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  #61  
Old 03.08.2012, 09:45
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Re: Pain relief during childbirth?

I think like many women, your opinions on childbirth change once you've actually been through it. =)

I had what I think is a fairly common wish to have a childbirth without pain relief. My plan was due to two things.

1. All the data linking epidurals and other meds to an increased risk of interventions.
2. The social side of things. Women seem to wear this badge of honor for going through childbirth without pain relief. I felt guilty to try anything else.

Yes, childbirth isn't a sickness. But why are women so adamant to refuse pain relief for childbirth but perfectly okay taking meds for everything else under the sun? Is the risk to the baby *that* great to warrant it? I think just loving your unborn child and going through pregnancy is enough of a badge of honor. And as you'll see in my case, I'd likely have required interventions had I not received pain relief.

Anyways...

I had a birth plan with "no this, that and the other." Pretty much "no" to most everything. I'd initially wanted a home birth too. Yet nothing had prepared me for the pain of a posterior baby. I was in labor for a week and only made it to 2-3 cm despite my contractions on paper being through the roof. They'd come fast and strong for half a day and then suddenly ease off, as the baby wasn't putting the right, consistent pressure he should have been had he been anterior.

The hospital respected my birth plan and instead, offered me a warm bath. It didn't do a thing to help. Around that time, back labor kicked in and I couldn't walk at that point from the contractions and spasms down my back and legs. Oh, and then nausea/sick too. Had I refused the anti-nausea IV meds at that point, I'm sure vomiting for the next 12 hours or so until I delivered would have been more dangerous to me and the baby. As for the epidural, my husband ordered it for me. He said something about me looking possessed and to get me one asap.

Now to reference some debate in this thread about screaming and going the natural route. Don't assume that an epidural = no pain for every woman who receives it. The woman screaming in the room beside you may still have received pain relief. It may not have worked at all or it may not have relieved all her pain. I had a woman like this near me and it scared the crap out of me to listen to that during my labor. I felt awful for her suffering. But hearing her wee one screaming afterwards made me smile. It was such a relief to hear her baby was okay and to hear she finally had her reward!

After I received an epidural, I could still move my legs quite well and roll over. They had to use oxytocin as can happen when the epidural slows down the contractions. But I could still feel my little one kicking and when the time for delivery came, I felt the contractions and pushed him out with only a few pushes. He came out with a nuchal hand and I avoided tearing issues too. Zero interventions. As for noise, well think about tennis players and their grunting. ;p If you're pushing the hardest you've ever pushed, there's a reasonable chance that you'll make some noise whether there is pain or not. And there was still agonizing pain when he came out. I felt the stretching, burning..etc.

I do understand the poster who wonders why women refuse pain relief. Like I said in my two points above, I think those are two key reasons. In retrospect, I think my outcome would have been one with major interventions if I hadn't taken pain relief. I was told I had a contraction pattern consistent with transition when I was only dilating 2-3 cms plus had the nausea/sick. Had I spent the next 12 hours or so until I delivered vomiting and continuing like that, I'd have been without food for a long time plus totally exhausted from the pain and not ready for the pushing phase like I was.

By the way, I think the term "natural childbirth" should be wiped out. It's just another way to make women feel like there's something wrong (i.e. unnatural) about giving birth any other way than vaginally without pain relief. It puts unnecessary pressure on women and harms a beautiful process of bringing life into this world (i.e. having a baby...vaginally or c-section, pain relief or not.). Sandgrounder is right. Her birth is a natural one. You can't correct her and then go on to say definitions don't matter. They do matter by their very existence and application to childbirth.
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Old 03.08.2012, 10:50
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Re: Pain relief during childbirth?

Little Isabella,

I'm sorry to hear that you had a difficult child birth and I'm sure that in
your case the best option would be giving birth assisted by medication
and/or cesarian.

However, many women have no such problems and deliver quite quickly.
My mother had three children with no medication, my husband's mother
also had three children with no medication, two of them were delivered
at home, these are just some examples.

