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Guest 12.12.2009 21:55

Cell phone radiation [are mobiles hazardous to your health?]
 
Any thoughts on mobile phone radiation and its dangers to people? The mobile industry is quite active in drowning out unfavorable opinions about mobile phone radiation. Anyone know of any real scientific research, as opposed to scientific research that can be bought?

sojoh 12.12.2009 22:41

Re: Cell phone radiation and minarets
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Phos (Post 641856)
Any thoughts on mobile phone radiation and its dangers to people? The mobile industry is quite active in drowning out unfavorable opinions about mobile phone radiation. Anyone know of any real scientific research, as opposed to scientific research that can be bought?

When I asked my mother's neurosurgeon at Johns Hopkins Hospital about the possible correlation between brain cancer and cell phones, he was fast to respond that he keeps his cell phone far from his head and far from his reproductive organ. This was after he told me that he is seeing a noticeable increase in the number of patients with glioblastoma multiforme (GBM), a particularly nasty form of terminal brain cancer.

Here's a link for an interesting article: http://www.radiationresearch.org/pdfs/reasons_us.pdf

After watching my mother die from GBM in October, my family is keeping our cell phones as far from our heads as possible just in case there is a connection. I haven't checked, but it seems that some manuals for cell phones advise users to keep the phone 1 1/2 inches from the body. I wonder why?:rolleyes:

NotAllThere 12.12.2009 22:48

Re: Cell phone radiation and minarets
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by sojoh (Post 641874)
... I haven't checked, but it seems that some manuals for cell phones advise users to keep the phone 1 1/2 inches from the body. I wonder why?:rolleyes:

Apparently :msnsarcastic: using a handsfree set makes it worse, as the extra wire acts as an aerial.

Shorrick Mk2 12.12.2009 23:03

Re: Cell phone radiation and minarets
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by sojoh (Post 641874)
After watching my mother die from GBM in October, my family is keeping our cell phones as far from our heads as possible just in case there is a connection. I haven't checked, but it seems that some manuals for cell phones advise users to keep the phone 1 1/2 inches from the body. I wonder why?:rolleyes:

Did your mother use her mobile phone a lot?

sojoh 12.12.2009 23:07

Re: Cell phone radiation and minarets
 
Just to be on the safe side, here are 8 tips to reduce exposure to cell phone radiation from the article that I mentioned above:


1. When on a call, use a wired headset (not a wireless headset such as a Bluetooth), or use in speaker-phone mode, or send text messages.

2. Keep the cellphone away from your body (particularly pant/trouser or shirt pockets) or use a belt holster designed to shield the body from cellphone radiation, when not in use (stand-by mode).
3. Avoid use in a moving car, train, bus, or in rural areas at some distance from a cell tower (AKA mast or base station) as any of these uses will increase the power of the cellphone’s radiation.
4. Use the cellphone like an answering machine. Keep it off until you want to see who has called. Then return calls, if necessary, using steps 5 and 1.
5. Use a corded land-line phone, whenever possible, instead of a wireless phone.
6. Avoid use inside of buildings, particularly with steel structures.
7. Do not allow your children to sleep with a cellphone beneath their pillow or at the bedside.


8. Do not allow your children under 18 to use a cellphone except in emergencies.

sojoh 12.12.2009 23:16

Re: Cell phone radiation and minarets
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Shorrick Mk2 (Post 641890)
Did your mother use her mobile phone a lot?

My mother didn't use her cell phone as frequently as many people, but we did talk for long periods at a time. I'm not sure if her cell phone played a role in her getting brain cancer or not, but her neurosurgeon's response to my question about cell phones caught my attention and makes me want to be more careful in the future.

Guest 13.12.2009 00:20

Re: Cell phone radiation and minarets
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by sojoh (Post 641904)
My mother didn't use her cell phone as frequently as many people, but we did talk for long periods at a time. I'm not sure if her cell phone played a role in her getting brain cancer or not, but her neurosurgeon's response to my question about cell phones caught my attention and makes me want to be more careful in the future.


I'm sorry about your mom. I've heard a lot about the dangers, but don't know what to make of it. I do know it emits a pretty powerful signal. Before LED monitors, my phone would scramble my CRT monitor whenever it rings. And it scrambles my car radio when driving by certain places.

I think a lot of people are familiar with that. I've even heard the signal sampled by some punk bands.

What is bothersome is that I don't know of any credible and adequate research. I've heard of some statistics, but actual science on what is does to the body. One study I read said that it has the effect of clumping up red bloods cells during and immediately after use. But I don't know how scientific the study was.

