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Old 03.08.2012, 13:09
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Re: Pain relief during childbirth?

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Ok. This is why it the serious medical intervention was needed. Because you were healthy, just not well prepared.
Medical interventions are mostly planned in advance and doctors know in advance if there's a chance that a labour will be difficult.
Oh my word. For serious now. I needed an epidural because after a week of labor, I still had a posterior baby that caused back labor that resulted in me being unable to walk and was causing contractions consistent with transition, yet I was only 3 cm dilated. I was contorting like the blasted exorcist. No mind power would have stopped those spasms. On top of that I was sick as a beast. I'd love to know how yoga and meditation or what have you can hold back vomit.

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Vaginal tears, especially to that degree happen because the woman is not RELAXED enough to allow muscles and the opening to actually OPEN.
There are exercises and techniques that allow a woman to do just that!
So by your terms, pain relief from an epidural should be great. An epidural relieves pain so that a woman can relax. So exercises, techniques or an epidural are all excellent options.

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Yes, some have had traumatic experiences but there's a reason. Such as their body not
coping or mentally not being prepared or labour is just not right (but this would be noticeable way in advance)
This kind of comment makes me very angry. We knew in advance that the baby was posterior and I spent months trying to turn him naturally. It didn't happen.

Last edited by little_isabella; 03.08.2012 at 13:29. Reason: Didn't make sense. ;p
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Old 03.08.2012, 13:22
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Re: Pain relief during childbirth?

Bless you Liajoe,

Every woman prepares, every woman gives her best, no woman wants to suffer, and all women want a healthy happy birth.

Most of the time this is the case
Sometimes it is not

If you are truly prepared for every scenario, then all will be well.

Most of the women speaking in this thread are mothers.

Just realize that it will be the most beautiful moment of your life, whether it be natural, with or without pain meds or a c-section, and you never ever be the same again. You'll see life differently, we all do.
You might resist the change and wish to feel in control, but it will happen anyway.

I too wished for a natural birth. I gave birth at 8 months via emergency c-section. I am grateful every day that the efficient doctors saved my child's life and my own. I am also thankful to have been born in a century where science and medical technology were advanced enough to save us.

And no, absolutely not, it is an illusion to believe that one can predict complications.

Nevertheless cases like my own, are few are very far between. We are made to give birth and most of us can without any issues whatsoever.
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Old 03.08.2012, 13:26
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Re: Pain relief during childbirth?

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Oh my word. For serious now. I needed an epidural because after a week of labor, I still had a posterior baby that caused back labor that resulted in me being unable to walk and was causing contractions consistent with transition, yet I was only 3 cm dilated. I was contorting like the blasted exorcist. No mind power would have stopped those spasms. On top of that I was sick as a beast. I'd love to know how yoga and meditation or what have you can hold back vomit.
I apologize for that, I did not read your post carefully. About your posterior baby.

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So by your terms, pain relief from an epidural should be great. An epidural relaxes a woman such that she can relax. So exercises, techniques or an epidural are all excellent options.
I don't understand why you are all attacking, I never said that any medical intervention is "wrong" or not "proper".
I simply stated that it will be my last resort.

And yes, it is my first child but I have assisted a few. So, I'm not a stranger to it. That's all.
I didn't know it is so wrong to think positive. I will begin to dwell on how difficult and painful
and basically awful giving birth will be.

I do apologize for coming across as devaluating your experiences. That was not my intention.
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Old 03.08.2012, 13:31
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Re: Pain relief during childbirth?

It's ok Liajoe, it just a sensitive issue to many women.
Most young mothers are frightened and preoccupied and most of the time there's no need to be, for all will go well.

All the expectant mothers here will probably have easy births (statistically speaking). But it's always wise to check everything out, so that the unexpected doesn't surprise in any way.

take care y'all mammas
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Old 03.08.2012, 13:32
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Re: Pain relief during childbirth?

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Again, even with all the perfect preparation, it is not a garanty of having a good birth experience.
Yes, we know this. They do inform us of that.
Why do we need to keep repeating it and focusing on it is what I didn't understand.
I also didn't understand why it is so wrong to focus on the positive aspect of it.
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Old 03.08.2012, 13:36
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Re: Pain relief during childbirth?

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I apologize for that, I did not read your post carefully. About your posterior baby.



