Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Help & tips > Family matters/health  
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 05.06.2007, 04:52
Newbie 1st class
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Canada
Posts: 23
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Nobles has no particular reputation at present
Avoiding Vaccination?

Hi,

I currently live in Canada with my Wife and 10 month old baby. Vaccinations are mandatory and required in Canada as in many other countries, however if you do not wish to vaccinate your kids you can fill out Government forms that will exempt you and still be able to put your kids in public schools.

Anyone know any information regarding this Policy in Switzerland and if it varies in each Canton then which Cantons allow exemption?

many thanks.
  #2  
Old 05.06.2007, 08:18
Termite's Avatar
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Basel
Posts: 77
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Termite has no particular reputation at present
Re: Avoiding Vaccination?

Hi,

Switzerland generally has a low vaccination rate, especially in some locations. We received a survey from the BL Cantonal medical officer asking about our children's vaccination programme. I phoned him as they had been vaccinated in the UK. Apparently there is concern at the low vaccination rate, especially for measles. Apparently Solothurn has a low immunisation rate.

By implication, I don't think you need to be vaccinated to attend local schools, but it is certainly encouraged.
  #3  
Old 05.06.2007, 08:32
dawiz's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Ostschweiz
Posts: 4,112
Groaned at 96 Times in 46 Posts
Thanked 2,050 Times in 1,191 Posts
dawiz has a reputation beyond reputedawiz has a reputation beyond reputedawiz has a reputation beyond reputedawiz has a reputation beyond reputedawiz has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Avoiding Vaccination?

Quote:
View Post
I currently live in Canada with my Wife and 10 month old baby. Vaccinations are mandatory and required in Canada as in many other countries, however if you do not wish to vaccinate your kids you can fill out Government forms that will exempt you and still be able to put your kids in public schools.

Anyone know any information regarding this Policy in Switzerland and if it varies in each Canton then which Cantons allow exemption?

many thanks.

I've never heard of a general vaccination requirement in Switzerland. When I was in primary school, our whole class was supposed to go to the Schularzt (school doctor) to get examined and vaccinated. However, if the parents didn't want their children to go, they didn't have to.

There is a vaccination requirement for the Army, though.

dawiz
  #4  
Old 05.06.2007, 08:45
Flashman4's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Haegendorf
Posts: 836
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 455 Times in 259 Posts
Flashman4 has an excellent reputationFlashman4 has an excellent reputationFlashman4 has an excellent reputationFlashman4 has an excellent reputation
Re: Avoiding Vaccination?

Three months ago I received a letter from my son's school with a tick box containing lots of different vaccinations.

I was asked simply to tick which ones I wished him to have. There were about 10 - 12 different ones!!

Last edited by Flashman4; 05.06.2007 at 23:08. Reason: replaced one of the 10's with the correct number
  #5  
Old 05.06.2007, 08:45
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Avoiding Vaccination?

Vaccinations are not mandatory anymore!You are free to decide what you want to do in regards to your child.

As a parent when registering with your new Pediatrist, you will get a leaflet with so called 'Impfempfehlungen' ( recommendations about vaccination)

Sadly because some ppl thought,we have got rid of them childhood illnesses in Switzerland and because of some not so well funded scares (IMVHO) in connection with vaccinations,many children are NOT vaccinated anymore.
Ppl tend to forget that with the global village the world has become,the illnesses can be 'picked' up when in holidays and brought back to Switzerland.

This explains why there are often local outbreaks of one or the other of them childhood illnesses( I don't mean chickenpox here),and because the children are not vaccinated anymore, they then get the full blast of the illness!

But this is just my very personal opinion,because I used to work for many years in a health profession and that formed my opnion.

This is the only Federal governement site, I have found in english, about vaccinations in Switzerland.
If you understand french , then you can get more info on that site by choosing that language.

http://www.bag.admin.ch/themen/mediz...x.html?lang=en


My children are all vaccinated and so far none has had any troubles in connection with the injections.

''off my soapbox'' now
This user would like to thank for this useful post:
  #6  
Old 05.06.2007, 10:57
Nathu's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Zürich
Posts: 4,521
Groaned at 18 Times in 16 Posts
Thanked 2,208 Times in 1,248 Posts
Nathu has a reputation beyond reputeNathu has a reputation beyond reputeNathu has a reputation beyond reputeNathu has a reputation beyond reputeNathu has a reputation beyond reputeNathu has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Avoiding Vaccination?

