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  #101  
Old 20.10.2010, 12:16
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Re: Father Not wanting responsibility

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There has been a misunderstanding of this. I don't for a second mean don't choose as in sex without consent - christ no.

I meant in the case of genuine trickery - i.e. you don't realise your partner has gone off the pill - then becomes pregnant. In this situation the male has not chosen to have a child.

To be completely clear: it's aboslutely not about unconsensual sex.
Good to hear! I didn't want to jump to that conclusion, which is why I asked for the clarification.

In response to that then, I still believe that if you choose to put the onus on your partner for protection, you DID make the choice. If you are that concerned about it, you had better take steps yourself. We all know that no form of contraception is completely fool proof (even a vasectomy can very rarely reverse itself). If you don't want kids, there really is only one solution that is 100%...but it's not much fun.
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  #102  
Old 20.10.2010, 12:16
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Re: Father Not wanting responsibility

just for more debate: what do you think of giving men also the right to chose to have a child even if the woman doesn't e.g. if either parent elects to have the child, the woman is legally obliged to carry the child to term?
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  #103  
Old 20.10.2010, 12:20
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Re: Father Not wanting responsibility

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Ask their partner why they have done this and what is the next logical step for them.

i.e. sit down and discuss, which is the whole point of all the arguments anyway: its not a simple decision.
No, itīs not.

Being a woman - I canīt understand this action/trick, I really canīt.
Safe to say I would never ever do something like that, and I honestly loathe women who treat their child as a weapon against "a man's world" and have the kid in the first place just in order to "have a kid" and be a pathetic single mum afterwards fighting for her "rights".

But, in the end, that same kid isnīt to be blamed, is it?
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  #104  
Old 20.10.2010, 12:22
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Re: Father Not wanting responsibility

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just for more debate: what do you think of giving men also the right to chose to have a child even if the woman doesn't e.g. if either parent elects to have the child, the woman is legally obliged to carry the child to term?
I think - a whole different and even more complicated thread..
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  #105  
Old 20.10.2010, 12:22
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Re: Father Not wanting responsibility

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Good to hear! I didn't want to jump to that conclusion, which is why I asked for the clarification.

In response to that then, I still believe that if you choose to put the onus on your partner for protection, you DID make the choice. If you are that concerned about it, you had better take steps yourself. We all know that no form of contraception is completely fool proof (even a vasectomy can very rarely reverse itself). If you don't want kids, there really is only one solution that is 100%...but it's not much fun.
Yes I accept this - if you don't want children it's down to you to make sure you know what your doing and fully agree the male should pay when this occurrs. But there is deception in some cases - for example the practice of using childbirth to get a council house in the UK. In such situations, where the female is the deceiver, do you still unilaterally point at the male and say "now you've gone and done it, buster - pay up for the next 20 years you careless dog". Fathers who have been irresponsible should certainly be made to pay, but the female side of this arguement is not always whiter than white.
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  #106  
Old 20.10.2010, 12:24
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Re: Father Not wanting responsibility

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This post is so obviously fake and a rather bad attempt at trolling.. and you are all jumping at it...
Trev, I thought the same thing when I first read the thread but had a quick look through her posting history, circumstances - I genuinely dont think she's a troll.

Bonjour

If it is, well then its been great to see how the men in the audience think.
Comparing having a baby to Ferraris and hobbies......good lordy.

MODS, CAN WE PLEASE SPLIT THIS?
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  #107  
Old 20.10.2010, 12:25
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Re: Father Not wanting responsibility

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MODS, CAN WE PLEASE SPLIT THIS?
Longbyt just told me in a PM that she doesn't want to split it as it would be too hard to moderate both threads and this would just fill up with off-topic posts again... doesn't really make sense to me, but she's a mod and it's her decision.
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  #108  
Old 20.10.2010, 12:27
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Re: Father Not wanting responsibility

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There has been a misunderstanding of this. I don't for a second mean don't choose as in sex without consent - christ no.

I meant in the case of genuine trickery - i.e. you don't realise your partner has gone off the pill - then becomes pregnant. In this situation the male has not chosen to have a child.

To be completely clear: it's aboslutely not about unconsensual sex.
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Ok, so what do you think a guy should do in this situation?
More important, how a guy can prove this?

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But the point is we haven't got over the drive to reproduce or bear children. Women who choose not to are exceptions surpressing their maternal instrincts, not the standard. Im sure many women and mothers on this forum can attest to how strong the urge is.
Maternal instincts is not in all women all the time and from birth, you know? It comes later into life. I didn't want to have kids when I was 20-25 years old, hell no! I was scared to death to stuck with a child on my arms on my own, so I did what was necessary to not have this happened. If I did fall pregnant, I knew that I would take the responsability as an adult. Maybe the maternal instinct would have developed from it but to say that it is a urge in every women, Hell no!

It came to me much later in life, Thank God for that!

Am I enough melo-drama to you? You want me to cry to make more effect?
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  #109  
Old 20.10.2010, 12:29
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Re: Father Not wanting responsibility

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Also, as Tax Payer, I am sick of susidising other peoples mistakes in the cost of caring for single parent mothers.
Nobody supports me apart from my ex so I'm not quite sure what you are on about

If you mean child support, I get the same as I would get if I were with him which essentially means you are disgruntled with people having kids in general, not just single parents.
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  #110  
Old 20.10.2010, 12:32
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Re: Father Not wanting responsibility

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More important, how a guy can prove this?



Maternal instincts is not in all women all the time and from birth, you know? It comes later into life. I didn't want to have kids when I was 20-25 years old, hell no! I was scared to death to stuck with a child on my arms on my own, so I did what was necessary to not have this happened. If I did fall pregnant, I knew that I would take the responsability as an adult. Maybe the maternal instinct would have developed from it but to say that it is a urge in every women, Hell no!

