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  #101  
Old 19.12.2009, 18:56
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Re: Toddlers and Junk Food

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I promised all of you to do my best to not screw up my daughter.
You have to put a few neuroses into them, or they simply won't fit into this maladjusted world.
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  #102  
Old 21.12.2009, 16:28
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Re: Toddlers and Junk Food

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I find it funny to be groan for giving my opinion. I was not being rude or unpolite. I am not calling peoples name.

And those one who groan at me, you didn't come to explain you point of view! Alan_Zurich? Lynniec?

And Carlos R, you are new on this forum and already over using the groan button...

So guys, If you don't agree with my opinion, it is your right. But in that case, explain yourself properly without calling names.

Why should it be other way?

I thought I had explained myself - will try to be less zealous with the groanning
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  #103  
Old 21.12.2009, 17:51
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Re: Toddlers and Junk Food

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You have to put a few neuroses into them, or they simply won't fit into this maladjusted world.
Yes, near-perfect people are looked down upon as robots or, worse still, androids.

Happy holidays, everyone!
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  #104  
Old 21.12.2009, 17:58
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Re: Toddlers and Junk Food

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I think you'll learn that as far as influencing your daughter goes, you'll always come a distant second to her peers.
Good point but when it comes to screwing one up nothing like your own parents
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  #105  
Old 21.12.2009, 18:22
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Re: Toddlers and Junk Food

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That's good.



Not a problem in Switzerland



I don't think people are disputing that -what I said is that these ingredients are cheap and, in processed food, are added at the expense of more nutritious ingredients.


Which, for babies and toddlers (the subject of this thread), are all pretty irrelevant (apart from social status).



I think people are talking about heavily processed foods - which don't really taste like real food anyway.

Are you suggesting that if my wife and I do not bring our children up eating lots of processed food, they are going to get hang-ups about food?

The people I know with hang-ups about food and are unhealthy because of it, seem to rely almost solely on processed and junk food.

Something seems to have gone seriously wrong with food in the western world with over-consumption and unhealthy eating.

My parents generation didn't suffer from it.
Nor did their parents and their parents in turn - none of whom needed the help of a nutritionalist.
To them it was all common sense and knowledge, handed down.

Some of us are carrying this on. What is so wrong with that?
Sorry, but I don't know how to do your fancy interlaced quoting, so here goes:

On the subject of oil: No, but it makes a useful point that oil/fat is not "bad" per se, which is one of the main negatives that people associate with "junk food".

On the subject of salt, sugar and oil: My point is that all ingredients have nutritional value. Salt and fat are as important as other items in your diet, they don't have "less" nutritional value, so I don't agree with your substitution comment.

Demographics: Why are age, exercise, sex irrelevant? They are all very relevant to nutrition in toddlers. If someone was at Gymboree, you are talking about a toddler, i.e. not a baby (I agree on the baby front as these are usually being fed with milk): they have a sex, so will develop differently and have different needs depending on their sex; they will exercise differently in part due to developmental differences; and, age of course is very important in terms of growth and development and nutritional requirements - I don't understand why you dismiss them and strongly disagree with you...


"I think people are talking about heavily processed foods - which don't really taste like real food anyway."

That's an opinion that you are entitled to (the latter bit anyway).

"Are you suggesting that if my wife and I do not bring our children up eating lots of processed food, they are going to get hang-ups about food?"

No, and I think you are being confrontational on that point because that is not at all what I said.

What I do think is that if you marginalise certain foods, you will, as a "population" (there are exceptions to every rule) risk causing fixations on those foods.

What I also think is that giving children a range of foods, including processed, as part of a varied diet will do no harm, unlike the anti-fast food brigade who believe that you will de facto create obese children.

I certainly couldn't agree with you more that something is wrong with the Western lifestyle, but I think to lay the blame at diet's door is simply wrong. As I said previously, our diet is part of a far larger pattern of life and it too easy and unhelpful to blame diet and ill-health solely on the food we eat rather than looking at the broader picture.

Our parents and grandparents didn't have these issues because: 1) they didn't have the choice we do; 2) they generally worked harder and moved more (i.e. more physicality, less tv etc.); 3) if you are from W. Europe they went through two world wars in quick succession or a civil war; 4) if from the UK went through rationing.

You can ignore most of 3 & all of 4 if you are not from W. Europe.

