Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Help & tips > Finance/banking/taxation  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 24.11.2010, 19:13
Newbie 1st class
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Zurich
Posts: 20
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 5 Times in 5 Posts
hawkiwa has no particular reputation at present
Tax rate as source depends on what?

I apologize if this has already been covered, but I couldn't find it.

Does your tax rate, when taxed at source, depend on the community in which you live in Switzerland? Or does it depend on the country you come from?

In other words, if I move from in the city of Zurich to somewhere like Kusnacht (with lower taxes), will I pay the same or less with an L permit?

Thanks a lot
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 24.11.2010, 19:27
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Vaud
Posts: 2,894
Groaned at 97 Times in 46 Posts
Thanked 1,932 Times in 921 Posts
Anthony1406 has a reputation beyond reputeAnthony1406 has a reputation beyond reputeAnthony1406 has a reputation beyond reputeAnthony1406 has a reputation beyond reputeAnthony1406 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Tax rate as source depends on what?

Has nothing to do with your country, depends on how much you make and where you live (Canton)
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Anthony1406 for this useful post:
  #3  
Old 24.11.2010, 19:34
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Zug
Posts: 693
Groaned at 25 Times in 21 Posts
Thanked 781 Times in 358 Posts
xkcd has a reputation beyond reputexkcd has a reputation beyond reputexkcd has a reputation beyond reputexkcd has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Tax rate as source depends on what?

Tax at source is based on the canton where you work - unless your taxable income exceeds 120k CHF, in which case you are first taxed at source at the cantonal level, but have to file a proper tax declaration early next year, which is then calculated on the communal level.
Moving from the city of Zurich to Kusnacht will not help you reducing your tax at source, since Küsnacht is in the same canton. You'd have to move to Küssnacht, which is in the canton of Schwyz.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank xkcd for this useful post:
  #4  
Old 24.11.2010, 19:43
Newbie 1st class
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Zurich
Posts: 20
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 5 Times in 5 Posts
hawkiwa has no particular reputation at present
Re: Tax rate as source depends on what?

Thanks for the quick replies!

Haha. Kussnacht is a little far for a daily commute, but a St. Nicholas parade is there next week, which looks pretty cool.

http://www.klausjagen.ch/
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 24.11.2010, 21:39
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 1,020
Groaned at 6 Times in 6 Posts
Thanked 345 Times in 262 Posts
bill_door has an excellent reputationbill_door has an excellent reputationbill_door has an excellent reputationbill_door has an excellent reputation
Re: Tax rate as source depends on what?

Quote:
View Post
Tax at source is based on the canton where you work - unless your taxable income exceeds 120k CHF, in which case you are first taxed at source at the cantonal level, but have to file a proper tax declaration early next year, which is then calculated on the communal level.
Moving from the city of Zurich to Kusnacht will not help you reducing your tax at source, since Küsnacht is in the same canton. You'd have to move to Küssnacht, which is in the canton of Schwyz.
hmm lets see ...

tax at source is based on the salary you earn and where you LIVE. not where you work.

(you could live in GVA but work in ZRH. tax at source is based on GVA in this case.)

tax at source is based on the cantonal mean of where you are living for the salary you are earning.

if you earn more than 120kCHF you have to make a tax return at which point the COMMUNE in which you live ultimately defines the tax rate.

living in Küsnacht (ZH) with 120kCHF salary and unmarried for 2011, is about 3500CHF cheaper (tax) per year compared with living in the ciy of Zürich.

any further dis-information you would like to add?

Last edited by bill_door; 24.11.2010 at 21:56. Reason: clarify point 1.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 24.11.2010, 21:54
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 1,020
Groaned at 6 Times in 6 Posts
Thanked 345 Times in 262 Posts
bill_door has an excellent reputationbill_door has an excellent reputationbill_door has an excellent reputationbill_door has an excellent reputation
Re: Tax rate as source depends on what?

Quote:
View Post
I apologize if this has already been covered, but I couldn't find it.

Does your tax rate, when taxed at source, depend on the community in which you live in Switzerland? Or does it depend on the country you come from?

In other words, if I move from in the city of Zurich to somewhere like Kusnacht (with lower taxes), will I pay the same or less with an L permit?