I don't understand why you are all attacking, I never said that any medical intervention is "wrong" or not "proper".
I simply stated that it will be my last resort.

And yes, it is my first child but I have assisted a few. So, I'm not a stranger to it. That's all.
I didn't know it is so wrong to think positive. I will begin to dwell on how difficult and painful
and basically awful giving birth will be.

I do apologize for coming across as devaluating your experiences. That was not my intention.
I'm sorry to read that you feel attacked. I'll try to explain where the anger comes from in my case.

It's not wrong to think positive at all! But it's unfair to take the experiences of other women and then prescribe a solution that would have made the outcome "better." This devalues the experience, as you say, and implies that the woman is somehow deficient. The fact that your comments all speak in support of non-medical approaches, particularly as a way that these women's experiences would have involved a better outcome, is the part I find so offensive. This, to me, is saying that what the person did and chose was wrong and that to "right" it would have been to do something you stated involving a non-medical technique.

Hope that clarifies. =)
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Old 03.08.2012, 13:38
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Re: Pain relief during childbirth?

Thank you Sky

We need support, that is why we come. We are afraid, I am afraid.
But I want to be the best I can for my baby.

Olygirl is right. I do sound like a college girl (re reading my posts).
But this is what I know. And I know a woman who has died giving birth
because of an unlucky situation...but I just can not and do not want to
focus on that.

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Old 03.08.2012, 13:39
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Re: Pain relief during childbirth?

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Yes, we know this. They do inform us of that.
Why do we need to keep repeating it and focusing on it is what I didn't understand.
I also didn't understand why it is so wrong to focus on the positive aspect of it.
Why? Because the chances are quite high that your birth will not be "perfect".

I went to "Schwangerschaftsturnen" where they concentrated on having a natural birth. Breathing, pushing, the stages of pain, relaxation exercises and so on were all explained and practiced. No one mentioned what might happen if things don't go according to plan.

Out of my circle of friends, about half have had C-sections and not by choice.

So, it's great to be positive but don't be disillusional. I was glad to have had all the training but I wish someone would have told me it's quite normal not to have a "natural" birth and I shouldn't feel guilty about it.
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Old 03.08.2012, 13:50
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Re: Pain relief during childbirth?

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Thank you Sky

We need support, that is why we come. We are afraid, I am afraid.
But I want to be the best I can for my baby.

Olygirl is right. I do sound like a college girl (re reading my posts).
But this is what I know. And I know a woman who has died giving birth
because of an unlucky situation...but I just can not and do not want to
focus on that.

I guessed.. I read your worry between between your lines.

I had complications and see..
I'm here to tell the tale and so is my tall teenager.
Even in difficulty, all went well in the end

A very large majority of the women could probably have their babies at home, and it true that we have medicalized birth in our times and it is also true that it's a natural process not an illness, so you're very right to stay and feel positive.

It's nice to have a back-up plan if needed and just quickly forget about it when all is past and everything is well.
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Old 03.08.2012, 14:52
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Re: Pain relief during childbirth?

I didn't mean to sound as if I am attacking, your posts sounded so naive and idealistic I felt like I wanted to give you a shake to wake you up to the reality of what you are going to go through. Not in terms of "wow it is going to be a horrible time" but trying to get you to understand that things will be different than how you expect them. I have heard about and know so many women who had the some outlook as you who then became depressed after the birth because they needed intervention, they felt like failures. This to me is the saddest part about "natural" birth, expectations are set so high then the women makes herself feel bad even though she has a beautiful, healthy baby. Yes you will probably have a wonderful experience with no problems but just be prepared to change your birth plan if needed. A safe you and baby is the ultimate goal.

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I don't understand why you are all attacking
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Old 03.08.2012, 14:54
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Re: Pain relief during childbirth?

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I didn't mean to sound as if I am attacking, your posts sounded so naive and idealistic I felt like I wanted to give you a shake to wake you up to the reality of what you are going to go through. Not in terms of "wow it is going to be a horrible time" but trying to get you to understand that things will be different than how you expect them. I have heard about and know so many women who had the some outlook as you who then became depressed after the birth because they needed intervention, they felt like failures. This to me is the saddest part about "natural" birth, expectations are set so high then the women makes herself feel bad even though she has a beautiful, healthy baby. Yes you will probably have a wonderful experience with no problems but just be prepared to change your birth plan if needed. A safe you and baby is the ultimate goal.
Yes that was my mistake after reading the blue sky, singing birds fairy tale of Ina May's book on giving birth.
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Old 03.08.2012, 16:06
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Re: Pain relief during childbirth?