Thanks for the advise. I will try to put it into practice.

13.12.2009 00:40

Re: Cell phone radiation
 
Actually, bluetooth is nearly totally harmless. A bluetooth headset emit next to no radiation, a wired headset is almost an extension of the phone and so is almost as harmful.

22 yards 13.12.2009 00:49

Re: Cell phone radiation
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by economisto (Post 641953)
Actually, bluetooth is nearly totally harmless. A bluetooth headset emit next to no radiation, a wired headset is almost an extension of the phone and so is almost as harmful.

As an habitual mobile phone user, I'm really interested in this topic. economisto, do you have any sources for those two claims? I'd like to read further.

Treverus 13.12.2009 00:54

Re: Cell phone radiation
 
Ok, I stick my head out and tell you that I used to work at one of the main manufacturer of mobile phone equipment.

To answer you question: There are plenty of studies out there, half saying no and half saying yes. I personally believe that non of them is completely unbiased. I am neither a doctor, not a good researcher, but I am fairly sure that cancer is usually a result of some long term factors. Since mobile phones have been around for only two to three decades in the current form, any prediction has a lot of speculation in it.

Facts as far as I am concerned:
- Radiation is in general not very healthy.
- Mobile phone radiation is in the micro wave lenght spectrum, which is really not very healthy.
- The same technology is used to cook meals or even for defense technology
- A microwave oven has some hundred watts while a phone has less than a Milliwatt. It would take more than 1,5 Million mobile phones to deliver the same radiation my microwave oven does. This is very little radiation.
- Many of the tips I read on the Internet are complete rubbish. For example the one above on not using bluetooth headsets: The bluetooth headset connects to a phone which is a meter away. The phone connects to a base station which is maybe 400 Meter away. Guess which one emits more radiation... so while I leave it open if the phone is really unhealthy, a wireless headset would surely lower the risk.

One of the most interesting points I know about: The question is actually not only how strong the radiation is, but the direction. A microwave oven focusses many rays on one spot to heat it. The "stick" antennas old mobiles had send out the rays nearly parallel. This should in theory have very little effect. The phones with build-in antennas will always radiate in a less parallel fashion, but consumers seemed to have preferred the designs.

I personally believe that the danger is very very small. I am probably exposed to other things that have a worse effect than my mobile phone, from the various things added in food to chemicals in clothes or cars or furniture or wall paint.

Treverus 13.12.2009 01:03

Re: Cell phone radiation
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by 22 yards (Post 641960)
As an habitual mobile phone user, I'm really interested in this topic. economisto, do you have any sources for those two claims? I'd like to read further.

"A Bluetooth earpiece still has radiation, but it's at least 100 times less than the radiation you get when you hold a cell phone to your head, Havas says.

Our experts were split on which was better: a Bluetooth headset or a wired one. Israeli government recommendations issued this week specifically suggest a wire; Havas likes the Bluetooth. But even she says not to wear it when you're not talking; it still sends out a signal.

"Bluetooth is only whispering radiation into your ear. The problem is, some people wear it all the time," she says. "At the very least, switch it from ear to ear so you don't have too much exposure on one side."

Michael Foley, Ph.D., executive director of the Bluetooth Special Interest Group, says Bluetooth earpieces radiate 200 times less energy than cell phones. "There is no evidence that a Bluetooth headset has any adverse effects on its users," he said."

Source

Angela-74 13.12.2009 01:39

Re: Cell phone radiation and minarets
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Phos (Post 641947)
I'm sorry about your mom. I've heard a lot about the dangers, but don't know what to make of it. I do know it emits a pretty powerful signal. Before LED monitors, my phone would scramble my CRT monitor whenever it rings. And it scrambles my car radio when driving by certain places.

I think a lot of people are familiar with that. I've even heard the signal sampled by some punk bands.

What is bothersome is that I don't know of any credible and adequate research. I've heard of some statistics, but actual science on what is does to the body. One study I read said that it has the effect of clumping up red bloods cells during and immediately after use. But I don't know how scientific the study was.

Thanks for the advise. I will try to put it into practice.