Quote:
View Post
This explains why there are often local outbreaks of one or the other of them childhood illnesses( I don't mean chickenpox here),and because the children are not vaccinated anymore, they then get the full blast of the illness!

But this is just my very personal opinion,because I used to work for many years in a health profession and that formed my opnion.
It's a well-documented fact the herd immunity of measles is going down the drain and other children's diseases may follow. Too many parents are uninformed nowadays or think that their kid deserves a free ride. A relative of mine works at a school and she says that there's rarely an inspection where all the pupils of a class go to the school doctor.

In my opinion one should individually decide which vaccinations to take, but I can't understand general denial.

Ok, rant part over. Vaccinations aren't obligatory, with a few cantonal exceptions (according to this German website)

Tetanus: Freiburg
Diphtheria: Freiburg, Geneva, Neuchâtel, Ticino

The official national recommendation includes the following vaccinations:
Tetanus
Diphtheria
Polio
Pertussis
Haemophilus Influenzae (can cause meningitis)
Also: Measles-mumps-roseola and under certain circumstances Hepatitis B

I'm part of the medical troops and got free Di-Te, Polio and Hep B shots in the army, yay!

Last edited by Nathu; 05.06.2007 at 12:08.
  #7  
Old 05.06.2007, 11:57
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Avoiding Vaccination?

Hmm this is why TB is coming back into the UK.

All should be compulsory.

My two pennies worth anyway....

(Yes I did have the MMR when I was little, you're more likely to be hit by a bus than have problems.)
  #8  
Old 05.06.2007, 12:15
dawiz's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Ostschweiz
Posts: 4,112
Groaned at 96 Times in 46 Posts
Thanked 2,050 Times in 1,191 Posts
dawiz has a reputation beyond reputedawiz has a reputation beyond reputedawiz has a reputation beyond reputedawiz has a reputation beyond reputedawiz has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Avoiding Vaccination?

Quote:
View Post
Hmm this is why TB is coming back into the UK.

All should be compulsory.

My two pennies worth anyway....

(Yes I did have the MMR when I was little, you're more likely to be hit by a bus than have problems.)
a teacher in St. Gallen recently died of TB. Also, there have been several cases of Polio in Switzerland last year - all of which were "imported" from India I believe - but still - not getting your Polio shot (actually, a shot isn't even required - the vaccination can be administered orally) is just careless IMHO.

dawiz
  #9  
Old 04.03.2008, 21:56
Sutter's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Thurgau
Posts: 5,799
Groaned at 68 Times in 48 Posts
Thanked 2,824 Times in 1,605 Posts
Sutter has a reputation beyond reputeSutter has a reputation beyond reputeSutter has a reputation beyond reputeSutter has a reputation beyond reputeSutter has a reputation beyond reputeSutter has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Avoiding Vaccination?

Anybody think we should start a new thread about ticks?
  #10  
Old 04.03.2008, 23:38
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Avoiding Vaccination?

One of the many reasons, that vaccinations are avoided or delayed, is due to the mercury compound, thimerosal, which is used as a vaccine preservative. This video shows the toxicity effects of mercury on neuron growth.

The video runs for 5 minutes. Below is an abstract of the research related to the video.



Retrograde degeneration of neurite membrane structural integrity of nerve growth cones following in vitro exposure to mercury.
Membrane And Cellular Biophysics And Biochemistry
Neuroreport. 12(4):733-737, March 26, 2001.
Leong, Christopher C. W.; Syed, Naweed I.; Lorscheider, Fritz L. CA