I had my daughter with no pain relief but I can assure you that it wasn't out of choice. After 10 hours of labour and stuck at 3cms dilated I begged for an epidural. I was throwing up constantly, had a headache and was really struggling with the contractions.

My midwife refused to listen to me and wouldn't even give me paracetemol for the headache It didn't help that my now ex was fast asleep in the chair and didn't help me. Quite how he could sleep through me shouting and swearing I don't know. Labour turned me into an old fishwife

The labour continued for another 16 hours before my little one arrived.

To make matters worse, the midwife then managed to rip the placenta so I then had to have an epidural so it could be surgically removed.

All the pain of the labour and then still not able to walk for about 5 hours and having to have a catheter in. Nice work midwife.
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Old 03.08.2012, 19:09
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Re: Pain relief during childbirth?

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I don't understand why you are all attacking, I never said that any medical intervention is "wrong" or not "proper".
I simply stated that it will be my last resort.
To be fair, I think for most women an intervention is the last resort. In my case I faffed along in labour for the first few hours then when my contractions started turning up the heat I thought "Bollocks to it, why do I need to go through the this pain when they have a nice comfy jab in my back and it makes it all go away."

As it happens, the epidural actually facilitated the labour because it took the tension out of me which was preventing labour from progressing. If someone had suggested yoga I'd have laughed in their face shortly before coshing them with a kidney dish.

When I think back to the weeks before I gave birth I was full of "Oh I'm going to be doing everything natural. Whale music, favourite pillow and joss sticks should be on my list of things to pack in my hospital bag."

The reality was that I just read a magazine at the beginning of the labour, munched through two bags of Maltesers then screamed and swore through the remainder of the time whilst looking for the number of a good divorce lawyer.

The epidural turned me back into the picture of serenity I normally am.

Idyllic, eh?
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Old 03.08.2012, 19:19
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Re: Pain relief during childbirth?

Epidural allowed me to sleep for an hour or so in 60 hours... I was very greatful.
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Old 05.08.2012, 11:56
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Re: Pain relief during childbirth?



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Old 05.08.2012, 12:35
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Re: Pain relief during childbirth?

It is sad that these conversations become so polarized.

There are of course many instances where a C-section is the very best for both mother and baby. As in my case with our first one - a transversal breech and no dilation beyond 3 cm after 10 hrs and baby getting distressed. In Ye Olde days, we would have both died probably. And yes, there are many cases of poor management, by midwives or doctors - but they are still proportionally RARE, thank goodness. An episiotomy that was badly done, is not a reason to say that episiotomies are generally bad, or that the only alternative is a C-section- surely? Totally agree though, that the US policy of doing episiotomies on all women to hasten the process and get them out of the door is WRONG, and a form of abuse.

Must say I am so glad I was able to have our second 'naturally' - with a bit of help with gas and air and gentle forceps at the end to avoid an episiotomy and too much strain on the C-section scar.

We are all different, and each pregnancy, labour, is different too. But as a GENERAL principle,, I agree that it is a shame that we are getting to the stage where women in the West cannot and will not give birth without a c-section or epidural. Both carry high risks - and should still only be for specific cases, with a serious balancing of risks and advantages.

Within 1 or 2 generations - women in the West will have totally lost the ability to give birth 'normally', and I think this is sad.
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Old 05.08.2012, 12:44
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Re: Pain relief during childbirth?

lilajoe. That is a 7 minute video. I have three children that took 72 hours, 36 hours and 5.5 hours to be born. The first two were persistently posterior. You have *no idea* what labour is like. You have not had your baby yet. My grandma had 12 babies. She never tells anyone about how they should/shouldn't have their babies, or bring them up. She is grateful that the 12th survived, as he had the cord wrapped around his neck, and she could not push him out. She says 'there but for the grace of God go I'.

