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Old 17.04.2010, 13:15
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Fraud at your dentist..."PA" or "DH"...???

Hi,
This week a new German dentist invited me to meet him and to see his new office. It was a spectacularly designed office, and he was a cool young man, with a pony tail. He sat behind his desk, with a guitar leaning against the wall, in his newly appointed private office. On the wall, hung many diplomas and certificates for the many specializations, which he has made. Seemed like a serious and friendly guy.

However, when I asked him about his preventive care and dental hygiene, a HUGE RED FLAG went up. He declared "his patients" (all of them...?) to be free of periodontal problems. For this reason, he hired a PA, who is an expanded dental assistant, to perform his dental cleanings. PAs are only allowed to clean "supra-gingivally" (above the gums) Hmmmmmm.....

Well, I can guarantee that 95% of all adult patients do need to have their teeth cleaned "sub-gingivally" (below the gums), even if it is only slightly. Everything, which is above the gums, or visible, is purely cosmetic, and not for the health of the periodontium (gums and bone) To be completely preventive, the deposits should be removed on a regular basis, in combination with good personal daily hygiene and good lifestyle choices (ie not smoking, sorry) Keeping your teeth, for a lifetime, AND saving your MONEY, depend upon these three choices....It is actually very easy. (I have worked in 5 countries for 30 years..and have personally seen the differences....)

To make the interview more interesting. The dentist looked at my brochure and claimed my prices were TOO CHEAP. Hmmmmm...another RED FLAG!

CONCLUSION: He charges more for his "dental hygiene", which is performed by a non-qualified person, for an insufficient treatment and the patients are totally UN-informed......

Always ask...."Are you a board certified Dental Hygienist"? Best advice ever...
Susan
American Dental Hygienist
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Old 17.04.2010, 13:26
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Re: Fraud at your dentist..."PA" or "DH"...???

AMEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Complete agreement!!!!!!!!
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Old 17.04.2010, 13:50
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Re: Fraud at your dentist..."PA" or "DH"...???

Thank You
And yes this is scary
when you go as a patiente you do not know what to ask or to look for and you can get a bad experience,this is what i got at a Swiss Dentist that
was highly talk ,i went for a Cleaning and told him i had a pain
on a lower theeth and told me i need to have some composit put between
my teeth and gum,so i decide to go to Germany as money is tight now.
Well in Germany the Dentist ask me questions how long the pain is after you eat,drink,did he took an X Ray ? ect,she took an X Ray and told me i have a nice decay on my theeth and i need to come back she will fix it!
I have to say i am not happy about the other guy nothing about where this Dentist is from,it s just about peoples not doing their job,i m in pain ,i explain well the pain i have and when i have the pain,and if i have done what he said, then i will have end up spending money for something that will not have treat the problem of this decay.
And i agree with you i think it is the job of a well trained dental hygienist to do dental cleaning,as they do well at my dentist practice in the USA and never had a problem when i lived in France.

Last edited by tititita; 17.04.2010 at 14:08. Reason: mistake
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Old 17.04.2010, 14:04
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Re: Fraud at your dentist..."PA" or "DH"...???

I am sorry you had this experience, as most dentists would know to take x-rays and to examine your teeth properly. There are many excellent German dentists here, as well.(should not have added his nationality..sorry) However, after 30 years, I believe patients need to be informed and to know which questions to ask.

In any case, a proper dental hygienist, is your best ally in preventive care. He, or she, does not make money by selling dentistry. Their job is to help you save your teeth and prevent gum disease. HOWEVER, dentists in Switzerland are presently keen to hire PAs, as they are cheaper for them.

Always ask...."Are you a professionally trained DENTAL HYGIENIST"? my best advice...

Good luck!
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Old 17.04.2010, 14:06
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Re: Fraud at your dentist..."PA" or "DH"...???

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To be completely preventive, the deposits should be removed on a regular basis, in combination with good personal daily hygiene and good lifestyle choices (ie not smoking, sorry)

Could you expand more? I brush first thing in the morning and I floss + brush before I go to bed. Is there something else I need to do?