Abstract:
Inhalation of mercury vapor (Hg0) inhibits binding of GTP to rat brain tubulin, thereby inhibiting tubulin polymerization into microtubules. A similar molecular lesion has also been observed in 80% of brains from patients with Alzheimer disease (AD) compared to age-matched controls. However the precise site and mode of action of Hg ions remain illusive. Therefore, the present study examined whether Hg ions could affect membrane dynamics of neurite growth cone morphology and behavior. Since tubulin is a highly conserved cytoskeletal protein in both vertebrates and invertebrates, we hypothesized that growth cones from animal species could be highly susceptible to Hg ions. To test this possibility, the identified, large Pedal A (PeA) neurons from the central ring ganglia of the snail Lymnaea stagnalis were cultured for 48 h in 2 ml brain conditioned medium (CM). Following neurite outgrowth, metal chloride solution (2 [mu]l) of Hg, Al, Pb, Cd, or Mn (10-7 M) was pressure applied directly onto individual growth cones. Time-lapse images with inverted microscopy were acquired prior to, during, and after the metal ion exposure. We demonstrate that Hg ions markedly disrupted membrane structure and linear growth rates of imaged neurites in 77% of all nerve growth cones. When growth cones were stained with antibodies specific for both tubulin and actin, it was the tubulin/microtubule structure that disintegrated following Hg exposure. Moreover, some denuded neurites were also observed to form neurofibrillary aggregates. In contrast, growth cone exposure to other metal ions did not effect growth cone morphology, nor was their motility rate compromised. To determine the growth suppressive effects of Hg ions on neuronal sprouting, cells were cultured either in the presence or absence of Hg ions. We found that in the presence of Hg ions, neuronal somata failed to sprout, whereas other metalic ions did not effect growth patterns of cultured PeA cells. We conclude that this visual evidence and previous biochemical data strongly implicate Hg as a potential etiological factor in neurodegeneration.

(C) 2001 Lippincott Williams & Wilkins, Inc.
  #11  
Old 05.03.2008, 09:08
Nathu's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Zürich
Posts: 4,521
Groaned at 18 Times in 16 Posts
Thanked 2,208 Times in 1,248 Posts
Nathu has a reputation beyond reputeNathu has a reputation beyond reputeNathu has a reputation beyond reputeNathu has a reputation beyond reputeNathu has a reputation beyond reputeNathu has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Avoiding Vaccination?

Quote:
View Post
One of the many reasons, that vaccinations are avoided or delayed, is due to the mercury compound, thimerosal, which is used as a vaccine preservative.
Studies conducted by the WHO, the US-American Institute of Medicine and the European Medicines Agency independently of each other couldn't link thiomersal containing vaccinations with Autism (Source #14; WHO statement).

The quantity of thiomersal in vacccinations is toxicologically inoffensive, and many vaccinations are available without thiomersal now.
This user would like to thank Nathu for this useful post:
  #12  
Old 05.03.2008, 13:22
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Avoiding Vaccination?

Quote:
View Post
One of the many reasons, that vaccinations are avoided or delayed, is due to the mercury compound, thimerosal, which is used as a vaccine preservative. This video shows the toxicity effects of mercury on neuron growth.

The video runs for 5 minutes. Below is an abstract of the research related to the video.

Retrograde degeneration of neurite membrane structural integrity of nerve growth cones following in vitro exposure to mercury.
Membrane And Cellular Biophysics And Biochemistry
Neuroreport. 12(4):733-737, March 26, 2001.
Leong, Christopher C. W.; Syed, Naweed I.; Lorscheider, Fritz L. CA

Abstract:
Inhalation of mercury vapor (Hg0) inhibits binding of GTP to rat brain tubulin, thereby inhibiting tubulin polymerization into microtubules. A similar molecular lesion has also been observed in 80% of brains from patients with Alzheimer disease (AD) compared to age-matched controls. However the precise site and mode of action of Hg ions remain illusive. Therefore, the present study examined whether Hg ions could affect membrane dynamics of neurite growth cone morphology and behavior. Since tubulin is a highly conserved cytoskeletal protein in both vertebrates and invertebrates, we hypothesized that growth cones from animal species could be highly susceptible to Hg ions. To test this possibility, the identified, large Pedal A (PeA) neurons from the central ring ganglia of the snail Lymnaea stagnalis were cultured for 48 h in 2 ml brain conditioned medium (CM). Following neurite outgrowth, metal chloride solution (2 [mu]l) of Hg, Al, Pb, Cd, or Mn (10-7 M) was pressure applied directly onto individual growth cones. Time-lapse images with inverted microscopy were acquired prior to, during, and after the metal ion exposure. We demonstrate that Hg ions markedly disrupted membrane structure and linear growth rates of imaged neurites in 77% of all nerve growth cones. When growth cones were stained with antibodies specific for both tubulin and actin, it was the tubulin/microtubule structure that disintegrated following Hg exposure. Moreover, some denuded neurites were also observed to form neurofibrillary aggregates. In contrast, growth cone exposure to other metal ions did not effect growth cone morphology, nor was their motility rate compromised. To determine the growth suppressive effects of Hg ions on neuronal sprouting, cells were cultured either in the presence or absence of Hg ions. We found that in the presence of Hg ions, neuronal somata failed to sprout, whereas other metalic ions did not effect growth patterns of cultured PeA cells. We conclude that this visual evidence and previous biochemical data strongly implicate Hg as a potential etiological factor in neurodegeneration.