My third child was a wonderful homebirth/waterbirth. But I don't regret my two hospital/epidural/assisted births. Nor do I place judgement on what may happen to other women. I own my own birth experience, I don't own anyone else's. Posterior labour seriously impairs contractions. You have no idea what the back pain is like until you've experienced it. In my case the back pain just killed every proper contraction I had, for most of the prelabour stage, and the labour did not progress for many many many hours, but I could not sleep, eat (I would spew) or get comfortable (spent 24 hours trying to rest/sleep over a beandbag, or on my hands and knees on a water bed).

My sister's waters broke before labour started. That's something she had absolutely no control over. Without induction drugs, in the 'old' times her baby probably would have died or been seriously ill before the labour began - they induced her labour more than 24 hours after her waters broke, she spent 15 hours on a drip/epidural, and managed to push her baby out, but it was one hell of a journey.

Please stop posting on here arguing with women who have already had babies. Go and have yours, and come back and tell us about it later...

My babies were born 4.2 kilos, 3.8 kilos and 4.7 kilos. My two babies had to turn in the birth canal and risked getting their shoulders caught between my spine and public bone, because their size and positioning. That's also a scary experience, but I did it.

My advice ?

- be aware of all your options
- focus on each contraction as if there will be only one
- avoid induction if possible (that takes a will of steel when your babies go 10-11-12-13 days overdue and you just *want* them out of there)...but if you get pre-eclampsia, poorly controlled diabetes, or the baby has complications, you're gonna need to get that baby out of there sooner.
- plan for all possibilities, recognise that you are not 'in control' of the process.
- get a support team that you feel very comfortable with
- treat labour as a 'marathon', not a 'sprint' - they don't call it 'labour' for nothing!

Your comment: "I do not leave things to chance. But I know what I want..."

That bothers me. You actually do have to leave things to chance. What other mums are saying is 'give up control' of the process, because you will find that your body reacts beyond your mind control. In fact I would go so far as you say that the 'giving up control' to the process - and leaving your mind/will behind, is actually more positive to your birth process - trusting your body to know what you do, and not expecting your mind to be able to control - may be what is needed - as your fear (and I think it's healthy and normal to fear what is a powerful and dangerous thing in our lives) will undermine your labour - whilst your mind gives away the fear, your body takes over the birthing process, and does what it is designed to do. Do you eat because your mind says you need to eat x many calories a day ? No, we should eat when we are hungry.

Labour is a powerful process. My feeling is that the first labour is the hardest but the first pregnancy the easiest. And then afterwards, the baby.... and my first baby was also my most difficult, so the challenge did not end with the birth. It's normal in the third trimester to be so focused on the birth you almost forget to look beyond and start imagining/preparing/pondering on what it will be to have a baby in your home, what it will be like to be 'on call' 24/7, to have to deal with their every need....for years....for ever....
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Old 05.08.2012, 12:53
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Re: Pain relief during childbirth?

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It is sad that these conversations become so polarized.

There are of course many instances where a C-section is the very best for both mother and baby. As in my case with our first one - a transversal breech and no dilation beyond 3 cm after 10 hrs and baby getting distressed. In Ye Olde days, we would have both died probably. And yes, there are many cases of poor management, by midwives or doctors - but they are still proportionally RARE, thank goodness. An episiotomy that was badly done, is not a reason to say that episiotomies are generally bad, or that the only alternative is a C-section- surely? Totally agree though, that the US policy of doing episiotomies on all women to hasten the process and get them out of the door is WRONG, and a form of abuse.

Must say I am so glad I was able to have our second 'naturally' - with a bit of help with gas and air and gentle forceps at the end to avoid an episiotomy and too much strain on the C-section scar.

We are all different, and each pregnancy, labour, is different too. But as a GENERAL principle,, I agree that it is a shame that we are getting to the stage where women in the West cannot and will not give birth without a c-section or epidural. Both carry high risks - and should still only be for specific cases, with a serious balancing of risks and advantages.

Within 1 or 2 generations - women in the West will have totally lost the ability to give birth 'normally', and I think this is sad.
Episiotomies are less common in the US (and most other places, with exceptions) now than they once were. They occured in 31% of births in 1997, compared to 56% in 1979.

http://journals.lww.com/greenjournal...79_1997.6.aspx

It is amazingly popular in Latin America, at a rate of 90% http://www.bmj.com/content/324/7343/...&pmid=11964339
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Old 05.08.2012, 15:04
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Re: Pain relief during childbirth?

