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  #41  
Old 08.09.2010, 18:42
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Re: Children hitting each other.

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If he doesn't want to hurt, he should know how to defend himself, thats the main purpose of Judo.
Incorrect. Judo is a sport based on martial arts (derived from jiu jitsu) and not a system of self defence - although training in Judo would help the individual to gain a certain amount of self confidence. On its own, Judo does not provide techniques for dealing with the different kinds of attack - punch, kick, grab by the lapels etc.

For such situations, systems such as Aikido, Jiu Jitsu, Tae Kwondo, Karate will be more practical - nonetheless any martial art requires a lot of dedication before you become proficient.

In answer the the OP, the correct way to deal with bullies is to raise it with the school or the parents of the children doing the hitting - and to make it clear that you are not going to go away until the matter is dealt with satisfactorily. That is the civilised way of dealing with such confrontations.

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Nick
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Old 08.09.2010, 18:45
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Re: Children hitting each other.

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Reminds me of a piece of advice:

Avoid fighting whenever possible. But, if you have to, make it count: hit hard, hit first and run.
I thought it was: Avoid fighting whenever possible. But, if you have to, make it count: hit hard, hit first and and make sure he never gets up again.
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Old 08.09.2010, 18:45
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Re: Children hitting each other.

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Incorrect. Judo is a sport based on martial arts (derived from jiu jitsu) and not a system of self defence - although training in Judo would help the individual to gain a certain amount of self confidence. On its own, Judo does not provide techniques for dealing with the different kinds of attack - punch, kick, grab by the lapels etc.

For such situations, systems such as Aikido, Jiu Jitsu, Tae Kwondo, Karate will be more practical - nonetheless any martial art requires a lot of dedication before you become proficient.

In
Cheers,
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So much fail....

Judo is a Martial Sport. Way more effective that 3/4 (I trust mostly JJ) of the systems you mentioned. On other note Box is a sport. and is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay uber better than aikido.

Proficiency in any martial art is a matter of time. BUt there are martial arts who get you there faster and with more efficiency.



Judo throws are also pretty much made for CH as you must wear jackets most of the time. This could go on and on but seriously....

damn....

Last edited by Ouchboy; 08.09.2010 at 18:58.
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Old 08.09.2010, 18:45
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Re: Children hitting each other.

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Most Aikido is BS. By the time he gets to do something remotely useful He/she will have his own kids.
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Incorrect. Judo is a sport based on martial arts (derived from jiu jitsu) and not a system of self defence - although training in Judo would help the individual to gain a certain amount of self confidence. On its own, Judo does not provide techniques for dealing with the different kinds of attack - punch, kick, grab by the lapels etc.

For such situations, systems such as Aikido, Jiu Jitsu, Tae Kwondo, Karate will be more practical - nonetheless any martial art requires a lot of dedication before you become proficient.

In answer the the OP, the correct way to deal with bullies is to raise it with the school or the parents of the children doing the hitting - and to make it clear that you are not going to go away until the matter is dealt with satisfactorily. That is the civilised way of dealing with such confrontations.

Cheers,
Nick
I did Jiu Jitsu for many years and I believe in it, In fact, my daughter will have to do it (happy or not). Every woman should learn some form of self-defense.
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Old 13.09.2010, 00:04
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Re: Children hitting each other.

Hey Obone,

a bit off topic but your son would be so welcome to come play with mine - the sensitive type too.
And now I am kind of glad he's turning 4 too late to be in school already..

Good luck !!

ps come to think of it, I just corrected a 3 yr old girl who was pulling my 1.5 year old from a bench by his head. She wasn't impressed at all. Hmm.
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  #46  
Old 13.09.2010, 00:17
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Re: Children hitting each other.

If all else fails, get him one of these
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  #47  
Old 13.09.2010, 00:54
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Re: Children hitting each other.

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I thought it was: Avoid fighting whenever possible. But, if you have to, make it count: hit hard, hit first and and make sure he never gets up again.
That could be murder...he who fights and runs away, lives to fight another day.

Obone, in all seriousness, are you in Switzerland? If so, and maybe I'm wrong here, but I can't imagine there are 'rough' schools, not like we have back home. And at that young age, kids can't really hurt themselves too much. Particularly if he's as big as you say for his age.