Unfortunately cell phones have been masively used only in the last 15 years, been in the market longer though. Cancer being a long latency disease (takes it years to actually develop) is a difficult outcome to study. Unfortunately I said because we will need mroe years, and more studies to come up with a definite answer. Ill check on the epid of GBM, not my area of expertise but then Ill post something more decent...
BTW sorry about your mother

sojoh 13.12.2009 10:30

Re: Cell phone radiation and minarets
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Angela-74 (Post 641973)
Unfortunately cell phones have been masively used only in the last 15 years, been in the market longer though. Cancer being a long latency disease (takes it years to actually develop) is a difficult outcome to study. Unfortunately I said because we will need mroe years, and more studies to come up with a definite answer. Ill check on the epid of GBM, not my area of expertise but then Ill post something more decent...

Thanks, Angela, I look forward to reading your post.

As you mention, cancer is a long latency disease. The following is from the report on radiation LINK that I mentioned in my first post. I'm not sure about the validity of the studies that are mentioned, but it does make me think that people with young children may want to more closely monitor their children's cell phone usuage.

An Israeli study of brain tumors resulting from scalp irradiation of children (average 7 years of age) with X-rays found 40 years later, that the children who were exposed when they were younger than 5 years had the highest risk (a 356% increased risk of a brain tumor), children who were irradiated between 5 and 10 years of age had a 224% increased risk, and those who were irradiated at over 10 years of age, had a 47% increased risk of a brain tumor. [37]

Brain tumor risk increases as the age of an exposed child decreases. But the age at exposure has no effect on latency time. Whether children or adults, the latency time between first exposure and brain tumor diagnosis remains the same (~30 years). [37]

If the risk of brain tumors is still increasing after 40 years from a single X-ray to the scalp, could it also be that risk of brain tumors would still be increasing 40 years after children first started using cellphones? In response to this question the appropriate thing to do would be to take precautionary measures now instead of taking no action and waiting to see what may
happen. See Appendix 2, The Precautionary Principle Applied to Cellphone Use for a description of appropriate actions.

Compounding this concern is a recently published Swedish study reporting a 420% increased risk of brain tumors from cellphone use, and a 340% increase risk from cordless phone use when wireless phone use began as teenagers or younger. [30

NotAllThere 13.12.2009 11:27

Re: Cell phone radiation [are mobiles hazardous to your health?]
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by NotAllThere (Post 641879)
Apparently :msnsarcastic: using a handsfree set makes it worse, as the extra wire acts as an aerial.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sojoh (Post 641896)
J...
1. When on a call, use a wired headset ...

I'll stick to wearing my foil hat.

Although microwave ovens and mobile phones use the same wavelengths, 1 m – 100mm, the difference is that in the former, they are focused. A car headlight might have a 50w bulb, but it is a lot brighter than what we (used to) use at home. Because it focused. Anyway, the brain is very good at getting rid of any excess heat cause by microwaves from phones, which in any case is less than would be cause from sitting in direct sunlight.

btw - no one is confusing ionising radiation with rf radiation, are they? Good. Just checking.

Anyway, the latest research has found that mobile phones have no significant health effect. I do recall seeing a program where one woman complained that she'd had neck stiffness and headaches after using her mobile phone, which had gone away when she switched to handsfree. Turn out the daft bint had been tucking it between her shoulder and ear when she use it...

A 2006 study of several hundred thousand Danes, showed no increase in cancer among mobile phone users over a 20 year period.

Slaphead 13.12.2009 11:50

Re: Cell phone radiation [are mobiles hazardous to your health?]
 
You know, I've read studies that say that use of mobiles/cellphones/handys does statistically increase the risk to your health, and others that say there is no statistical evidence to support the idea that use of mobiles is harmful.

The problem is that due to the large timespan from the initial radiation exposure to developing such conditions as tumors, and no reliable way to measure accumulative exposure, means that good solid figures on which this research depends on are to be honest still very thin on the ground.

Other factors that impede this research are the change of technologies, change of user base, and the various different frequencies that have been employed during the mobile communications revolution. At the very start we had purely analogue based phones, of which the majority were car phones with a smattering of handhelds becoming available later. Given the general cost of purchasing and running these units there was a relatively small user base at this time. Also these units used frequencies somewhat lower than we're using today, and with the handhelds you were lucky to get a talktime of more than 30mins on a single battery charge. So I think it would be difficult to find any statistical significance here.

Mobile technology really became popular amongst the general populous around the mid to late nineties, and by the turn of the century the majority of adults had one. These 2G phones used, and still do use, higher frequencies than the old analogue phones, but note that I mentioned adults here. Adults have fully developed bodies and brains so therefore there is a much reduced chance of the radiation affecting any developmental process of the body. It's really only around 5 years ago that mobile use became prevalent amongst teenagers who are still growing and developing and thus are more at risk. Also consider that the technologies have again changed (3G) and employ yet higher frequencies. For me this is effectively the start of any real meaningful data. As mentioned above there can be a great length of time between the damage done by the radiation and the symptoms appearing. Based on this I believe that we are still 15 to 20 years from having a enough reliable data to base any definitive conclusions on.