(C) 2001 Lippincott Williams & Wilkins, Inc.
True, thimerosol is a mecury compound BUT it is an organomecurial (natural not manmade) and was used in low concentrations ( 0.0000000125g per 1 liter) in vaccine preps. The concentrations used in the "scientific study" presented are way over any dose one would realistically expect to get exposed to AND represent elemental mecury (Hg) which is far more toxic that organomecurials.

All new vaccine preps have either very reduced amounts of this compound or none at all due to the public fears of its toxicity.

Careful about using "science" to back up arguments if you're not a scientist . Classic example of selective arguments of "fact" to fit the laymans beliefs.
  #13  
Old 01.04.2008, 22:49
Kayser Soze's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Zurich
Posts: 153
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 44 Times in 32 Posts
Kayser Soze has no particular reputation at present
Measles cases in Switzerland / vaccination

Hi there,

My 2 year old son is attending day care (Kinderkrippe). Today when I went to pick him up there was a letter from the Minister of Health informing and warning about the current outburst of Measles in Switzerland:

In my son's Kinderkrippe, in the last 4 months there has been several cases of the following (I am getting the translations from Google):
- Schlarlach (Scarlatine Fever)
- Masern (Measles)
- Ringeröteln (couldn't find this one)
- Windpocken (Chicken Pox)

Anyhow, I remember chatting with my father about this (he is a Doctor), he was shocked and mentioned that some (cant remember which though) of these diseases are almost 'eradicated'.

Not taking his words for granted, I googled around for a while and read that in year 2005 the were 19 cases of Measles in America while 37332 in Europe. Comparing this in proportion of population I would say the difference is very big.

It seems that only 58% of the Swiss Population is vaccined against Measles for example, and is why its spreading so fast, and why there is a concern about it. I commented my findings with a Swiss guy at the office; to my surprise, he explained that vaccionation for several diseases in Switzerland is not typcial, like the case of Measles. When I asked him to elaborate why this? He proudly explained how much Swiss people avoid non-natural medicine ... huh ? I am wondering if this is another kind of 'shower once a week' kind of thing?

Comments?
This user would like to thank Kayser Soze for this useful post:
  #14  
Old 01.04.2008, 23:04
Sutter's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Thurgau
Posts: 5,799
Groaned at 68 Times in 48 Posts
Thanked 2,824 Times in 1,605 Posts
Sutter has a reputation beyond reputeSutter has a reputation beyond reputeSutter has a reputation beyond reputeSutter has a reputation beyond reputeSutter has a reputation beyond reputeSutter has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Measles cases in Switzerland / vaccination

My kids have had every vaccination so far as i do not want my kids to be at risk with these illnesses, i do know some swiss families that do not have the vaccinations they prefare natural medicine, because of this 1 little girl nearly died, and in the end she ended up in hospital for a very long time, and she will have to have regular hospital visits in the future. I for one would not like my kids to go to KG, or school with other children that have not had there vaccinations.
  #15  
Old 02.04.2008, 09:02
5AVeci
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Measles cases in Switzerland / vaccination

Quote:
View Post
My kids have had every vaccination so far as i do not want my kids to be at risk with these illnesses, i do know some swiss families that do not have the vaccinations they prefare natural medicine, because of this 1 little girl nearly died, and in the end she ended up in hospital for a very long time, and she will have to have regular hospital visits in the future. I for one would not like my kids to go to KG, or school with other children that have not had there vaccinations.
Natural medicine, something like: http://www.oregonlive.com/news/orego...210.xml&coll=7??