My eldest in the youngest in his year, and one of the smallest, and is naturally subjected to bullying. I encouraged him to recognise these situations early and use his gift of the gab, and humour to diffuse them before they get physical. Only as an absolute last resort would I sanction the use of violence to protect himself, if he is backed into a corner he can't run away from or attract the attention of a teacher, for example.

The main thing, I think, is to keep them confident, as confident kids rarely get bullied. Ensure they talk to you and feel comfortable doing so regarding things that go on in the playground. If they think you are giving them good advice, they will be more than happy to volunteer stuff. On the odd occasion, when I have felt things have got a bit out of hand, for example when he was in tears in the morning due to the fact he didn't feel he could wear shorts without getting the mick taken by one particular kid, I had a word with the head teacher.

Kids, they're tougher than you think, you know
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  #48  
Old 13.09.2010, 01:14
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Re: Children hitting each other.

As a kid I was the target of much really bad bullying in South Africa and it was not nice. I was a small kid and not really physically co-ordinated. My father sat me down one day after the whole "hit them back if they hit you" thing had not been working at all because I am inherently not a person who feels that I can resort to violence unless it is the absolute last resort and said told me the following.

He said to me that this world is fulled with people that feel that they need to demonstrate that they are better than others because they are insecure. It is full of nasty idiots who know no better. He said that I would run into these people everwhere in life and no matter how I responded, the most important thing that I was going to have to figure out myself was how I was going to feel about it. His recommendation was that I should be able to feel that I was better than them because I did not feel that I have to victimise others (obviously put in a simpler manner) to feel like I was a good person.

That has really stayed with me all my life. The bullying continued to be bad and at one stage there were some pretty nasty situations. Eventually to make sure that I did not come to harm, my dad took me to a friend of his who was a hand to hand combat instructor in the special forces. He did not really have to teach me anything, his demonstrations and descriptions of what you should do to another person if you actually fear for your physical saftey were so horrifying, so final (and I mean fatal) that I would rather let somebody hit me, walk away, or just ignore any idiots like that than actually respond. He said that engaging in violence is like owning a gun. You don't bother getting invovled in pulling it out or using it unless you mean to get the end result which means killing the other person. Personally I did not see the point and after that, although people have since punched me in a bar or two or made threats, I always just walk away rather than get involved.

I guess my point is just to get the message across to your kids that people who think that they are proving anything except that they are massive twats by physical violence are not worth the effort of getting upset over, let alone having to open up the can of worms which is retaliation.
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  #49  
Old 13.09.2010, 02:22
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Re: Children hitting each other.

I'd pretty much go along with that. If you can walk away from a fight, it's not so bad.

Always nice to see bullies on their @r$e once in a while, however. Physically or metaphorically
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Old 13.09.2010, 09:13
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Re: Children hitting each other.

I've have two fairly sensitive little boys.

We've done all sorts of role playing in the past to help them work through situations where they are uncomfortable - first day at a new school (been through this too many times poor lads), how to meet new people, how to get your ideas across to other people, and how to stand your ground with bullies, etc.

Telling them to hit back is easy enough for you, but while it seems fairly intuitive, actually working through the situation in real life, for a sensitive child, can be quite a daunting/confusing task. So we'd have pretend altercations with his being the bully (helped me also to see how the situations played out at school) and me showing him how I'd react. Then we'd switch roles and he'd practice standing up for himself.

Give it a go - going through it a few times with you (where he knows he's safe and feels comfortable) may give him the confidence to stand up for himself at school too. Remember that standing up for yourself is often all that it takes, hitting's not always required.

When we moved here my youngest, more social, child had a hard time. He found the boys here a lot more rough and tumble than his old friends and for a few weeks he was uncomfortable about it. In addition I think the other boys in his class needed to test him out to see where he would fall in their pecking order. Fortunately he stood his ground without being abusive and ended up in the "don't mess with him" group without becoming one of the bullies himself.

I wish you and your sweet little boy the best of luck. xx~A
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  #51  
Old 14.09.2010, 11:11
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Re: Children hitting each other.

It actually got worst last week when my wife picked him up from kindergarten and he had cuts on his cheek and nose and a scratch going from his eye to his ear.. My wife was horrified yet calmly asked him what had happened. He explained that the boy has hit him in the face with a stick! My wife walked over to the teacher and asked her what had happened to his face. she was completely oblivious and hasn't even noticed as our son has not brought it to her attention! problem is he wont as he's not the crying type.