To conclude, there's nothing wrong with feeding your children healthy home-prepared food (good for you, we do it for our three), but be careful about what you define as healthy and don't castigate others for giving their children what you may think is inappropriate (which is ultimately, what the OP was about) out of context.
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  #106  
Old 21.12.2009, 23:26
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Re: Toddlers and Junk Food

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I find it funny to be groan for giving my opinion. I was not being rude or unpolite. I am not calling peoples name.

And those one who groan at me, you didn't come to explain you point of view! Alan_Zurich? Lynniec?

And Carlos R, you are new on this forum and already over using the groan button...

So guys, If you don't agree with my opinion, it is your right. But in that case, explain yourself properly without calling names.

Why should it be other way?

Firstly I am sorry Nil that you feel that using the groan button is not acceptable without giving your opinion. I kinda got the impression that it spoke for itself i.e. You're entitled to your opinion but I don't agree with what you are saying, without having to justify myself.

I certainly can see where you are coming from about another adult offering your child food without asking you first, but if you let your child walk over to another table or place where people are eating I guess the woman was just being polite\kind. I also think (in my opion) that as long as chips and junk food are given in moderation (my children only have junk food on a rare occassion and it is seen as a very special treat) what is the harm? Also, my understanding of a balanced diet is some salt is okay and there are good and bad fats. My children enjoy a fully nutritional and balanced diet which allows them to have 'bad' food occassionally and it certainly is not doing them any harm.

But at the end of the day we all bring our children up in the way believe is correct for them. I don't believe there is a right or wrong way. It might be wrong in one persons eyes and okay in anothers. So at the end of the day, live and let live in my opinion.
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  #107  
Old 21.12.2009, 23:54
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Re: Toddlers and Junk Food

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What I also think is that giving children a range of foods, including processed, as part of a varied diet will do no harm, unlike the anti-fast food brigade who believe that you will de facto create obese children.

I certainly couldn't agree with you more that something is wrong with the Western lifestyle, but I think to lay the blame at diet's door is simply wrong. As I said previously, our diet is part of a far larger pattern of life and it too easy and unhelpful to blame diet and ill-health solely on the food we eat rather than looking at the broader picture.

Our parents and grandparents didn't have these issues because: 1) they didn't have the choice we do;
I don't understand - what has choice got to do with it?

You've stated that it's too easy to blame diet and then you mention choice.


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2) they generally worked harder and moved more (i.e. more physicality, less tv etc.); 3) if you are from W. Europe they went through two world wars in quick succession or a civil war; 4) if from the UK went through rationing.

You can ignore most of 3 & all of 4 if you are not from W. Europe.
So you would expect another group to be, for example, more obese than those in W.Europe and another group to be much thinner.

We could use the high levels of obesity in the U.S. as an example but not blame it on the diet (and yet the evidence shows otherwise).

I'm sure you know how many miles you need to run to burn off a happy meal - 10 miles. And that's not exactly a run around the block and I've seen people eat six of these in one sitting.

Eating your fill of apples, for example, would not have the same affect.

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To conclude, there's nothing wrong with feeding your children healthy home-prepared food (good for you, we do it for our three), but be careful about what you define as healthy and don't castigate others for giving their children what you may think is inappropriate (which is ultimately, what the OP was about) out of context.
My kids eat processed food - it would be difficult to avoid it - and we don't have a cow to milk or time to make cheese .

However show me some proof that heavily processed food including ready meals and kiddy marketed cereals, and McDonalds fries are NOT bad for your children?

They may be okay in moderation but that doesn't make them healthy.

And, my children, well the oldest, anyway does go to McDonalds - he must do as those 'freebie' toys keep appearing. I don't take him though, it's the sister-in-law .
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  #108  
Old 21.12.2009, 23:57
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Re: Toddlers and Junk Food

I'm not sure I want to jump in here, but here it goes. (Oh yikes!)

I think this is an important topic and I see the responses falling into two camps -- abstinence only and moderation as the key. Of course, there might be varying levels of what one considers moderation. But, in general, it seems like both sides could agree that the other opinion is not really off the wall? The only really off the wall opinion would be McD as the mainstay of a toddler's diet. I haven't seen that post yet.

I have a toddler and what would hurt me is that someone would be ranting about me on this forum. He had a few fries one time last month? But he loves broccoli and olives and sushi (no fish) and sweet potatoes and carrots (like no tomorrow!) and chicken and peas and green beans and clementines and yogurt and milk . . . and the list goes on. Yes, he really did enjoy those fries too. But, it's up to me (the big person ) how often he's around them and how often he gets the good stuff.


