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Old 07.06.2019, 16:37
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Re: Alcoholism treatment and help

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This is the English forum, not the German forum, if you can't post links in English, then don't post please
It's about a man who can wee in a river from a distance of about 3 metres. He's the talk of the town.
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  #302  
Old 07.06.2019, 17:46
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Re: Alcoholism treatment and help

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It's about a man who can wee in a river from a distance of about 3 metres. He's the talk of the town.

Sorry. I did not reaalize. I was using google translate. I suppose most on this list do not or can not use this.

I would expect any more from you with this comment
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Old 07.06.2019, 17:49
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Re: Alcoholism treatment and help

Here is the google translation of the aticle.


Im Thomi, and I'm addicted." That's how hundreds of people report every week in Switzerland. They are members of one of the country's largest self-help organizations, Narcotics Anonymous (NA). Although the meetings attract more and more addicts, the Swiss offshoot of the international organization is almost unknown. "Because we do not have a boss and we do not want subsidies, we fly under the radar of drug policy," says one representative.
Each week more than 60 meetings of Anonymous drug users take place. In Windisch and Liestal, in Sierre and Yverdon, in Basel and Bellinzona. Addicts say there are other addicts of their fight against drug addiction legalize drugsHow bad are drugs really?, similar to Alcoholics Anonymous.
Lifelong risk of relapse
"Narcotics Anonymous saved my ass," says Thomi *. "Only thanks to the NA community have I become permanently clean," he tells the nine women and the ten men who sit in a circle with him. It is Tuesday afternoon in Zurich city center, the group meets behind drawn curtains. Anonymity is important. Most know each other only by their first name.
The noon meeting is Thomis first NA event of the week. In 2002, he last took drugs, since then he visits every week about three meetings. "To stay clean, I need these meetings. If I have a glass of alcohol alcoholismif the spouse is an alcoholicwould drink that night ended with a syringe in his arm. I have experienced it several times. The monster is back immediately. Even after 17 years of abstinence, I am at risk of relapse. "

"I need the meetings to stay clean. If I was drinking, the night ended with a syringe in my arm. "