My wife basically laid it on think to the teacher saying that that we leave him for a morning in their care and you're telling me you've not noticed he's got cuts on his face? being a teacher herself in the UK of similar age children she said she was staggered she's not noticed, asked who's supervising them at play time, and that we will not tolerate this and she expects expect the school to deal with this quickly & appropriately.

At this point the mother and the son of the boy who's been doing all this happens to walk over and the teacher asked the boy if he knows what happened. the boy look rather sheepishly and hid behind mother!

My wife rang the teacher shortly after to discuss it further and she suspected it was this boy (so she must know he's a little toe-rag) and will be speaking to the mother this week


I've mentioned this to a few friends and they seem to think we've moved to the rough side of Adliswil – I didn’t think there was a rough side but since someone made that comment I am starting to notice quite a few oddballs!
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Old 14.09.2010, 11:22
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Re: Children hitting each other.

Actually, I don'y really know how supervision works here. When my daughter's class play outside, the teacher stays inside doing stuff.. she supervises them but not as much as they would in the UK with duties and stuff.. I don't know if being on gate duty before and after school for instance is on the teacher's job description here. So I'm sure , there are lots of things teachers won't see here ... In France for instance, passed the school gate, the school and staffare not responsible anymore....I don't think supervision duties on the playground, at the gates before and after school etc are part of the job description.
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Old 14.09.2010, 11:56
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Re: Children hitting each other.

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If all else fails, get him one of these
Guns!then very soon we will start having mafia gangs in schools! Please donot introduce this here in MY Switzerland! Switzerland is one of the best places to live!
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  #54  
Old 14.09.2010, 12:01
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Re: Children hitting each other.

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Old 14.09.2010, 12:03
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Re: Children hitting each other.

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Guns!then very soon we will start having mafia gangs in schools! Please donot introduce this here in MY Switzerland! Switzerland is one of the best places to live!
Yes, it is also one of the highest gun ownship countries in the world but don't worry they seem to be very mature about it.
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  #56  
Old 14.09.2010, 12:24
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Re: Children hitting each other.

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The teachers only talk about it nothing happens. I am a 6ft 2inch kiwi male with full beard and still get no respect from the school kids, they call me every name under the sun when I see them down the street.
I have no answers.
I got told he should fight back and he does daily but this doesnt help.
We live in a decent area and its not the foreign kids who are the problem its the swiss kids.
And dont think about talking to the parent/parents they will also yell and screm at you.
I know this wont help but Im glad Im not the only one that has this problem
I second the parental intervention, swift and short. I think there definitely are situations that kids need to solve by themselves but I have far too often witnessed (outside, at work, on train, etc) an absurdly violent behavior by teens and young kids, in the midst of witnessing adults, that it was obvious they are used to absolutely no repercussions. So, I'd equip your kid with fighting back techniques and a lot of confidence, and simultaneously, if something really ugly happends, stand up by him/her, write up an official warning, get a med report, copy parents, teacher, cops. We had an ugly situ at school, a kid got promptly expelled for good, accompanied by very cooperative cops, all the kids on best behavior ever since. I have also followed up with violence I have encountered at work myself. It is necessary. It does give a huge lessons to the ones who think they own the world and nothing ever happens to them. Institutions act quickly here, if things go the official route. You gota have confidence as a parent, though, too.

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So at what point should the grownups in charge intervene? There's a delicate balance between imposing civilized behavior and encouraging kids to learn to sort things out themselves. Different parents, different teachers - and yes, different cultures - will draw the line different places on this, but they are all trying to achieve the same balance.

It's important to remember that when teaching styles and expectations clash: step back, take a deep breath, and remind yourself to assume good faith. Swiss educators on the whole really are not incompetent nor are they malicious.
While we were always the softies and our kiddo the best behaved, one notices after a while, that teachers take it for being dumb, at times. Our intentions to install good behavior sometimes translates into becoming a push over, the kid waits and waits for turn while everyone cuts in front of her, takes her toys and pushes and hits her. While back home the pushy kids get the talk, here the kid that is seemingly unassertive gets the dirty look and pity smile. I would always assume good faith, and then you have to deal with having a kid in an environment not corresponding with your educational and parenting values. Theories are a good thing, but sometimes we gota get back to earth and help our child who is being punished for our lofty ideas.