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.

To conclude, there's nothing wrong with feeding your children healthy home-prepared food (good for you, we do it for our three), but be careful about what you define as healthy and don't castigate others for giving their children what you may think is inappropriate (which is ultimately, what the OP was about) out of context.
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  #109  
Old 22.12.2009, 00:10
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Re: Toddlers and Junk Food

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I'm not sure I want to jump in here, but here it goes. (Oh yikes!)

I think this is an important topic and I see the responses falling into two camps -- abstinence only and moderation as the key. Of course, there might be varying levels of what one considers moderation. But, in general, it seems like both sides could agree that the other opinion is not really off the wall? The only really off the wall opinion would be McD as the mainstay of a toddler's diet. I haven't seen that post yet.

I have a toddler and what would hurt me is that someone would be ranting about me on this forum. He had a few fries one time last month? But he loves broccoli and olives and sushi (no fish) and sweet potatoes and carrots (like no tomorrow!) and chicken and peas and green beans and clementines and yogurt and milk . . . and the list goes on. Yes, he really did enjoy those fries too. But, it's up to me (the big person ) how often he's around them and how often he gets the good stuff.
My eldest loves olives too!

I think one problem I have with some of the posters is that they think that those who decide to keep their children away from junk and processed food are somehow going to screw them up into having these things later on in life at the expense of anything else.

I think, personally, that this is a load of cobblers.

I would maintain that those children fed a childhood of junk food are more likely to embrace this eating style in their adult life.

I'd like to see some studies suggesting this, or indeed the opposite is true.
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  #110  
Old 22.12.2009, 00:29
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Re: Toddlers and Junk Food

For what it is worth, I would suggest that the most unhealty part of a McDonald's burger and fries is the bun.

Refined flour is no different then refined suger, which makes bread about as nasty as pop (chemicals aside).

The fries are a problem if they are fried in hydrogenated oil (banned in restuarants where I used to live). I am not sure what McDonalds uses here. Personally I would prefer they be fried in lard over partially hydrogenated vegtable oil. In my opinion potatoes fried in lard are "healthier" than white bread and margerine.

So if you offer my kid a piece of Baguette, I would see it to be not so much different then candy or pop.
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  #111  
Old 22.12.2009, 01:09
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Re: Toddlers and Junk Food

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Firstly I am sorry Nil that you feel that using the groan button is not acceptable without giving your opinion. I kinda got the impression that it spoke for itself i.e. You're entitled to your opinion but I don't agree with what you are saying, without having to justify myself.

I certainly can see where you are coming from about another adult offering your child food without asking you first, but if you let your child walk over to another table or place where people are eating I guess the woman was just being polite\kind. I also think (in my opion) that as long as chips and junk food are given in moderation (my children only have junk food on a rare occassion and it is seen as a very special treat) what is the harm? Also, my understanding of a balanced diet is some salt is okay and there are good and bad fats. My children enjoy a fully nutritional and balanced diet which allows them to have 'bad' food occassionally and it certainly is not doing them any harm.

But at the end of the day we all bring our children up in the way believe is correct for them. I don't believe there is a right or wrong way. It might be wrong in one persons eyes and okay in anothers. So at the end of the day, live and let live in my opinion.
Thank you, in this thread, I was seeking for opinions and I am happy you took the time to give your opinion.

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My eldest loves olives too!

I think one problem I have with some of the posters is that they think that those who decide to keep their children away from junk and processed food are somehow going to screw them up into having these things later on in life at the expense of anything else.

I think, personally, that this is a load of cobblers.

I would maintain that those children fed a childhood of junk food are more likely to embrace this eating style in their adult life.

I'd like to see some studies suggesting this, or indeed the opposite is true.
Some of those who wrote on this thread stop because they didn't want to be victime on the ''bashing''.

Last edited by vwild1; 07.02.2010 at 10:15. Reason: No need for multiple posts in succession when one single post will suffice.
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  #112  
Old 22.12.2009, 02:19
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Re: Toddlers and Junk Food

At the end of the day, there's really no excuse for not feeding your kids proper home-cooked meals and giving them healthy snacks. A friend said that she regularly gives her eldest a bowl of porrage for dinner. Her neighbour's kid thought this was so unusual that he went home and told his parents. Her excuse was that she's got 2 kids, works full time and doesn't have the time to prepare meals every night. If I had the groan button available during that conversation I certainly would have used it.