Sometimes I've got feeling that as civilisation advances people tend to get more stupid... It's like 13th century people using 21st century tools and still ignoring the progress that had been done in the 8 centuries...
  #16  
Old 01.04.2008, 23:05
Dani_SF's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Arlesheim/Basel
Posts: 159
Groaned at 1 Time in 1 Post
Thanked 49 Times in 30 Posts
Dani_SF has earned some respectDani_SF has earned some respect
Re: Measles cases in Switzerland / vaccination

Quote:
View Post
He proudly explained how much Swiss people avoid non-natural medicine ...
Shower once a week?

Scharlach, Roeteln and Masern are usually not vaccinated against, at least not when I was a kid.

I think he might have meant that if you get any of the above as a child, you're (naturally) vaccinated against any further outbreak. If I remember correctly especially Roeteln is dangerous when falling ill as an adult/when pregnant and doctors check if you have had it as a child.

Chicken pox is being vaccinated IIRC.
  #17  
Old 02.04.2008, 07:43
Zug bound's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Meisenberg Zug
Posts: 863
Groaned at 19 Times in 11 Posts
Thanked 284 Times in 182 Posts
Zug bound is considered knowledgeableZug bound is considered knowledgeableZug bound is considered knowledgeable
Re: Measles cases in Switzerland / vaccination

Could the ringer thingy be ringworm? I am sure that there are many people who would disagree with me, but our daughter has been vaccinated against everything we could. Birth brought hep b, tetanus, polio, TB and measles, as she got older she followed the Oman and Brit schedules, a move to thailand got her japanese encephalitis and rabies along with hep a. She hasn't shown any adverse reactions to anything - I was wavering with the MMR, but her paeditrician at the time reassured me (correctly as it seems) that the rise in autism didn't have any proven correlation with the introduction of that particular vaccine.
IMHO, if there is a way of stopping a disease, use it. Smallpox has been eradicated by the judicous use of a vaccine. Enough said.
__________________
The hand that rocks the cradle rules the world
Educate a woman, educate a nation
This user would like to thank Zug bound for this useful post:
  #18  
Old 02.04.2008, 08:46
Nev
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Measles cases in Switzerland / vaccination

Vaccination in CH was widely discussed here:
http://www.englishforum.ch/family-ma...ccination.html
  #19  
Old 02.04.2008, 09:32
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Kanton Luzern
Posts: 16,008
Groaned at 551 Times in 432 Posts
Thanked 23,700 Times in 9,578 Posts
Tom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Measles cases in Switzerland / vaccination

[quote=Dani_SF;199258]Shower once a week?

Scharlach, Roeteln and Masern are usually not vaccinated against, at least not when I was a kid.

quote]

You can't provide vaccination against scarlet fever (scharlach) - it's caused by a bacterial infection. It's treated with antibiotics.

My sister in-law is always getting pressure put on her by a Swiss friend not to treat her children with anything. One of her children had scarlet fever a couple of weeks ago. "I hope you're not giving him antibiotics !", was her friend's cry.
Luckily she was. My sister in law gets quite upset that her friend is putting this pressure on her. I would quite like to explain the other side of the argumen to her friend but I'm not allowed as it would be too confrontational.
  #20  
Old 02.04.2008, 14:11
Nathu's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Zürich
Posts: 4,521
Groaned at 18 Times in 16 Posts
Thanked 2,208 Times in 1,248 Posts
Nathu has a reputation beyond reputeNathu has a reputation beyond reputeNathu has a reputation beyond reputeNathu has a reputation beyond reputeNathu has a reputation beyond reputeNathu has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Measles cases in Switzerland / vaccination

Quote:
View Post
It seems that only 58% of the Swiss Population is vaccined against Measles for example
That's a mistranslation from your link. The actual vaccination rate is in the eighties but this is still too low.

For my opinion on the subject, you can follow Nev's link... If I was in the shoes of Tom1234's sister in law I'd not tolerate this pressure. I acknowledge that people sometimes wrongly use antibiotics (for viral diseases, or they stop taking them as soon as the symptoms are gone). But the benefits of antibiotics are huge.
 




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Wills in Switzerland: avoiding Pflichtteil (Obligatory apportionment) meloncollie Other/general 29 07.03.2013 14:14


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 11:23.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0