It came to me much later in life, Thank God for that!

Am I enough melo-drama to you? You want me to cry to make more effect?
My point was that as a collective species we haven't got over the instinctual urge to procreate.
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  #111  
Old 20.10.2010, 12:33
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Re: Father Not wanting responsibility

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Well I think terming it a "hobby" is triviliasing it somewhat unnecessarily... th urge to bear offspring in women is a poweful primeval drive that's been with us since the dawn of evolution, and as with all emotional and instinctual drives, they don't always necessarily pair with rational thought and common sense, or take all sensible factors into consideration.
"hobby" might not be the correct word to describe it and probably not relevant to the OP.
However, in the UK; a lot of teenagers purposely get pregnant because the benefit and social welfare system actually gives them the life they want with often no or little consideration for the child or the Tax payers that subsidise their lifestyle.
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  #112  
Old 20.10.2010, 12:37
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Re: Father Not wanting responsibility

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My point was that as a collective species we haven't got over the instinctual urge to procreate.
And if every member of the collective species chickens up and blames it on "the instinctual urge of the collective species" we never will either.
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  #113  
Old 20.10.2010, 12:38
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Re: Father Not wanting responsibility

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If you mean child support, I get the same as I would get if I were with him which essentially means you are disgruntled with people having kids in general, not just single parents.
No, what Cashboy (hopefully) means is that he doesn't want to pay (taxes) for anybody elses child.
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  #114  
Old 20.10.2010, 12:38
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Re: Father Not wanting responsibility

I'm not the only Mod on here anyway but I replied to the 'reporter' saying that I don't think splitting the Thread is really the solution. The OP has had advice plus the link that she needs. Go to the appropriate social services. What advice can we give her other than that? If anyone wants to offer support they can do so per PM.

Sure, I could split the Thread after the second post and put the rest of the posts in a new Thread. However, I haven't time today to go through the Thread reading every post to see if there are other helpful ones. Perhaps another Mod has. Anyway, the OP's original Thread would probably have to be closed or monitored to stop it going off the rails as well.

Sorry guys. Suggestions?
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  #115  
Old 20.10.2010, 12:40
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Re: Father Not wanting responsibility

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I'm not the only Mod on here anyway but I replied to the 'reporter' saying that I don't think splitting the Thread is really the solution. The OP has had advice plus the link that she needs. Go to the appropriate social services. What advice can we give her other than that? If anyone wants to offer support they can do so per PM.

Sure, I could split the Thread after the second post and put the rest of the posts in a new Thread. However, I haven't time today to go through the Thread reading every post to see if there are other helpful ones. Perhaps another Mod has. Anyway, the OP's original Thread would probably have to be closed or monitored to stop it going off the rails as well.

Sorry guys. Suggestions?
Totally agree with this analysis. She has the advice she needs for sure. And trying to go through every post and split it would be quite a task at this point...
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  #116  
Old 20.10.2010, 12:41
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Re: Father Not wanting responsibility

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However, in the UK; a lot of teenagers purposely get pregnant because the benefit and social welfare system actually gives them the life they want with often no or little consideration for the child or the Tax payers that subsidise their lifestyle.
Some single parents work full time too you know to make sure they aren't scrounging off the system

You are being a bit generalist don't you think? I work my arse off essentially doing two full time jobs - 7am-4.30pm paid work and 4.30pm - 7am slummy mummy.

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No, what Cashboy (hopefully) means is that he doesn't want to pay (taxes) for anybody elses child.
And neither do I but there are quite a lot of us out there who work very hard to make sure this isn't the case. See the OP's first post where she mentions daycare....maybe an indication that she works too?
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  #117  
Old 20.10.2010, 12:43
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Re: Father Not wanting responsibility

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"hobby" might not be the correct word to describe it and probably not relevant to the OP.
However, in the UK; a lot of teenagers purposely get pregnant because the benefit and social welfare system actually gives them the life they want with often no or little consideration for the child or the Tax payers that subsidise their lifestyle.

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  #118  
Old 20.10.2010, 12:44
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Re: Father Not wanting responsibility

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Some single parents work full time too you know to make sure they aren't scrounging off the system

You are being a bit generalist don't you think? I work my arse off essentially doing two full time jobs - 7am-4.30pm paid work and 4.30pm - 7am slummy mummy.
Then mimi, don't worry. Cashboy isn't talking about you.

I do agree with him though. There are definitely freeloaders everywhere, who will take every advantage of the system they possibly can (including having children they don't want so they can collect the money from the government).
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  #119  
Old 20.10.2010, 12:58
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Re: Father Not wanting responsibility

Absolutely true! But what if, just for example, a girl told him that she was using protection . .but actually for whatever reason, she was not? As has been said, there are a lot of factors, from both sides to consider.
I`m certainly no supporting what he said about not being his responsibility but I think it`s wrong to pre-judge.

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To Cashboy: Heard of condoms? Something the guy can use and prevent paternity.




To the OP: Best of luck and strength in this hard time.
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  #120  
Old 20.10.2010, 13:15
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Re: Father Not wanting responsibility

Lula78 - I am so glad you've been given good advice by mods. Sometimes it is so hard to comment on such difficult situations, without knowing the whole story and circumstances. I wish you the very best of luck.

I am sorry too If my comments might have seemed harsh. As said before, as a feminist (small f) born in early 50s - I find it medieval that women in the 21st C should still accept to have unprotected sex with any man- then ask them to cough up if one gets pregnant. Of course, contraception can fail, but this does not seem the case here. Intelligent women take the risk all the time - and I just don't get it. I am not of course saying the man does not have responsibility - but why allow them to put yourself in that risk situation. Unless of course, this is what you wanted, consciously or not.
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