That said I've always believed that putting a transmitter to your head cannot be a particularly good idea, so I have a couple of rules that I use:-

Text/SMS whenever possible - if you don't need an immediate answer then text

Keep calls to under 5 minutes - easy for me, I'm a bloke, most of my calls last 30 seconds or less ;)

And finally, I never answer when driving - even with a headset. There's never going to be a phone call that can't wait until I've found a safe place to pull over. (This one has nothing to do with radiation by the way, just common sense)

Slaphead 13.12.2009 11:51

Re: Cell phone radiation [are mobiles hazardous to your health?]
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by NotAllThere (Post 642026)
btw - no one is confusing ionising radiation with rf radiation, are they?

No ;)

The message you have entered is too short. Please lengthen your message to at least 10 characters.

Angela-74 13.12.2009 13:12

Re: Cell phone radiation and minarets
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by sojoh (Post 642018)
Thanks, Angela, I look forward to reading your post.

As you mention, cancer is a long latency disease. The following is from the report on radiation LINK that I mentioned in my first post. I'm not sure about the validity of the studies that are mentioned, but it does make me think that people with young children may want to more closely monitor their children's cell phone usuage.

An Israeli study of brain tumors resulting from scalp irradiation of children (average 7 years of age) with X-rays found 40 years later, that the children who were exposed when they were younger than 5 years had the highest risk (a 356% increased risk of a brain tumor), children who were irradiated between 5 and 10 years of age had a 224% increased risk, and those who were irradiated at over 10 years of age, had a 47% increased risk of a brain tumor. [37]

Brain tumor risk increases as the age of an exposed child decreases. But the age at exposure has no effect on latency time. Whether children or adults, the latency time between first exposure and brain tumor diagnosis remains the same (~30 years). [37]

If the risk of brain tumors is still increasing after 40 years from a single X-ray to the scalp, could it also be that risk of brain tumors would still be increasing 40 years after children first started using cellphones? In response to this question the appropriate thing to do would be to take precautionary measures now instead of taking no action and waiting to see what may
happen. See Appendix 2, The Precautionary Principle Applied to Cellphone Use for a description of appropriate actions.

Compounding this concern is a recently published Swedish study reporting a 420% increased risk of brain tumors from cellphone use, and a 340% increase risk from cordless phone use when wireless phone use began as teenagers or younger. [30

Thanks for the link I will check it out on monday...sunday is my non science day :p. I see what I find ;)

Guest 13.12.2009 15:20

Re: Cell phone radiation [are mobiles hazardous to your health?]
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by NotAllThere (Post 642026)
Anyway, the latest research has found that mobile phones have no significant health effect. .....

A 2006 study of several hundred thousand Danes, showed no increase in cancer among mobile phone users over a 20 year period.

Thanks. Do you happen to have any links on information on these research and studies.

Also, of the studies that find no link, does it seem a disproportionate number of them come from Scandinavian countries? The land of Ericcson and Nokia?

Guest 13.12.2009 15:23

Re: Cell phone radiation
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Treverus (Post 641963)
- A microwave oven has some hundred watts while a phone has less than a Milliwatt. It would take more than 1,5 Million mobile phones to deliver the same radiation my microwave oven does. This is very little radiation.

While it may not be enough to turn our head into a roast, doesn't it take only a small quantity of cells for cancer to develop?

Treverus 13.12.2009 15:54

Re: Cell phone radiation
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Phos (Post 642154)
While it may not be enough to turn our head into a roast, doesn't it take only a small quantity of cells for cancer to develop?

Yes, but I think it is so little that it really might not have an impact at all. Just to compare:
Above was mentioned, that some studies suggest that x-raying babies does have a negative impact. I had a look at average medical x-ray machines: The ones from today are far stronger than my microwave oven, so they translate into an exposure of radiation of several Million mobile phones at once. That does not sound healthy. And I am pretty sure that the 1960s x-ray machines that were in use when the researched people were in fact babies were not more healthy than the ones from today.
So this would mean to me: If x-rays are obviously so much stronger, I would expect everyone who has been x-rayed before to get cancer long before the first hardcore mobile users are affected. But that is just me.


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