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Old 27.05.2010, 01:05
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Sun Safety

One thing the plethora of Irish blood from various sources in my family tree has bequeathed to me is very "burnable" skin.

When I was younger and lived in California, Texas and Hawaii, I used some sunscreen but most often the highest available was SPF 15. I wonder as the years go by whether I'll pay for this eventually.

Anyhow, I read this article with some interest... it is quite an overwhelming list of things "recommended" to help protect against the harmful rays from the sun.

This is what got to me the most as I really dislike the feel of many creams or lotion on my skin:

Quote:
For prolonged sun exposure, like when playing golf or tennis or spending time at the beach, use three layers of sun protection to get maximal effects:

>snip<


Each of these 3 layers provides an additional level of insurance against any UV rays that make it through the others. Chemical and physical sunscreens work differently, and you need both for maximum protection.
THREE layers of goo?!
Good grief!
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Old 27.05.2010, 02:14
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Re: Sun Safety

Well, I can't say your article reads as a 'scienfically researched' document...more like an advertisement

I've worked with lots of different sunscreen and cosmetic products in a development lab. I'd be reluctant to layer anything with anything, with the risk that some chemical from one layer reacts with another chemical from another layer, and your sunscreen fails and you end up fried...

We Aussies reckon we have a fairly good idea about sun...and being 'sun smart'...and the source for public info is the cancer council...a non profit organisation...

http://www.cancer.org.au/cancersmart...e/SunSmart.htm

Hope that reassures you...

Some slogans include - 'between 11 and 3, sit under a tree' and 'slip, slop, slap and wrap' - slip on a shirt, slop on sunscreen, slap on a hat, and wrap on some sunglasses...
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Old 27.05.2010, 06:09
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Re: Sun Safety

In Australia the highest available sunscreen got SPF 60, i bought SPF 30
it is pretty good for switzerland (was not expensive)
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Old 27.05.2010, 06:15
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Re: Sun Safety

Safest solution is to keep your body out of exposure of the sun.

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Old 27.05.2010, 08:45
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Re: Sun Safety

Try Daylong extreme from Spirig. SPF50+. Odourless a bit thick and, being Swiss, totally unaffordable, but very good. Great on/in the open water
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Old 27.05.2010, 08:54
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Re: Sun Safety

I would also recommend Daylong. I used this for my children when they were small when we were travelling in Australia. Back then, only Daylong 16 was available, but we applied first thing in the morning, every morning and never had a sunburn.
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Old 27.05.2010, 09:00
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Re: Sun Safety

Amazing that we have lived as long as we do.

If you are slathering that many chemicals on your body, then you will have worse problems than the slightly increased risk of skin problems due to a little sun exposure. Don't forget that all of the things that are recommended are actually chemicals and they have their own interactions with your body and environment as well as most of the intermediate breakdown products of most sunscreens are actually carcinogenic.

However if you are looking for a fairly non-toxic and very effective sunblock that stays on in water and sweat then try BullFrog brand. I have found it to be very effective, doesn't have a lot of volatile compounds in it, doesn't feel sticky and smells completely neutral. This also means that if you smear it into a mucous membrane like the nose, eyes, etc. it doesn't tend to be painful. Works very well and lasts all day, excepting physical abrasion.
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Old 27.05.2010, 09:37
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Re: Sun Safety

My son has surgery scars on is face and the doctors advised me to use a high factor block on the scars for the next five years. Apparently scars are more prone to damage by the sun and I managed to get a tiny bottle of 130 SPF. This is very thin and so easy to apply and we only use it on his scars (including a magical Harry Potter Scar on his forehead!) as it is so expensive. I have often wondered why they can get this protection so thin but not the higher factor normal lotions with generally get thicker the higher the factor!