There is pain but no woman has ever died from it, it is pain that is meant to be there. Every woman has a choice today and so it depends on the individual.

I'm am now in my 5th month and we have decided that a Geburtshaus / birth centre and a medical free birth is the best option. I do not feel comfortable
in hospitals and I do not feel comfortable under the influence of drugs. Instead, I'm preparing for it through yoga classes, massage and thinking positive

I know there will be pain. Will it be more intense than the time I got hit by a car while driving my motorcycle? Now, that hurt!
I'm sure it will just be a different kind. Something like cramps to the max I will try to handle it as best as I can and hope it
will pass sooner than later and the baby will be there and we'll finally know if it a son or a daughter. It'll be worth it.

Just like woman who can not comprehend the refusal of medic pain relief, I can not understand how woman prefer to have their
stomachs cut open, followed by scars&pain of healing, and drugs in order to avoid pain. But these are choices and we are
entitled to them and it has absolutely nothing to do with being "less or more of woman" either way. That's crap
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Old 03.08.2012, 10:59
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Re: Pain relief during childbirth?

[QUOTE=ljm;138905]
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But it is not because there is something intrinsically wrong with women's bodies that hospital Caesarean rates are so high -- it is because many women don't believe that they can pull it off and medical professionals (midwives included) prefer to perform medical procedures to deliver babies rather than support mothers to deliver their babies themselves.
This is true. They prefer and want to perform medical procedures for several reasons,
1) it is faster which creates more free space in a shorter time,
2) it is easier for all those medics included, get the job done
3) there is a higher profit.

The above information comes from a doctor who performs c-sections on pregnant women.
A family member. So, when I asked him why do the women choose to do it? His answer was,
"simply because it is less painful, less of a hassle" ... I was dumb struck
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Old 03.08.2012, 11:05
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Re: Pain relief during childbirth?

[QUOTE=liajoe;1624979]
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This is true. They prefer and want to perform medical procedures for several reasons,
1) it is faster which creates more free space in a shorter time,
2) it is easier for all those medics included, get the job done
3) there is a higher profit.

The above information comes from a doctor who performs c-sections on pregnant women.
A family member. So, when I asked him why do the women choose to do it? His answer was,
"simply because it is less painful, less of a hassle" ... I was dumb struck
It is NOT the case for every women. I had a natural birth for my first child and almost lost her, thanks for the lack of experience and lack of pro activity in decision making from the doctor who was there at that time.

Because of the trauma (physically and psychologically) I decided to go straight forward with a c-section for my second. It was the best experience between the both and the recovery was much faster in my case. There are many reasons why a woman choose a c-section and not all of them because of what your family member said.

I am very happy we have the chance to decide what we want and what is best for us.
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Old 03.08.2012, 11:16
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Re: Pain relief during childbirth?

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Obviously the woman next door did; she was having her 4th child and as it was explained to me by the staff- she had refused any aid (perfectly her right). Yet her "vocality" (please, I'm trying not to offend) not only bothered the staff, but also me. Did I feel any empathy for her, I should think not.

I do not have a "revulsion of unmedicated birth", I have a revulsion against pain. There is an enormous difference.
Pain is part of life. And no one has died from "pain".
If you do not empathize for the next door mother, I find that sad. Sorry for you.
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Old 03.08.2012, 11:26
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Re: Pain relief during childbirth?

[QUOTE=Nil;1624989]
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It is NOT the case for every women.
I did not say that is the case for every woman. I said this is what medical doctors prefer. There is a difference.

I am sorry you had troubles with your doctor. I for one do not trust them completely and this is why we chose
the birthing centre with experienced midwife and my gynecologist on stand by in case things do go according to plan.


Also, the entire process has a lot to do with the woman's state of mind and most importantly - the experience of the
person who is supporting you. And of course your partner, to whom you can hold hands and shout at if you need to
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Old 03.08.2012, 11:33
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Re: Pain relief during childbirth?

