortunately these things happen and are part of growing up. Interventions should be requested but we also need to understand that children being children there will always be some amouont of "physical interaction"

Ma daughter was bitten on the arm by another 4 tooth baby when she was 7 months and it broke my heart thinking about her hurt and crying and me not there, I was so angry... but then again I know these things happen and will wherever there is an environment with many growing children. I am unfortunately also sure that at one point she will be the offender, all part of growing up...

What helped me was that the staff handled it really well, they told me and told me the protocol and explained what they did to calm her down etc etc.

Lastly, and I then I stop as I am blabbering, I think we should try not to let our anger towards the Krippe through to the little ones or they may pick up on it and become anxious when going. As hard as it is, for them that should still be seen as a good place and we should take care of the matter without them.

Pls do let us know how it went

K
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Old 15.09.2009, 14:04
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Re: One year old battered at nursery!!

It is always a good idea to get to know and talk with other parents of the kids in Nursery at pick-up or dropping-off times. If you know or can find out about other incidents from other parents & children, it makes your case stronger(and less of a one-off) if you refer to these when speaking with the owner.

Your wife might then feel less in the spot-light/ less isolated when making a complaint if she feels she has the support of other concerned parents. Any chance you have a telefon alarm in the nursery i.e other parent's telephone numbers? You could call some to ask if they know anything about your son being hurt.
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Old 15.09.2009, 14:48
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Re: One year old battered at nursery!!

OK...we had a call back and....the main owner & supervisor has breast cancer & has had to have daily appointments so has taken her eye off the ball recently, she profusely apologized because in her absence the nursery is left to 2 supervisors who would take their breaks together (my wife has seen this as she works nearby) leaving just the praktikantin there alone.

She said procedure was not followed as one person must always supervise the young ones when they are sleeping. She knew nothing about the first (with my boy) & other incidents but only learned yesterday when my wife threatened to take our boy out.

Apparantly, it was my son who 'started' the first scrap by waking up & wandering over to the big boy she was told by one of the supervisors who is anyway shortly leaving, well at least we had a laugh at that with her. The same supervisor was responsible for the accident book which it would seem, has been gathering dust on a top shelf.

Right now, we are sure a full-on bollocking is taking place & by the end of today we are assured, this will never happen again.
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Old 15.09.2009, 15:29
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Re: One year old battered at nursery!!

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take you son to the hospital to get him checked, as I understand it the nursery will be sent the bill and it will all be logged. Also don't send you boy back to that nursery!!!
Don't staff have to be qualified here?? leaving babies to the care of unsupervised teenagers isn't on.
completely illegal to have unqualified staff watch young children.
speak to the authorities (not sure if this is the gemeinde or the canton) and threaten the nursery with closure unless they throw out the offender.
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Old 15.09.2009, 15:38
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Re: One year old battered at nursery!!

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completely illegal to have unqualified staff watch young children.
speak to the authorities (not sure if this is the gemeinde or the canton) and threaten the nursery with closure unless they throw out the offender.
Praktikanten are not "unqualified". They are trainees and are under supervision. Unless you are suggesting that newly qualified people with absolutely no practical experience is somehow a good idea in a real situation?
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