If you need to eat out, then make sure the meal has at least some vegetables and not just with fries. So many kiddie meals in restaurants are fried, crumbed things served with fries Some kids I hear asking for a plate of fries, nothing else, so their parents order it. A big mistake was ordering kids meals when flying. The contents were a 500 ml Ribena or Sunny D, pizza with fake cheese, a pack of sugary biscuits plus a desert. I don't know how a kid can sit still on a plane after that lot! I promptly gave the sugary things back and ate the pizza myself, while my son enjoyed my meal.

I think that you as a parent you do ingrain your eating habits into your kids. I enjoy eating bread with my meat, as a sandwich, but have stopped since my son started asking for some and then all he would eat was bread. I also push things I don't like to the side, and my son copies and won't eat certain bits that he doesn't like the look of.

Forbidding foods didn't work with my sister. As soon as she started school and had her own money she would just buy the things she wanted herself. My son was the only kid that didn't know what marshmallows were at age 3 at a birthday party. After he tried some he had been asking for them all the time I wish he hadn't tried them.
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  #113  
Old 22.12.2009, 08:44
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Re: Toddlers and Junk Food

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At the end of the day, there's really no excuse for not feeding your kids proper home-cooked meals and giving them healthy snacks. A friend said that she regularly gives her eldest a bowl of porrage for dinner. Her neighbour's kid thought this was so unusual that he went home and told his parents. Her excuse was that she's got 2 kids, works full time and doesn't have the time to prepare meals every night. If I had the groan button available during that conversation I certainly would have used it.
Us poor working mums are always on the end of someone's judgemental punishment stick whatever we do, eh?

If porridge is the worst thing that this woman feeds her kids I don't think she (or any of her "concerned" neighbours) have anything to worry about, now do they?

My mother in law, who stayed at home with her kids and didn't work, often used to feed them porridge or, as a treat, Birchermuesli as an evening meal. Her reasoning behind it was that she had cooked them a full midday meal including meat, veg and either potatoes and pasta and her kids simply weren't hungry enough in the evening to polish off another full meal.

Maybe this is the same with this lady's kids? They get a full meal in the middle of the day at school or nursery so a second full meal at the end of the day would just be over the top.

Porridge is fairly nutritious, filling and a slow burner which will sustain them through the night.
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  #114  
Old 22.12.2009, 09:08
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Re: Toddlers and Junk Food

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Some of those who wrote on this thread stop because they didn't want to be victime on the ''bashing''.
I hope I didn't come across as bashing. I think Carlos R's point in general was a good one -- to beware of labeling food good and bad. There may be unintentional repercussions of doing so. Similar to highlighting responsible drinking vs abstinence only in a family maybe?

Maybe the real problem of eating habits comes down to this article on self-control.

http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2...fa_fact_lehrer

So, we should all be tempting our children with marshmallows and then denying them . . .
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  #115  
Old 22.12.2009, 10:14
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Re: Toddlers and Junk Food

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If you need to eat out, then make sure the meal has at least some vegetables and not just with fries. So many kiddie meals in restaurants are fried, crumbed things served with fries Some kids I hear asking for a plate of fries, nothing else, so their parents order it. A big mistake was ordering kids meals when flying. The contents were a 500 ml Ribena or Sunny D, pizza with fake cheese, a pack of sugary biscuits plus a desert. I don't know how a kid can sit still on a plane after that lot! I promptly gave the sugary things back and ate the pizza myself, while my son enjoyed my meal.
It annoys me in restaurants when the adult's menu is okay and the children's menu is:

1. Chicken nuggets and chips
2. Fish fingers and chips
3. Burger and chips

And that's it.

At least in Switzerland it's fairly easy to order a child's portion of an adult dish.
When this isn't possible, we've either asked for a second plate (and explained why) or ordered an additional adult meal.

I agree with your sentiments regarding plane food for children.

But, if children only eat chicken nuggets and chips and only drink Ribena (and we must be talking about a really high percentage for so many childrens menus to be like this) - there must be a high percentage of parents who only feed there children this rubbish.

I've seen children in the U.K. (not mine), cook absolutely amazing healthy full meals with no recipe book - just working it out as they go along.
"Wow, you must cook alot to be able to do this", I have remarked.