Nine out of ten drug users do not become addicted, according to the UN World Drug Report, But for those who hit it can be life threatening. Thomi, 52, has survived 22 years of drug addiction. He started as a 13-year-old with alcohol. As a teenager, he squandered cultivated grass on the Zurich Platzspitz and bought himself for cocaine and LSD. After completing his apprenticeship, he got herpes on Latvian heroin. "I looked down at the DrŲgelers there. I had an apartment and a job. And I just smoked the heroin off the slide. Because I did not inject, I was not really addicted. I thought. "After a move to the Zurich Oberland he sat down then but the first shot. He stole, had to go to jail. "The NA people were the first to accept me. Despite my many relapses. They are like a second family to me. "
The head of the lunch meeting, the Chairwoman, clears her throat: "We spend a moment of silence for those who are still suffering and for those who have died of their addiction today. To remind us where we're from. "The round is silent. Some close their eyes, others smile. Schalk flashes. And despair.
piritual core
Who wants, can tell for three minutes. For two participants it is the first meeting after a relapse. They are hugged. That they have come is the only thing that matters. It tells stories about drug renunciation, new education, the end of a relationship. Or self-deprecating jokes that make everyone laugh. The open nature creates trust. Nobody accuses others, nobody gives advice. At the end of the meeting, they all stand up and put their hands over their shoulders, speaking in a circle of serenity prayer: "God, give me the serenity to accept things that I can not change, and the courage to change things that I change can ... "It is the spiritual core of the NA assembly. But God is only a spiritual force in NA. "I left the church,
For the first 90 days after the withdrawal, he attended a meeting every day. "Without that, I would not have made the exit," he says. "At NA, I learned: I'm not wrong. I could take care of myself and my mistakes. Nobody else can give you that sense of belonging. Ľ
Temptation Platzspitz
Thomi leads a life today against any odds. The ex-junkie lives abstinent and does not take any drug substitutes such as methadone cancer therapyMethadone can have fatal consequences. He works as a caretaker and caretaker in a clinic for addicts, has been with his partner for eleven years and runs karate. "I was a hopeless case," he says. For seven years he had tried to get clean, made more than 20 withdrawals. At home, in clinics, abroad. Nothing helped. "The physical withdrawal was not bad. But the emotions that come when you're clean. I realized what I did to my parents. That I was all behind. That I could no longer maintain friendships and the addiction determined me. Ľ
At some point it was over. "I did not hit the veins anymore because I had water in my legs and arms. I knew I would die if I did not change anything. "So Thomi went to a NA meeting for the first time during a methadone program. "For a year, the addiction pressure was huge. Several times I would almost relapse. If I walked past Platzspitz, I immediately had huge addiction pressure. "Then he called an NA member, often his" sponsor. " This is the confidant who chooses each NA member.
Thomi always celebrates his new, drug-free life on 17 March. It's his clean birthday. "I celebrate it more than my real birthday." Thomi then brings each of the toast cake and guests to the meeting, most recently his eldest sister. "She congratulated me and said, 'Today, 17 years ago, I got my brother back.' That touched me a lot. '
The clean life is simply not simple: "Rarely does the monkey tell me on the shoulder: Come on, just a beer. But thanks to the meetings, I can not listen to him anymore. They are like mental health. I say, what is my problem. I listen to people who had a relapse. That makes me humble. I'm a master at pretending something. The meetings bring me down again. Ľ
Reservations of experts
The only requirement for attending an NA meeting is a desire to stop using drugs. Alcohol is mitgemeint. NA members do not expect doctors or psychologists to solve their problems. They enable their own recovery by acknowledging that they have an addiction disorder.
According to NA theory - as in Alcoholics Anonymous AlcoholismWhen enjoyment becomes a compulsion- a twelve-step program is the goal. It's about accepting help, meditating, or apologizing to those who have been deceived. Each member should work through this program. Again and again. An addicted person never gets cured, according to NA literature. Addicts are in lifelong recovery.
A view that many addicts share. "Substance disorders are chronic diseases. Even if you are clean, the mental dependence continues. The disease is not curable, but manageable, "says senior physician Margit Proescholdt of the University Psychiatric Clinics Basel. She recommends patients to visit a self-help group after the physical withdrawal. Which, is not decisive. The spiritual approach of the NA was not every good thing. "Can I believe in a higher power that helps me overcome the craving for drugs?" If someone could use his spirituality for themselves, that would be good.

"I did not hit the veins anymore, knew I would die if I continued like this."

"Supporting the group creates motivation to stay clean," explains Proescholdt. "Affected are experts in their disease. Patients tend to believe patients because they have tried their own prescription. They make it work, "says the head of the Center for Addiction Diseases.
But there is also criticism. "NA, through its approach of absolute abstinence, excludes people who have opted for the path of controlled consumption. Or for a methadone program, for example Ľ, says Ulrike Sanwald. The head doctor of integrated psychiatry Winterthur-Unterland sees NA meetings as a possibility for many addiction patients. "But with opiate addicts, such as heroin, the abstinence concept of NA brings dangers."
In abstinence, the body quickly wins off the substance. "If it comes to a relapse, even fractions of the former opiate dose can lead to an overdose." The medical risk is a relapse with opiates much higher than with cocaine or alcohol. On the other hand, those who have a relapse on methadone are less at risk. "Together with the patients, I weigh up the chances and risks of the abstinence approach." Finally, the patients themselves should decide what they want.
Abstinence is possible
The radical NA abstinence theory is often handled casually, says senior physician Proescholdt of her Basler patients. "The self-help group writes abstinence big. But many patients with drug substitutes from our clinic still feel at ease. ĽIt is important that everything is voluntary. "There is no compulsory attendance, no brainwashing. If it gets too much, you can go. The NA is not a sect. Otherwise we would not recommend them as a possibility. "Of course, an abstinent life carries risks. But even a controlled consumption is not an easy way.
Thomi knows how dangerous a relapse would be for him. "An acquaintance died after over a decade of abstinence from drugs. That took me a lot. "He lives abstinence because he can not control the addiction. If others consume in a controlled manner, that's okay.
Maybe clean heroin addicts are a minority. "Abstinence is not the right way for everyone, but it is possible. I am the living proof. "It enables him to live a life he loves. "I have recaptured my freedom and my happiness, thanks to NA, thanks to meditation and thanks to karate."
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  #304  
Old 07.06.2019, 18:45
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Re: Alcoholism treatment and help

It is the English forum and it is accepted that links should be posted in English, some of us speak German, some French, some Italaina an da lot English


As for bothering to translate whatever drivel you post do you really think i care ?