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lilajoe. That is a 7 minute video. I have three children that took 72 hours, 36 hours and 5.5 hours to be born. The first two were persistently posterior. You have *no idea* what labour is like. You have not had your baby yet. My grandma had 12 babies. She never tells anyone about how they should/shouldn't have their babies, or bring them up. She is grateful that the 12th survived, as he had the cord wrapped around his neck, and she could not push him out. She says 'there but for the grace of God go I'.

My third child was a wonderful homebirth/waterbirth. But I don't regret my two hospital/epidural/assisted births. Nor do I place judgement on what may happen to other women. I own my own birth experience, I don't own anyone else's. Posterior labour seriously impairs contractions. You have no idea what the back pain is like until you've experienced it. In my case the back pain just killed every proper contraction I had, for most of the prelabour stage, and the labour did not progress for many many many hours, but I could not sleep, eat (I would spew) or get comfortable (spent 24 hours trying to rest/sleep over a beandbag, or on my hands and knees on a water bed).

My sister's waters broke before labour started. That's something she had absolutely no control over. Without induction drugs, in the 'old' times her baby probably would have died or been seriously ill before the labour began - they induced her labour more than 24 hours after her waters broke, she spent 15 hours on a drip/epidural, and managed to push her baby out, but it was one hell of a journey.

Please stop posting on here arguing with women who have already had babies. Go and have yours, and come back and tell us about it later...

My babies were born 4.2 kilos, 3.8 kilos and 4.7 kilos. My two babies had to turn in the birth canal and risked getting their shoulders caught between my spine and public bone, because their size and positioning. That's also a scary experience, but I did it.

My advice ?

- be aware of all your options
- focus on each contraction as if there will be only one
- avoid induction if possible (that takes a will of steel when your babies go 10-11-12-13 days overdue and you just *want* them out of there)...but if you get pre-eclampsia, poorly controlled diabetes, or the baby has complications, you're gonna need to get that baby out of there sooner.
- plan for all possibilities, recognise that you are not 'in control' of the process.
- get a support team that you feel very comfortable with
- treat labour as a 'marathon', not a 'sprint' - they don't call it 'labour' for nothing!

Your comment: "I do not leave things to chance. But I know what I want..."

That bothers me. You actually do have to leave things to chance. What other mums are saying is 'give up control' of the process, because you will find that your body reacts beyond your mind control. In fact I would go so far as you say that the 'giving up control' to the process - and leaving your mind/will behind, is actually more positive to your birth process - trusting your body to know what you do, and not expecting your mind to be able to control - may be what is needed - as your fear (and I think it's healthy and normal to fear what is a powerful and dangerous thing in our lives) will undermine your labour - whilst your mind gives away the fear, your body takes over the birthing process, and does what it is designed to do. Do you eat because your mind says you need to eat x many calories a day ? No, we should eat when we are hungry.

Labour is a powerful process. My feeling is that the first labour is the hardest but the first pregnancy the easiest. And then afterwards, the baby.... and my first baby was also my most difficult, so the challenge did not end with the birth. It's normal in the third trimester to be so focused on the birth you almost forget to look beyond and start imagining/preparing/pondering on what it will be to have a baby in your home, what it will be like to be 'on call' 24/7, to have to deal with their every need....for years....for ever....
What a wonderful post.

I also feel for you having to cope with the posterior presentation. Yes, back labor is a level of pain that can't truly be described. The frustration to go through that for so long and then hear you're not even dilating much is tough because I had that whole fluffy positive thinking of "each contraction is necessary and important for my body to allow my baby to pass through." I wish. Mine also had the umbilical cord wrapped tightly around his neck twice but because I delivered so fast after he turned, no intervention was needed.

Again, lovely post. You've presented birth in an empowering but realistic way.
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Old 05.08.2012, 15:36
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Re: Pain relief during childbirth?

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Please stop posting on here arguing with women who have already had babies. Go and have yours, and come back and tell us about it later...
I posted a video and I added a smiley. I did not comment.
But somehow this comes across as negative/judgmental behavior.

And yesterday, I did run into a mother of two children who had planned
to give birth vaginally but had to have CS's. We had a great conversation in every aspect.

I will stop posting here altogether though. Thank you though for your advice
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