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  #341  
Old 03.07.2015, 10:14
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Re: Avoiding Vaccination?

This is a classic example of how herd or community immunity could have helped. We don't know the medical history, but the woman was on immunosuppressant medication (perhaps with her medical condition, she wasn't able to be vaccinated). She evidently caught the measles from another patient. With either having a vaccination the chain could have been broken. It is indeed tragic.

Last edited by Tacitus; 03.07.2015 at 10:15. Reason: rephrased.
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  #342  
Old 03.07.2015, 10:23
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Re: Avoiding Vaccination?

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Compare vaccinated and non-vaccinated children. Test the vaccines as they are given in the schedule. When there is a risk there should be a choice
Can you quantify that, please so we know where you are on the [redacted] scale?

Is it:

1 in 100?
1 in 1000?
1 in 100 000?
1 in 1000 000?

Have you compared this with the risks for death and life-changing impairment for babies and children who have caught a disease from an person who has not been vaccinated?

Last edited by Ace1; 03.07.2015 at 10:32. Reason: C'mon, no need for the "nutter" insult.
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  #343  
Old 03.07.2015, 13:57
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Re: Avoiding Vaccination?

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When facing these anti vaccination people one has to ask them:
How many people died from preventable diseases in the last century?
How many people died after taking vaccinations in the last century?
All of them.
Not yet.
Quite. The vast majority of us on here were vaccinated in the last century and we're not dead yet
Hardly all, as I'm not dead yet!
Maybe, but I can predict that you will all die. Just a matter of time, innit?

So there you go, vaccines don't save all lives and all people who are vaccinated die (at some point... eventually...).

Read what you will into that... after all the anti-vaxers do...

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  #344  
Old 03.07.2015, 14:05
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Re: Avoiding Vaccination?

More sad news, the Spanish 6-year-old whose parents refused the diphtheria vaccine eventually succumbed to the disease.
http://spanishnewstoday.com/six_year...l#.VZZ5vmccFaQ
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  #345  
Old 03.07.2015, 14:42
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Re: Avoiding Vaccination?

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This issue behind this bill goes way beyond parents choosing to vaccinate or not, it's about informed consent (the backbone of medical ethics) and parental control. When you no longer have a say on what the government mandates healthwise something is very very wrong.

It's a lobbyist money game which has now denied many children the right to go to school, a legal right in the state of California. A child infected with HepB can go to school but a child who wasn't vaccinated can't? Does that really make sense?
The bill is only for religious etc grounds. Not medical grounds. If your child can not be vaccinated for medical reasons they can still go to school. The government just want to make sure that herd immunity is high enough that this does not result in these children being at a high risk of exposure. It's still a right to not vaccinate your child you you don't want to, it's just not your right to expose other peoples children to disease.
think of it like guns. Sure, you have a right to have a gun, but not to take that gun into a school. Sure, you have the right to risk your child's health and life by not protecting them against harmful diseases, but you are not allowed to take that gun into schools either.
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  #346  
Old 03.07.2015, 16:38
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Re: Avoiding Vaccination?

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The bill is only for religious etc grounds. Not medical grounds. If your child can not be vaccinated for medical reasons they can still go to school. The government just want to make sure that herd immunity is high enough that this does not result in these children being at a high risk of exposure. It's still a right to not vaccinate your child you you don't want to, it's just not your right to expose other peoples children to disease.
think of it like guns. Sure, you have a right to have a gun, but not to take that gun into a school. Sure, you have the right to risk your child's health and life by not protecting them against harmful diseases, but you are not allowed to take that gun into schools either.
I can just imagine a bunch of unscrupulous CA doctors (Bob Sears etc) are rubbing their hands in glee, waiting to charge ignorant parents exorbitant sums to write bogus medical exemption certificates.
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  #347  
Old 03.07.2015, 16:43
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Re: Avoiding Vaccination?

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I can just imagine a bunch of unscrupulous CA doctors (Bob Sears etc) are rubbing their hands in glee, waiting to charge ignorant parents exorbitant sums to write bogus medical exemption certificates.
Quote:
SEC. 5.

Section 120370 of the Health and Safety Code is amended to read:
120370.

(a) If the parent or guardian files with the governing authority a written statement by a licensed physician to the effect that the physical condition of the child is such, or medical circumstances relating to the child are such, that immunization is not considered safe, indicating the specific nature and probable duration of the medical condition or circumstances, including, but not limited to, family medical history, for which the physician does not recommend immunization, that child shall be exempt from the requirements of Chapter 1 (commencing with Section 120325, but excluding Section 120380) and Sections 120400, 120405, 120410, and 120415 to the extent indicated by the physician’s statement.
(b) If there is good cause to believe that a child has been exposed to a disease listed in subdivision (b) of Section 120335 and his or her documentary proof of immunization status does not show proof of immunization against that disease, that child may be temporarily excluded from the school or institution until the local health officer is satisfied that the child is no longer at risk of developing or transmitting the disease.
They have to explain why, with details.
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  #348  
Old 17.09.2015, 13:56
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Re: Avoiding Vaccination?

Donald Trump says vaccinations are causing an autism 'epidemic'

Here

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The property developer and TV personality said he had evidence of a relationship between autism and vaccinations after seeing an employee’s child diagnosed with the disability following an adverse reaction to a vaccine.
Go USA!
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  #349  
Old 17.09.2015, 14:02
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Re: Avoiding Vaccination?