Now, it's about apero time here in the civilised area, anybody for a nice large G & (small) t ?
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Old 07.06.2019, 19:28
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Re: Alcoholism treatment and help

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It is the English forum and it is accepted that links should be posted in English, some of us speak German, some French, some Italaina an da lot English


As for bothering to translate whatever drivel you post do you really think i care ?


Now, it's about apero time here in the civilised area, anybody for a nice large G & (small) t ?

No I do not think that you care. The only thing you care about is having your apero
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  #306  
Old 07.06.2019, 19:29
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Re: Alcoholism treatment and help

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No I do not think that you care. The only thing you care about is having your apero
So??
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Old 07.06.2019, 19:36
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Re: Alcoholism treatment and help

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No I do not think that you care. The only thing you care about is having your apero
Suppose your posts are geared to those with a real problem, no? If so, maybe you say it yourself and very clearly at that, otherwise this ping pong match will never cease.

Judging by the thread's title, you're in the right posting here. Just make clear you don't believe everyone who drinks a little once in a while suffers from alcoholism. Maybe that's what're implying and makes people pissed at you.
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Old 07.06.2019, 19:47
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Re: Alcoholism treatment and help

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Suppose your posts are geared to those with a real problem, no? If so, maybe you say it yourself and very clearly at that, otherwise this ping pong match will never cease.

Judging by the thread's title, you're in the right posting here. Just make clear you don't believe everyone who drinks a little once in a while suffers from alcoholism. Maybe that's what're implying and makes people pissed at you.

I have repeatedly wrote that I do not think that everyone who drinks once in a while suffers from alcoholism. Actually a person who does not have a problem would respond the way some have responded. He would not be bothered. But a person who thinks that they might have a problem most certainly would be pissed off as you write. And I really do not care if these people are pissed at me. Actually it makes me smile.
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Old 07.06.2019, 20:11
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Re: Alcoholism treatment and help

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I have repeatedly wrote that I do not think that everyone who drinks once in a while suffers from alcoholism. Actually a person who does not have a problem would respond the way some have responded. He would not be bothered. But a person who thinks that they might have a problem most certainly would be pissed off as you write. And I really do not care if these people are pissed at me. Actually it makes me smile.
Well, if that then gives you the kick you need......
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Old 07.06.2019, 20:37
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Well, if that then gives you the kick you need......
Truly amazing.

I have posted to help people who have problems and who want to do something about it. Or maybe there are those who are wondering whether they do have a problem or not. Then there are those who have anger and negativity, often characteristics of those who have problems but deny it.

I have not given people nasty remarks like many who have done to me. Again this tells me there are those who are angry and negaticve for a reason.

What gives me a kick is when I help people find a better way of living. I have been contacted from people who have read some of the material that I have posted looking for help.
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Old 07.06.2019, 20:58
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Re: Alcoholism treatment and help

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I have not given people nasty remarks like many who have done to me. Again this tells me there are those who are angry and negaticve for a reason.
I think itís the smug and self-satisfied attitude that pisses people off. Your assumption that anyone who either disagrees or debunks or takes exception to your posts are somehow nursing some kind of alcohol addiction puts you in a totally negative light. It also erodes your credibility.

If this is anything even close to your professional persona, Iíd have my doubts as to your efficacy when dealing with people with real issues.

If you want to help, keep it neutral and dial down the pop psychology a few notches, eh?
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Old 07.06.2019, 21:29
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Re: Alcoholism treatment and help

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I think itís the smug and self-satisfied attitude that pisses people off. Your assumption that anyone who either disagrees or debunks or takes exception to your posts are somehow nursing some kind of alcohol addiction puts you in a totally negative light. It also erodes your credibility.

If this is anything even close to your professional persona, Iíd have my doubts as to your efficacy when dealing with people with real issues.

If you want to help, keep it neutral and dial down the pop psychology a few notches, eh?
You need to understand something. I am not smug and self satisfied. I have knowledge and experience which threatens many on this list. I have had a quick look at some of the other messages and see that a number of you have opinions on everything and can often be nasty. You seem to live on this forum and seems to be your whole life.