On a different note was saddened to read this article - Surely common sense wasn't on the agenda!

http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/UK-...=searchresults
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Old 27.05.2010, 09:42
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Re: Sun Safety

I've often wondered about Daylong and the fact that this product employs nanotechnology meaning that it is actually absorbed into the body via the skin rather than just creating a physical block. Does anyone know what potential harm the absorption of this gunk into our bodies causes apart from the sun protection it offers?
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Old 27.05.2010, 10:17
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Re: Sun Safety

Banana Boat now do a clear spray (Ultra, I think it's called) that goes up to SPF 50 and is waterproof. Don't need anything that strong in CH but it's superb when sailing in the Med (I hate goo too). Don't think you can get it here but there should be plenty of mail order cos that will ship it here
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Old 27.05.2010, 10:37
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Re: Sun Safety

SPF is a relative measure
for example the sun in Australia is 2X brighter and more intense in Europe
so a SPF50 in Europe would not be a SPF in Australia
and seems like some countries have SPF rating "caps" in place

some (hopefully) helpful info from wikipedia on sunscreen:
Quote:
Owing to consumer confusion over the real degree and duration of protection offered, labeling restrictions are in force in several countries. In the EU sunscreen labels can only go up to SPF 50+ (actually indicating a SPF of 60 or higher)[16] while Australia's upper limit is 30+ [17]. The United States does not have mandatory, comprehensive sunscreen standards, although a draft rule has been under development since 1978. In the 2007 draft rule, Food and Drug Administration (FDA) proposed to institute the labelling of SPF 50+ for sunscreens offering more protection. This and other measures were proposed to limit unrealistic claims about the level of protection offered (such as "all day protection").[18]
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Old 27.05.2010, 10:55
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Re: Sun Safety

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In Australia the highest available sunscreen got SPF 60, i bought SPF 30
it is pretty good for switzerland (was not expensive)
Actually,there is no SPF 60 by Australian sunscreen standards. 30+ is as high as it goes.
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Old 27.05.2010, 11:00
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Re: Sun Safety

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I've often wondered about Daylong and the fact that this product employs nanotechnology meaning that it is actually absorbed into the body via the skin rather than just creating a physical block. Does anyone know what potential harm the absorption of this gunk into our bodies causes apart from the sun protection it offers?
I've often wondered how they managed to make a sun cream stink this aweful.
THAT keeps me away from ever spreading this stuff on my skin ever again!!
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Old 27.05.2010, 11:03
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Re: Sun Safety

Thanks PegA for opening this discussion. I was actually going to post a question on whether anyone knew which brands of sunscreens available in Switzerland were safe to use after I read this article yesterday.

Quote:
WASHINGTON (May 24) -- Almost half of the 500 most popular sunscreen products may actually increase the speed at which malignant cells develop and spread skin cancer because they contain vitamin A or its derivatives, according to an evaluation of those products released today.
WTF? There is a US based website with all the safe vs unsafe sunscreens listed. I was wondering if there was some info on which brands we should and shouldn't buy here based on the vitamin A problem mentioned in the article.
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Old 27.05.2010, 11:08
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Re: Sun Safety

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Thanks PegA for opening this discussion. I was actually going to post a question on whether anyone knew which brands of sunscreens available in Switzerland were safe to use after I read this article yesterday.



WTF? There is a US based website with all the safe vs unsafe sunscreens listed. I was wondering if there was some info on which brands we should and shouldn't buy here based on the vitamin A problem mentioned in the article.
The dangerous sunscreens are made using organic compounds that do absorb or block harmful rays. The problem is that when they absorb the light they break down into other compounds that are toxic and/or carcinogenic. So they work but you would be better off using long sleeve shirts and wearing a hat.

BTW, I just wanted to give the following advice.



Read the article in the previous post...

Oxybenzone is kind of obvious. I mean chemicals with this sort of name just don't even sound safe with regard to intermediate breakdown products and general carcinogenicity.
Retinyl palmitate is a fancy name for Vitamin A. I googled it and turns out it is in a very large number of products you are supposed to put on your skin. Yet, it seems to have many side effects. Most of them bad. The list includes, 20% increased likelihood of skin cancer, birth defect, etc.

Nice.
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Old 27.05.2010, 11:27
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Re: Sun Safety

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Banana Boat now do a clear spray (Ultra, I think it's called) that goes up to SPF 50 and is waterproof. Don't need anything that strong in CH but it's superb when sailing in the Med (I hate goo too). Don't think you can get it here but there should be plenty of mail order cos that will ship it here
Thanks, I just ordered some online
http://www.amazon.de/s?ie=UTF8&searc...=Banana%20Boat
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Old 27.05.2010, 11:27
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Re: Sun Safety

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Read the article in the previous post...