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I think like many women, your opinions on childbirth change once you've actually been through it. =)

I had what I think is a fairly common wish to have a childbirth without pain relief. My plan was due to two things.

1. All the data linking epidurals and other meds to an increased risk of interventions.
2. The social side of things. Women seem to wear this badge of honor for going through childbirth without pain relief. I felt guilty to try anything else.

Yes, childbirth isn't a sickness. But why are women so adamant to refuse pain relief for childbirth but perfectly okay taking meds for everything else under the sun? Is the risk to the baby *that* great to warrant it? I think just loving your unborn child and going through pregnancy is enough of a badge of honor. And as you'll see in my case, I'd likely have required interventions had I not received pain relief.

Anyways...

I had a birth plan with "no this, that and the other." Pretty much "no" to most everything. I'd initially wanted a home birth too. Yet nothing had prepared me for the pain of a posterior baby. I was in labor for a week and only made it to 2-3 cm despite my contractions on paper being through the roof. They'd come fast and strong for half a day and then suddenly ease off, as the baby wasn't putting the right, consistent pressure he should have been had he been anterior.

The hospital respected my birth plan and instead, offered me a warm bath. It didn't do a thing to help. Around that time, back labor kicked in and I couldn't walk at that point from the contractions and spasms down my back and legs. Oh, and then nausea/sick too. Had I refused the anti-nausea IV meds at that point, I'm sure vomiting for the next 12 hours or so until I delivered would have been more dangerous to me and the baby. As for the epidural, my husband ordered it for me. He said something about me looking possessed and to get me one asap.

Now to reference some debate in this thread about screaming and going the natural route. Don't assume that an epidural = no pain for every woman who receives it. The woman screaming in the room beside you may still have received pain relief. It may not have worked at all or it may not have relieved all her pain. I had a woman like this near me and it scared the crap out of me to listen to that during my labor. I felt awful for her suffering. But hearing her wee one screaming afterwards made me smile. It was such a relief to hear her baby was okay and to hear she finally had her reward!

After I received an epidural, I could still move my legs quite well and roll over. They had to use oxytocin as can happen when the epidural slows down the contractions. But I could still feel my little one kicking and when the time for delivery came, I felt the contractions and pushed him out with only a few pushes. He came out with a nuchal hand and I avoided tearing issues too. Zero interventions. As for noise, well think about tennis players and their grunting. ;p If you're pushing the hardest you've ever pushed, there's a reasonable chance that you'll make some noise whether there is pain or not. And there was still agonizing pain when he came out. I felt the stretching, burning..etc.

I do understand the poster who wonders why women refuse pain relief. Like I said in my two points above, I think those are two key reasons. In retrospect, I think my outcome would have been one with major interventions if I hadn't taken pain relief. I was told I had a contraction pattern consistent with transition when I was only dilating 2-3 cms plus had the nausea/sick. Had I spent the next 12 hours or so until I delivered vomiting and continuing like that, I'd have been without food for a long time plus totally exhausted from the pain and not ready for the pushing phase like I was.

By the way, I think the term "natural childbirth" should be wiped out. It's just another way to make women feel like there's something wrong (i.e. unnatural) about giving birth any other way than vaginally without pain relief. It puts unnecessary pressure on women and harms a beautiful process of bringing life into this world (i.e. having a baby...vaginally or c-section, pain relief or not.). Sandgrounder is right. Her birth is a natural one. You can't correct her and then go on to say definitions don't matter. They do matter by their very existence and application to childbirth.
Gulp......

27 weeks pregnant and some what trying not to think about labour. Meeting th midwife next week to discuss antenatal care, labour process and pain relief. Currently very unprepared.

Isabella....your labour sounded so traumatic
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Old 03.08.2012, 11:52
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Re: Pain relief during childbirth?

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Gulp......

27 weeks pregnant and some what trying not to think about labour. Meeting th midwife next week to discuss antenatal care, labour process and pain relief. Currently very unprepared.

Isabella....your labour sounded so traumatic
Oh, think positive darkhorsesea

It is not the same for every woman. Every woman is different, every birth is different.