I really do not mind someone disagreeing debunking or taking exception. But it how it is done with nasty remarks and attempts to put down. It does not bother me but you need to be aware of this negativity which is a reflection of insecurity.

I do not really care about credability on this list. I am not looking for business. I do not need the business.

The pop psychology is coming from many on this list. I have put scientific articles and those even people critisize. The last article was very postive but once again another shot.

I have mentioned this list to a number of people and they raise their eyebrows and ask I am wasting my time on this list. This list has a bad reputation for this negativity. Unfortuunately this is reflective and many people today
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Old 07.06.2019, 21:32
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Re: Alcoholism treatment and help

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I think itís the smug and self-satisfied attitude that pisses people off. Your assumption that anyone who either disagrees or debunks or takes exception to your posts are somehow nursing some kind of alcohol addiction puts you in a totally negative light. It also erodes your credibility.

If this is anything even close to your professional persona, Iíd have my doubts as to your efficacy when dealing with people with real issues.

If you want to help, keep it neutral and dial down the pop psychology a few notches, eh?
One last thing. As I mentioned previously if a person who does not have a problem with addiction would not be reading this stream and would definitley not be botherred (pissed off) by what I write. You really need to ask yourself why it pisses you off.
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Old 07.06.2019, 21:43
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Re: Alcoholism treatment and help

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You need to understand something. I am not smug and self satisfied. I have knowledge and experience which threatens many on this list. I have had a quick look at some of the other messages and see that a number of you have opinions on everything and can often be nasty. You seem to live on this forum and seems to be your whole life.

I really do not mind someone disagreeing debunking or taking exception. But it how it is done with nasty remarks and attempts to put down. It does not bother me but you need to be aware of this negativity which is a reflection of insecurity.

I do not really care about credability on this list. I am not looking for business. I do not need the business.

The pop psychology is coming from many on this list. I have put scientific articles and those even people critisize. The last article was very postive but once again another shot.

I have mentioned this list to a number of people and they raise their eyebrows and ask I am wasting my time on this list. This list has a bad reputation for this negativity. Unfortuunately this is reflective and many people today
You are so way off 😂😂😂
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Old 07.06.2019, 21:49
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Re: Alcoholism treatment and help

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One last thing. As I mentioned previously if a person who does not have a problem with addiction would not be reading this stream and would definitley not be botherred (pissed off) by what I write. You really need to ask yourself why it pisses you off.
I didnít once say I was pissed off but throughout the thread you repeatedly dwell on what people think of you so I was offering you a reason. If you choose to ignore it, thatís up to you.

You keep rambling on about a Ďlistí but I donít have a clue what youíre on about so I canít help you with that.
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Old 07.06.2019, 21:56
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Re: Alcoholism treatment and help

It would be nice if the thread remained on topic rather than childish personal vendettas
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Old 07.06.2019, 21:59
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Re: Alcoholism treatment and help

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I didnít once say I was pissed off but throughout the thread you repeatedly dwell on what people think of you so I was offering you a reason. If you choose to ignore it, thatís up to you.

You keep rambling on about a Ďlistí but I donít have a clue what youíre on about so I canít help you with that.
I do not dwell on what people think of me. I don't care. I am writing that people make nasty comments.

When I use the word you it is plural.

The list is the English forum. Often discussion forums are referred to as lists.

Good examaple. You could have written that you do not understand about what my reference to list is ratheer than being critical with the word rambling.
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Old 07.06.2019, 22:00
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It would be nice if the thread remained on topic rather than childish personal vendettas
Nothing more than people telling what they think, vendetta??
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Old 07.06.2019, 22:01
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It would be nice if the thread remained on topic rather than childish personal vendettas
I agree. Thank you. This has arisen from an article I posted.

To be honest mossie I really do not think that it is possible to have a constrctive discussion on this forum abd definitley not about addiction.
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Old 07.06.2019, 22:06
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I agree. Thank you. This has arisen from an article I posted.

To be honest mossie I really do not think that it is possible to have a constrctive discussion on this forum abd definitley not about addiction.
If you are a therapist, do use a mirror once in a while?


Someone who does not agree with you does not have to be addicted as per your reasoning.


Anyway, I am on my way home, happy weekend
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