"No, my mum won't let me cook at home, she just heats up ready-meals in the microwave."
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  #116  
Old 22.12.2009, 10:39
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Re: Toddlers and Junk Food

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Firstly I am sorry Nil that you feel that using the groan button is not acceptable without giving your opinion. I kinda got the impression that it spoke for itself i.e. You're entitled to your opinion but I don't agree with what you are saying, without having to justify myself.

I certainly can see where you are coming from about another adult offering your child food without asking you first, but if you let your child walk over to another table or place where people are eating I guess the woman was just being polite\kind. I also think (in my opion) that as long as chips and junk food are given in moderation (my children only have junk food on a rare occassion and it is seen as a very special treat) what is the harm? Also, my understanding of a balanced diet is some salt is okay and there are good and bad fats. My children enjoy a fully nutritional and balanced diet which allows them to have 'bad' food occassionally and it certainly is not doing them any harm.

But at the end of the day we all bring our children up in the way believe is correct for them. I don't believe there is a right or wrong way. It might be wrong in one persons eyes and okay in anothers. So at the end of the day, live and let live in my opinion.
Youhave a good point, still whenever I am around kids taht are not mine (and I dont have kids) I ask the mother or father if I can give them thisor that. Simply because you never know about allergies, and I guess it is just common courtesy

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However show me some proof that heavily processed food including ready meals and kiddy marketed cereals, and McDonalds fries are NOT bad for your children?

They may be okay in moderation but that doesn't make them healthy.
I think many people might have seen "supersize me" the movie? OK that was taking things on the extreme. I do not think anyon e will argue that fried stuff and stuff packed in calories (not mutually exclusive of course) is not the best for your health but my dietitian for example has told me that as long as I keep my balanced diet most of the time, I can also eat something not so healthy every now on then. As you said it is all about moderation, if you try to avoid these food at all, cravings are going to kill you.

Last edited by vwild1; 07.02.2010 at 10:16. Reason: No need for multiple posts in succession when one single post will suffice.
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Old 22.12.2009, 10:43
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Re: Toddlers and Junk Food

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...Porridge is fairly nutritious, filling and a slow burner which will sustain them through the night.
I agree with this. Porridge is a nutritious meal, especially if you do not overload it with sugar (you can sweeten it with maple syrup instead) and accompany it with fruit.

What matters with children is that they have a balanced diet over a period of time (a week or so). Children go through fads. There are days when my son would eat nothing but plain pasta (annointed with olive oil and strewn with chunks of parmigiano reggiano). I let him do that as long as he eats plenty of fruits and vegetables in the next few days. Which he actually does.

I would argue against demonising any food. We as parents should encourage our children to taste different foods and ultimately enjoy their meals rather than agonise over an odd chip or an E-number.

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I find it funny to be groan for giving my opinion. I was not being rude or unpolite. I am not calling peoples name.

And those one who groan at me, you didn't come to explain you point of view! Alan_Zurich? Lynniec?

And Carlos R, you are new on this forum and already over using the groan button...

So guys, If you don't agree with my opinion, it is your right. But in that case, explain yourself properly without calling names.

Why should it be other way?
I would have groaned you also, but it is not my usual style.

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Old 22.12.2009, 11:04
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Re: Toddlers and Junk Food

Nil when your child gets a bit older and can see other kids eating junk food she will be interested. I think a fear of mine if i had kids would be making certain foods out of bounds because it would make them all the more interested which could lead to the child trying to obtain this food secretly when they are older.

As a child I was restricted from many 'fattening' foods and because of this it made me more interested - it became a secret habit to eat them without my parents knowing - this resulted in weight issues and because of my experience I am very aware that if i have kids I need to find a balance to avoid the same happening

However at 15 months i agree a child probably does not need to know about and eat McDonalds etc... but as they get older and more inquisitive you'll need to figure out how you introduce these foods and teach them about them.

I think if a child eats a balanced diet of fruit and veg and has the occasional junk food then fine, if they ONLY want to eat junk food then there's a problem
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Old 22.12.2009, 11:06
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Re: Toddlers and Junk Food

Also important is to teach by example. My parents always told me chocolates were bad bad for me... Still they had a stash of chocolates in their bedroom. Credibility = ZERO.
Kids will see what you are doing but not hear what you are saying
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Old 22.12.2009, 11:27
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Re: Toddlers and Junk Food

As important as not demonising food, is not dealing with any food type as a "treat". I'm a great believer in parents being casual about food while doing their best to steer children in the right direction.
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