Yes, some have had traumatic experiences but there's a reason. Such as their body not
coping or mentally not being prepared or labour is just not right (but this would be noticeable way in advance).

I think if we know our selves and our body well, if we are healthy and try to prepare and exercise
both body and mind for the upcoming birth, then pain becomes part of the process, we deal with it and we focus on the baby coming!!

If you feel comfortable with your midwife, she'll prepare you and there's much you can do well in advance!
i.e Yoga, twice a day on daily basis, swimming, birthing massage every now and then or acupuncture. There are many ways to prepare
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Old 03.08.2012, 11:55
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Re: Pain relief during childbirth?

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Gulp......

27 weeks pregnant and some what trying not to think about labour. Meeting th midwife next week to discuss antenatal care, labour process and pain relief. Currently very unprepared.

Isabella....your labour sounded so traumatic
Aw bless. Chin up, buttercup! My recovery, however, was fantastic. Whilst the contractions aspect was traumatic, the delivery was fast despite the pain. Not having tearing issues also made the recovery good. I was out of the hospital around 6/8 hours after I delivered and home I went. =)

For the record too, I didn't do any specific birth preparation. When I first went into the hospital, the midwives showed me how to breathe to help cope with the pain. It helped a bit until the sickness and back labor kicked in.

Quote:
Just like woman who can not comprehend the refusal of medic pain relief, I can not understand how woman prefer to have their
stomachs cut open, followed by scars&pain of healing, and drugs in order to avoid pain.
For many women, the healing from a c-section is very comfortable whilst healing from the heaps of stitches/tearing due to vaginal childbirth is far worse. Talk to a woman who's had a 3rd of 4th degree tear and still can't enjoy sex a year+ later.

Your assumption that one choice causes more problems than the other isn't accurate. And this links in with the whole "natural childbirth" badge I talked about.

The point is that you never know. So start with your birth plan but don't let the ridiculous sentiment out there glorifying "natural childbirth" stop you from doing what's right for you, which may not coincide with that. (disclaimer: I'm not calling medication free birth ridiculous but rather, the glorification of it and the stigma associated with anyone who chooses otherwise).

Quote:
This is true. They prefer and want to perform medical procedures for several reasons,
1) it is faster which creates more free space in a shorter time,
2) it is easier for all those medics included, get the job done
3) there is a higher profit.

The above information comes from a doctor who performs c-sections on pregnant women.
A family member. So, when I asked him why do the women choose to do it? His answer was,
"simply because it is less painful, less of a hassle" ... I was dumb struck
So you're applying the thoughts of one physician to the entire medical profession? Yes, I do think *some* physicians/hospitals can be overzealous with interventions. No argument there. But many medical procedures in questions are *critical* to save mother and baby. No other reason.

And in my case, no interventions were done beyond the epidural and oxytocin. In fact, the epidural had to be specifically requested and was not offered since my birth plan had stated "no" to it.

P.S. To say that nobody dies from pain isn't entirely true. I won't go into chronic pain and mortality. But in terms of childbirth, the intensity, type and duration of pain can prevent a mother from safely delivering her baby. This kind of statement again implies that a woman shouldn't accept pain relief.

Quick edit/addition: The ob/gyns and midwives at the hospital were nothing short of amazing. They literally stood back and told me to get comfortable once I was dilated to ten cm. Very positive, encouraging and gentle with me. I can't say enough good things about Triemli. So wonderful, in fact, that I swore to my husband we're having all of our children there..hehe.
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Old 03.08.2012, 11:55
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Re: Pain relief during childbirth?

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Oh, think positive darkhorsesea

It is not the same for every woman. Every woman is different, every birth is different.

Yes, some have had traumatic experiences but there's a reason. Such as their body not
coping or mentally not being prepared or labour is just not right (but this would be noticeable way in advance).

I think if we know our selves and our body well, if we are healthy and try to prepare and exercise
both body and mind for the upcoming birth, then pain becomes part of the process, we deal with it and we focus on the baby coming!!