Also I use the OralB rotating head brush device every other day. Do you have any idea how many seconds I should place it on each tooth?
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Old 17.04.2010, 14:10
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Re: Fraud at your dentist..."PA" or "DH"...???

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Also I use the OralB rotating head brush device every other day. Do you have any idea how many seconds I should place it on each tooth?
Check out OralB's website: http://www.oralb.com/products/electr...h/why-use.aspx
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Old 17.04.2010, 14:18
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Re: Fraud at your dentist..."PA" or "DH"...???

Susan57,
I just answer to your post
and you know the guy could have been for any place
i guess i should have not say he is Swiss so i m going to get
some Groan about that,but like i say i like this country it has
nothing to do about the nationality of the person all i try to say
is i went to a dentist here,it was my first experience and i got dissapointed
i understand everyone can make a mistake we are human and this
guy also can make a mistake,but maybe a quick X Ray of this teeth will have tell him him there was something wrong,and if i had decide to do the work with him i would have end up later on with a teeth in a bad shape as she told me the other dentist that the decay is deep.
So you get my point i just share my first visit in Switzerland at the dentist
this is it ,the dentist was nice he just miss the decay that it s.
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Old 17.04.2010, 14:25
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Re: Fraud at your dentist..."PA" or "DH"...???

Hi Scribble,
Basically, it is important to remove the PLAQUE from your teeth, using a soft toothbrush, or an electric one. Depending upon the position of your teeth, (if they are aligned straight, or crowded) and if you have gumline recession, one needs to adjust the methods. Since the PLAQUE is a sticky film, which also likes to hide between the teeth and below the gumline, one should use dental floss (yes, I know, no one like this..)

It is individual, so it is difficult to give you a perfect advice like this. However, if your daily habits are good, and if you are able to remove all the soft PLAQUE from your teeth, and if you do not have any bleeding, you should be doing a good job. A good test, is to check, if your gums bleed, when FLOSSING...if they do, increase your flossing to a daily habit. IF they do not stop, you should see a Dental Hygienist.

Remember, there are two things; teeth and gingiva (gums) Although one thinks of going to the dentist for the teeth, the gingiva is ultimately more important. The teeth can be repaired, but without healthy gums and bone, even the best of teeth will eventually FALL OUT!! (periodontitis)

If you are like most people, it is difficult to be perfect, thus the sticky and soft PLAQUE turns hard and forms CALCULUS (no, not math) on your teeth. This hard substance wedges between your gums and teeth and causes inflammation....It should be removed on a regular basis, depending upon the severity of the problem. Most adults, need a cleaning every 6 months, although very clean ones can wait up to 1 year. The patients with gum problems, or health problems, may need cleanings quite frequently (sometimes every 6 weeks!) This should be individualized.

In any case, if you want to save your teeth and save your money, there are three points of advice, which I can give you;
1. Good daily hygiene
2. Regular professional preventive care
3. Healthy lifestyle choices (no smoking...sorry...)

Gosh, did I answer you questions? OH dear....may have been more than you wanted...
Susan
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Old 17.04.2010, 14:30
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Re: Fraud at your dentist..."PA" or "DH"...???

Thanks but was looking for non OralB advice Some dentists/hygienists told me not to use it as it wears the enamel down. It's always difficult to know which side is bull shitting. Conflict of interest and all that from both sides.

I just wanted to know what our American hygienist would say
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Old 17.04.2010, 14:33
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Re: Fraud at your dentist..."PA" or "DH"...???

Hi Tititita
Indeed, you and I are "juniors" and learning about English Forum....

Since I have worked in five countries, my observations and personal philosophy of care are a result of 30 years. In every country, there are good and less good, professionals. My only intention, is to bring this issue of "PA" and "DH" to the general public. I believe the patients deserve to know the truth. This is not about nationality. Sorry, if I made it sound this way...

Wishing you better dental experiences...
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Old 17.04.2010, 14:34
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Re: Fraud at your dentist..."PA" or "DH"...???

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Gosh, did I answer you questions? OH dear....may have been more than you wanted...
Susan
You sound like a good hygienist and a good person Thanks for that post.
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Old 17.04.2010, 14:42
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Re: Fraud at your dentist..."PA" or "DH"...???