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Donald Trump says vaccinations are causing an autism 'epidemic'

Here



Go USA!
Mmmm. A sample size of one. I think Mr Trump needs to go back to school to learn a bit more about statistics.
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  #350  
Old 17.09.2015, 14:54
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Re: Avoiding Vaccination?

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Mmmm. A sample size of one. I think Mr Trump needs to go back to school to learn a bit more about statistics.
Donald trump is harmless - unless he gets into power.
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  #351  
Old 17.09.2015, 16:00
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Re: Avoiding Vaccination?

Hi all

I wanted to give my baby BCG vaccination as per the rules in india. But here doctor said they are not allowed to give. Few of them are here exception like rotavirus vaccination, bcg vaccination and some others. Do you people know why so much of variation from one country to other?
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  #352  
Old 17.09.2015, 16:06
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Re: Avoiding Vaccination?

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Donald Trump says vaccinations are causing an autism 'epidemic'

Here



Go USA!
Presumably that's the University of Google that Jenny McCarthy got all her "conclusive learning" from. She should be more worried about braincell count than autism...
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  #353  
Old 17.09.2015, 16:20
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Re: Avoiding Vaccination?

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Hi all

I wanted to give my baby BCG vaccination as per the rules in india. But here doctor said they are not allowed to give. Few of them are here exception like rotavirus vaccination, bcg vaccination and some others. Do you people know why so much of variation from one country to other?
TB is no longer a significant risk in Switzerland, so the vaccination is not given.

If you are travelling to India it may make sense, but then it would be treated as a holiday vaccination not part of the regular schedule.
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  #354  
Old 17.09.2015, 16:32
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Re: Avoiding Vaccination?

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TB is no longer a significant risk in Switzerland, so the vaccination is not given.

If you are travelling to India it may make sense, but then it would be treated as a holiday vaccination not part of the regular schedule.
Exactly, and that's the reason for the variation in vaccination schedules between countries. You won't see babies in Switzerland being vaccinated against cholera or Ross River Fever* either.








*I have no idea if vaccinations exist for this, but you catch my drift.
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  #355  
Old 17.09.2015, 16:42
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Re: Avoiding Vaccination?

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I hate this "I'm parent, I know what's best for my child" mantra. Actually, you don't; healthcare professionals and scientists know what's best for your child..
I'm not agianst vax per se. I like to consider this stuff on a case by case and situation by situation basis. But this type of reasoning exposes the ugliest side of the pro vax movement. Are we to outsource all important decisons to government experts? Have governments never made mistakes?

Why is it that if the government thinks people are too thick to take decisons regarding their health and that of their children, that the same government still considers tham capable of voting? Either people's opinions count or they don't. You can't have it both ways.

By all means engage with anti vaxxers, expose them, confront them. But the moment you say, the jackboot of the government needs to force people you've lost the plot and claiming this is "science" is just clutching at straws.
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  #356  
Old 17.09.2015, 16:42
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Re: Avoiding Vaccination?

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Donald Trump says vaccinations are causing an autism 'epidemic'

Here

Go USA!
What Don said:
Quote:
Autism has become an epidemic. 25 years ago, 35 years ago, you look at the statistics, it’s not even close. It has gotten totally out of control.

What Don meant:
Quote:
25, 35 years ago, doctors didn't know much about autism. There were lots of weird kids, but not too many people thought to call them "autistic". Nowadays, it's commonplace to diagnose autism. What's happened in the last 35 years is that the rate of diagnosis of autism has shot up, due to greater knowledge and understanding of the condition (and probably a loosening of the definition of autism).
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  #357  
Old 17.09.2015, 16:46
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Re: Avoiding Vaccination?

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Why is it that if the government thinks people are too thick to take decisons regarding their health and that of their children, that the same government still considers tham capable of voting? Either people's opinions count or they don't. You can't have it both ways.
Isn't the logical corollary that (some) governments do trust the people sufficiently to allow them to vote to elect people to make decisions on important topics, on their behalf -- and that if they don't like those decisions, they can vote the government back out again?
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  #358  
Old 17.09.2015, 16:52
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Re: Avoiding Vaccination?

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Isn't the logical corollary that (some) governments do trust the people sufficiently to allow them to vote to elect people to make decisions on important topics, on their behalf -- and that if they don't like those decisions, they can vote the government back out again?
There may be dozens of reasons to vote for or against any candidate, but opinions on vaxxing rarely make it very high in that list, or even get discussed during the election cycle.

The premise that because you elected us we can do as we like is maybe something Mugabe would agree with.
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  #359  
Old 17.09.2015, 16:53
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Re: Avoiding Vaccination?

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Why is it that if the government thinks people are too thick to take decisions regarding their health and that of their children, that the same government still considers them capable of voting? Either people's opinions count or they don't. You can't have it both ways.

Because it would appear that many of them are.

As I wrote on another thread - direct democracy tends to fall down on health care issues ( and probably a few others too).
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Old 17.09.2015, 17:10
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Re: Avoiding Vaccination?

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There may be dozens of reasons to vote for or against any candidate, but opinions on vaxxing rarely make it very high in that list, or even get discussed during the election cycle.

The premise that because you elected us we can do as we like is maybe something Mugabe would agree with.
Unfortunately, elected officials tend to believe they have a mandate... because they do. Only it's not as wide a mandate as some think.
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