If you feel comfortable with your midwife, she'll prepare you and there's much you can do well in advance!
i.e Yoga, twice a day on daily basis, swimming, birthing massage every now and then or acupuncture. There are many ways to prepare
Again, even with all the perfect preparation, it is not a garanty of having a good birth experience.
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Old 03.08.2012, 11:57
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Re: Pain relief during childbirth?

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Also, the entire process has a lot to do with the woman's state of mind and most importantly - the experience of the
person who is supporting you. And of course your partner, to whom you can hold hands and shout at if you need to
This is your first birth, isn't it?

I wanted natural childbirth.
In the end, I was grateful for my epidural (which didn't work well), my general anesthesia and the C-section. It saved my life and my child's as well.

A state of mind can overcome only so much. Listen to your body, midwives and doctors. Giving birth isn't about overcoming physical hardship, it's about delivering a healthy baby and staying healthy yourself.

Last edited by olygirl; 03.08.2012 at 12:10.
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Old 03.08.2012, 11:58
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Re: Pain relief during childbirth?

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This is your first birth, isn't it?

I wanted natural childbirth.
In the end, I was grateful for my epidural (which didn't work well), my general anesthesia and the C-section. It saved my life and my child's as well.

A state of mind can overcome only so much. Listen to your body, midwives and doctors. Giving birth isn't about overcoming physical hardship, it's about delivering a healthy baby and staying healthy yourself.
I am not the one in your quote!
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Old 03.08.2012, 12:08
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Re: Pain relief during childbirth?

Just how many babies have you given birth to? You are being a tad idealistic, be careful because if you need intervention how are you going to cope with it mentally since you have this fairy tale ideal of how it is going to go for you? You are right to prepare & hope for the best but be prepared also for things going wrong and an emergency c-section or that you can't actually cope with the pain and demand an epidural. None of these things are failures just remember the most important thing is that your baby comes out alive, how that happens in the end is irrelevant.

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Oh, think positive darkhorsesea

It is not the same for every woman. Every woman is different, every birth is different.

Yes, some have had traumatic experiences but there's a reason. Such as their body not
coping or mentally not being prepared or labour is just not right (but this would be noticeable way in advance).

I think if we know our selves and our body well, if we are healthy and try to prepare and exercise
both body and mind for the upcoming birth, then pain becomes part of the process, we deal with it and we focus on the baby coming!!

If you feel comfortable with your midwife, she'll prepare you and there's much you can do well in advance!
i.e Yoga, twice a day on daily basis, swimming, birthing massage every now and then or acupuncture. There are many ways to prepare
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Old 03.08.2012, 12:11
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Re: Pain relief during childbirth?

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Just how many babies have you given birth to? You are being a tad idealistic, be careful because if you need intervention how are you going to cope with it mentally since you have this fairy tale ideal of how it is going to go for you? You are right to prepare & hope for the best but be prepared also for things going wrong and an emergency c-section or that you can't actually cope with the pain and demand an epidural. None of these things are failures just remember the most important thing is that your baby comes out alive, how that happens in the end is irrelevant.
Agreed.

My birth plan was in 3 points:

1- natural birth without pain relief
2- if cant handle it anymore, epidural
3- if something goes wrong, c-section.

I was prepared for all except for an incompetent doctor.
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Old 03.08.2012, 12:36
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Re: Pain relief during childbirth?

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For the record too, I didn't do any specific birth preparation. When I first went into the hospital, the midwives showed me how to breathe to help cope with the pain. It helped a bit until the sickness and back labor kicked in.
Ok. This is why it the serious medical intervention was needed. Because you were healthy, just not well prepared.
Medical interventions are mostly planned in advance and doctors know in advance if there's a chance that a labour will be difficult.

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For many women, the healing from a c-section is very comfortable whilst healing from the heaps of stitches/tearing due to vaginal childbirth is far worse. Talk to a woman who's had a 3rd of 4th degree tear and still can't enjoy sex a year+ later.
Vaginal tears, especially to that degree happen because the woman is not RELAXED enough to allow muscles and the opening to actually OPEN.
There are exercises and techniques that allow a woman to do just that!