So then I have my folks over and I hear form the kid's room, "pow pow, go for the nose, like this..you gota hit and run". I was about to faint, when I realized my dad theaching my child using the mean and pushy teddy bear, if she gets hit first, is probably right. He said he wanted to do it secretly since he knows my attitude but he has noticed how much more violent kids dare to be here, even in front of the kid's parents and others. I hate it, I so know I wouldn't have to do it at home where the principles gel with mine, but we are here. A lot more aggression, a lot less supervision, and, unfortunately, not all the local child care people are as competent, interested in fair play, ethics, installing good ways for the future. A lot of them might take quick measures to stop stuff going on for now but to be really interested in kid's development and some kind of layout for the future, naw. And to really embrace the cultural diversity concept, to put a stop to bullying a foreign kid, that is just starting to appear here now and only somewhere.
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Old 14.09.2010, 13:20
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Re: Children hitting each other.

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Incorrect. Judo is a sport based on martial arts (derived from jiu jitsu) and not a system of self defence - although training in Judo would help the individual to gain a certain amount of self confidence. On its own, Judo does not provide techniques for dealing with the different kinds of attack - punch, kick, grab by the lapels etc.
Judo doesn't provide techniques for dealing with being grabbed by lapels???? You are sorely incorrect, if someone grabs me by anything, even to this day, which is many years after my judo training stopped, I find it of incredible assistance. Also, most fights descend quickly to a grappel - judo provides the best training for dealing with everything after the first three seconds of a fight, where your kicks and punches may happen. As part of my judo training, we stepped outside the sport to deal with defensive techniques for kicks and punches, I assumed this was the norm, but maybe not. Best advise ever though was from my trainer - this was dealing with teenagers, not children - which was, if faced with a threatening situation, your first course of action should be to run away, as you do not know whether your attacker may be armed or not. For youngsters, who know who the threat is coming from, my view is that they should be able to take a stand and defend themselves, but thats easy for a grown up to say, not so easy for a smaller child to do when faced with a bigger one.
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Old 14.09.2010, 13:53
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Re: Children hitting each other.

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Judo doesn't provide techniques for dealing with being grabbed by lapels???? You are sorely incorrect, if someone grabs me by anything, even to this day, which is many years after my judo training stopped, I find it of incredible assistance. Also, most fights descend quickly to a grappel - judo provides the best training for dealing with everything after the first three seconds of a fight, where your kicks and punches may happen. As part of my judo training, we stepped outside the sport to deal with defensive techniques for kicks and punches, I assumed this was the norm, but maybe not. Best advise ever though was from my trainer - this was dealing with teenagers, not children - which was, if faced with a threatening situation, your first course of action should be to run away, as you do not know whether your attacker may be armed or not. For youngsters, who know who the threat is coming from, my view is that they should be able to take a stand and defend themselves, but thats easy for a grown up to say, not so easy for a smaller child to do when faced with a bigger one.
I approve this statement.

and add....



pick your throw... lol
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Old 03.11.2010, 14:39
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Re: Children hitting each other.

Here is the situation:

2.5 years old bullying smaller kids. He takes the toys away from other kids, try to force them to do something, scream in their face, push, pull, etc. If they eat, he'll take as much as possible in his hand and cover the plate with his free hand so other kids can't have some. Will take food away from their hands or try to force the food into their mouth....

The mom doesn't do much. She'll talk to him in every single time and tells him that is not ok and ask to apologise. He'll do it, say he is sorry and 5 second after something else happen...

I am holding myself to not tell the kid off when he does something. I just see one solution, stay away of this kid because my child is always in tears around him and have nightmares everytime she spends time with him.

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Old 03.11.2010, 15:21
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Re: Children hitting each other.

My son was in a pretty similar situation when he was small. Always the smallest and an easy target. I then made friends with a few of the other mothers who had boys in his class, all the mothers became friends and so did the boys. They were 5 boys, always playing together. The bullying stopped, because of the safety in numbers rule. My son has now grown up to be a pretty tolerant, streetwise (6 foot tall) man.
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