Hi Scribble,
Indeed, abrasion and erosion is a big problem today. Many patients suffer from gum-line recession and erosion of the enamel. I personally try to advise the patient about the use of power brushes individually. If you have doubts about your efficacy of your electric device, concerning Plaque removal, buy disclosing tablets at the pharmacy (little blue tablets...called "einfarbung"?? tablets). Brush, as you usually do, then chew up one of these little tablets, until dissolved. Then, look at your teeth. Do you still have blue or pink areas visible? Then, your brushing was not good.

If you have problems with abrasion, I would not recommend a rotating head brush. The sonic brushes are better, in this case. Always use a soft brush, even if they are electric.

Your idea to rotate between a hand brush and electric is very good. It is also a good idea to do this with tooth-pastes.

Now have I answered your questions? Glad to do so...
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Old 03.06.2012, 09:17
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Re: Fraud at your dentist..."PA" or "DH"...???

Hi EF friends,
I would like to resurface this posting, as I am alarmed by the number of dentists electing to hire "PAs" over "DHs". Perhaps it is a sign of the times, but this effort to save money (for the dentist) is definitely not saving money for the patient.

Recommendation: ASK UPFRONT, BEFORE THE APPOINTMENT . Even healthy patients deserve to be treated by a professional. Accept nothing less.
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Old 03.06.2012, 11:29
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Re: Fraud at your dentist..."PA" or "DH"...???

Regarding flossing - I used to get bleeding all the time. My dentist recommended interstitial brushes (with the curious brand name Curaprox) instead. I've been using them for three years now. The bleeding stopped within a few weeks and my regular professional teeth cleaning (with a proper DH) doesn't take as longs as it used to. I also find them far more pleasant to use than floss. I think this smiley is very appropriate:

For those wanting a recommendation though - my dentist does not speak English.
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Old 05.06.2012, 15:22
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Re: Fraud at your dentist..."PA" or "DH"...???

Had a wonderful tooth clean at Susanīs in Zuri last sunday.
Drove all the way from Basel, where there are lots of hygienists.
But none like Susan.
She is very gentle andy explains what she is doing.
My teeth were beautiful afterwards
And I should know!
I am dentist myself!
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Old 05.06.2012, 15:55
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Re: Fraud at your dentist..."PA" or "DH"...???

for those of us that don't like flossing another option is the phillips sonicare air floss I started using it earlier this and at my last check up my dentist commented on my gum health something he has never done before, after a brief discussion we came to the conclusion that using air floss on a regular basis with the occasional use of regular floss was probably a good regimen.
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Old 07.06.2012, 22:31
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Re: Fraud at your dentist..."PA" or "DH"...???

Thanks, Garry. It is a bit nerve racking to clean the teeth of a dental colleague, but I was delighted to meet you and to know about all your experiences as a dentist.

Good luck with your upcoming practice, in BASEL....you shall certainly be well appreciated and welcomed, as an English speaking dentist, with expertise from Sweden in implantology. Well done, you!



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Had a wonderful tooth clean at Susanīs in Zuri last sunday.
Drove all the way from Basel, where there are lots of hygienists.
But none like Susan.
She is very gentle andy explains what she is doing.
My teeth were beautiful afterwards
And I should know!
I am dentist myself!
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Old 21.06.2012, 11:51
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Re: Fraud at your dentist..."PA" or "DH"...???

Thanks a lot Susan

My wife feels so much better after her gum bleeding problems were fixed, thank you for explaining the process and keeping her at ease.
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Old 20.07.2012, 10:30
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Re: Fraud at your dentist..."PA" or "DH"...???

My pleasure Ankur. Just remember, keeping your gums healthy is a lifetime endeavor, and a balance between your personal hygiene habits, and regular professional treatment. It is best to not wait until you have pain or bleeding, for next treatment. All the best.

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Thanks a lot Susan

My wife feels so much better after her gum bleeding problems were fixed, thank you for explaining the process and keeping her at ease.
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Old 20.07.2012, 10:33
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Re: Fraud at your dentist..."PA" or "DH"...???

We had our teeth cleaned by a dental hygienist a few weeks ago, and it's so great
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