You exercise and prepare your body for it. And it is really nothing special or fancy. i.e practice 4 -5 times a day, tightening your pelvic muscles
(as if you are stopping you pee ) and hold for 5 seconds, then release. OR do squatting exercises, they are perfect for stretching pelvic muscles.

All of woman have no tear or a natural one that heals very well on it's own.

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Your assumption that one choice causes more problems than the other isn't accurate. And this links in with the whole "natural childbirth" badge I talked about.
I'm saying that for me it would be more problematic because I know myself. I don't want my stomach cut open.
I do not want stitches or scars. Basically, I do not want unnecessary operations.

Of course, if for the baby's health it is necessary then I will.

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So you're applying the thoughts of one physician to the entire medical profession? Yes, I do think *some* physicians/hospitals can be overzealous with interventions. No argument there. But many medical procedures in questions are *critical* to save mother and baby. No other reason.
No, not one doctor. A nation of doctors but of course they are not all the same. I would like to think that I'm not so shallow as to go around generalizing.


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And in my case, no interventions were done beyond the epidural and oxytocin. In fact, the epidural had to be specifically requested and was not offered since my birth plan had stated "no" to it.
Ok, so along the way you decided you needed/wanted an epidural.


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P.S. To say that nobody dies from pain isn't entirely true. I won't go into chronic pain and mortality. But in terms of childbirth, the intensity, type and duration of pain can prevent a mother from safely delivering her baby. This kind of statement again implies that a woman shouldn't accept pain relief.
In my opinion, not true. Intensity of pain during childbirth is has three stages and they are no mystery. Duration depends on how prepared your body is, some will deliver in 2 -3 hrs, other's in 6 - 8hrs. And yes, it will hurt. No one has ever said otherwise. It all comes down to knowing oneself and making the right choice, for you
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Old 03.08.2012, 12:40
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Re: Pain relief during childbirth?

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Be careful because if you need intervention how are you going to cope with it mentally since you have this fairy tale ideal of how it is going to go for you?
Do you really think that the there is no plan or thought or preparation to the fact that things might not go smoothly? If yes, that is ridiculous in every sense.
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Old 03.08.2012, 12:46
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Re: Pain relief during childbirth?

I plan for the worst, hope for the best and "prepare" my mind and body for birth.
I do not leave things to chance. But I know what I want and mind power is
half the battle in good times and bad times. This is how I have lived my life.

Thank you for your advice and I wish all moms to be, all the best
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Old 03.08.2012, 12:47
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Re: Pain relief during childbirth?

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Do you really think that the there is no plan or thought or preparation to the fact that things might not go smoothly? If yes, that is ridiculous in every sense.
You remind me of a college student that has studied a subject for years but has never actually worked in their field.

Believe me, your body will suddenly become foreign to you during childbirth. It's not about a state of mind but being ready for anything.
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Old 03.08.2012, 12:48
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Re: Pain relief during childbirth?

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You exercise and prepare your body for it.

In my opinion, not true. Intensity of pain during childbirth is has three stages and they are no mystery. Duration depends on how prepared your body is
So all women who have complications were simply not prepared? Should have, you know, exercised more and there never would have been any issues?

It's your first, right?
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Old 03.08.2012, 12:52
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Re: Pain relief during childbirth?

Actually about everything you have written about other peoples experience is ridiculous and judgmental. You come across as a someone expecting the birth of your baby to follow some idealistic view you have conjured up. Everyone else posting has been there and done it so you could at least give them some credence instead of telling them that they were not prepared especially as you have no idea how they prepared. I really wish you luck when it comes to the time for you to give birth because from everything you have written your rose tinted glasses are going to be ripped off.

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Do you really think that the there is no plan or thought or preparation to the fact that things might not go smoothly? If yes, that is ridiculous in every sense.
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