Oxybenzone is kind of obvious. I mean chemicals with this sort of name just don't even sound safe with regard to intermediate breakdown products and general carcinogenicity.
Retinyl palmitate is a fancy name for Vitamin A. I googled it and turns out it is in a very large number of products you are supposed to put on your skin. Yet, it seems to have many side effects. Most of them bad. The list includes, 20% increased likelihood of skin cancer, birth defect, etc.

Nice.
I appreciate the second part of your post.

Just want to ask the question again. Does anyone happen to know which brands are safe here in Switzerland? Otherwise it looks like I'll need to spend quite a bit of time reading labels at the pharmacy (and hoping I can decipher the scientific jargon).
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Old 27.05.2010, 11:32
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Re: Sun Safety

Having just returned home from having an atypical mole removed by my dermatologist this morning (and still waiting for the results of the biopsy) and having had a pre-cancerous growth removed 4 years ago, this thread caught my eye.

After years of living in tropical countries and spending lots of time in the sun, I wish that I would have followed the advice to protect my skin from the sun from an early age. Sun exposure is cumulative. My dermatologist used the analogy of a bucket Ė once your bucket is full, or once your body has had a certain amount of exposure, chances are that you will have skin problems. There isnít any going back and undoing the damage.

My dermatologist also said that many Swiss people get skin cancer because they quite often vacation in tropical countries and bake in the sun for two weeks. They also do lots of outdoor sports.

My dermatologistís advice, which I follow:

Use sun protection on your face every day. For me, she recommends La Roche-Posay 50+ Anthelios XL. They also make one that is 30SPF.

Protect yourself with clothes. If I know that Iím going to be in the sun, I wear a long sleeve shirt now. Yes, itís summer and I would really like to wear sleeveless shirts, but I save those for when I know that I wonít be exposing my skin to the sun. Some clothing companies (Columbia) make UV resistant clothing for hiking, etc.

See a dermatologist if you notice a suspicious growth on your skin. The latest advice for looking at your skin is that if you see an ďugly ducklingĒ mole, or one that doesnít look like the rest of your moles, have it looked at by a professional.

O.K. I'll get down off my soapbox now, but not before saying, "Please protect your skin! A lovely tan in the summer really isn't worth the angst that you may go through in later years."
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Old 27.05.2010, 11:34
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Re: Sun Safety

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I've often wondered about Daylong and the fact that this product employs nanotechnology meaning that it is actually absorbed into the body via the skin rather than just creating a physical block. Does anyone know what potential harm the absorption of this gunk into our bodies causes apart from the sun protection it offers?
My understanding is that virtually all sun-creams are hormonal. You get mechanical ones - for instance Weleda but they are the exception.
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Old 27.05.2010, 11:43
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Re: Sun Safety

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Sun exposure is cumulative. My dermatologist used the analogy of a bucket Ė once your bucket is full, or once your body has had a certain amount of exposure, chances are that you will have skin problems. There isnít any going back and undoing the damage.
I don't like the bucket analogy as it implies that their is a fixed or known point at which damage is inevitable. The problem is that damage is cumulative as you said, but it is damage as the cellular and chromosomal level. The UV rays are actually damaging your cells and mutating various bits. If the mutation is fatal then the cell dies and you have no problems. If the mutation is not fatal then it may pass on to the next generation of skin cells. Eventually this can lead to the cells becoming cancerous.

The issue for the medical establishment is that there is not fixed milestone at which damage is problematic. Some people are less prone to genetic damage problems and others are more prone to said damage.

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My dermatologist also said that many Swiss people get skin cancer because they quite often vacation in tropical countries and bake in the sun for two weeks. They also do lots of outdoor sports.
I thought it was also because quite a lot of CH country tends to be at higher altitude and there is less protective atmosphere than at lower altitudes.
Plus, if the air is cooler one tends to ignore the burning effects in the short term.
At least this is true for me.

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My dermatologistís advice, which I follow:

Protect yourself with clothes. If I know that Iím going to be in the sun, I wear a long sleeve shirt now. Yes, itís summer and I would really like to wear sleeveless shirts, but I save those for when I know that I wonít be exposing my skin to the sun. Some clothing companies (Columbia) make UV resistant clothing for hiking, etc.
When I went to India I was able to buy natural fiber long sleeve shirts like the locals wear that are very comfortable and stylish. They are good for blocking the sun and yet are not uncomfortable and breathe well, even when wet from rain or damp from sweat. Plus, light colors reflect the suns heat and I end up being more comfortable.
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