Thanks a lot
while on an L-permit you will pay the cantonal mean of tax at source for your salary where ever you live in canton Zürich. however if you earn more than 120kCHF a year you will have to make a tax return when you pay the tax rate based on the commune in which you were living on Dec 31st. if you earn less than 120kCHF and you have expenses or costs that you believe should be offset from a tax point of view then you should get a tax advisor or contact the tax authorities directly before the year end to understand the process and so as not to miss the tax deadlines in the following year.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 24.11.2010, 22:47
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Zug
Posts: 693
Groaned at 25 Times in 21 Posts
Thanked 781 Times in 358 Posts
xkcd has a reputation beyond reputexkcd has a reputation beyond reputexkcd has a reputation beyond reputexkcd has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Tax rate as source depends on what?

Quote:
View Post
hmm lets see ...

tax at source is based on the salary you earn and where you LIVE. not where you work.
(you could live in GVA but work in ZRH. tax at source is based on GVA in this case.)
any further dis-information you would like to add?
What shall I say - your sources might differ from mine. My source is the Federal regime for tax at source.
Tax at source is actually owed to the canton by your employer, not the individual. The cantonal tax authorities do not want to deal with a lot of individuals, who may be here only for a few months/years. Which is why the tax at source is calculated at the applicable rate of the canton you work. Or do you think a payroll deptm. calculates the tax rates individually depending on the canton of residency of the employees ? They don't.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 24.11.2010, 22:54
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Zug
Posts: 693
Groaned at 25 Times in 21 Posts
Thanked 781 Times in 358 Posts
xkcd has a reputation beyond reputexkcd has a reputation beyond reputexkcd has a reputation beyond reputexkcd has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Tax rate as source depends on what?

Quote:
View Post
hmm lets see ...
if you earn more than 120kCHF you have to make a tax return at which point the COMMUNE in which you live ultimately defines the tax rate.
living in Küsnacht (ZH) with 120kCHF salary and unmarried for 2011, is about 3500CHF cheaper (tax) per year compared with living in the ciy of Zürich.
any further dis-information you would like to add?
Let's see indeed: The TO asked for a way to reduce his/her tax at source. My response dealt with that accurately.
We do not know whether the TO earns more or less than 120k CHF. I did mention that if one earns more, the tax ruling will be based on the communal tax level.
If you want to provide a more holistic guidance you may also want to mention that the 3500 CHF tax savings will probably be eaten up by higher cost for rent/property, since tax havens are in greater demand. I believe that 2-3 yrs ago there was an analysis showing that a move to a tax haven (Zug?) did only pay off at salaries exceeding 180k/200k CHF.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 24.11.2010, 23:05
Arridge's Avatar
Newbie 1st class
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Zurich
Posts: 20
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 44 Times in 6 Posts
Arridge has earned the respect of manyArridge has earned the respect of manyArridge has earned the respect of many
Re: Tax rate as source depends on what?

Quote:
View Post
What shall I say - your sources might differ from mine. My source is the Federal regime for tax at source.
Tax at source is actually owed to the canton by your employer, not the individual. The cantonal tax authorities do not want to deal with a lot of individuals, who may be here only for a few months/years. Which is why the tax at source is calculated at the applicable rate of the canton you work. Or do you think a payroll deptm. calculates the tax rates individually depending on the canton of residency of the employees ? They don't.
Actually yes they do. My payroll department received a list with the monthly salary listed on the the side and then the %age of tax needed to be paid FOR THE COUNCIL I LIVED IN on the other, and with different lists depending on marital status and religion. Remember there are Federal, Cantonal and Council taxes and these are all deducted at source and distributed by the tax office in the council that you LIVE, not work.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 24.11.2010, 23:23
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Zug
Posts: 693
Groaned at 25 Times in 21 Posts
Thanked 781 Times in 358 Posts
xkcd has a reputation beyond reputexkcd has a reputation beyond reputexkcd has a reputation beyond reputexkcd has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Tax rate as source depends on what?

The tariff referred to in your German language text is determined by the marital status, church tax, and the number of children etc. This is being reported to the employer by the commune the employee lives in (they are the ones who actually have this info).
The tax rate (=percentage of taxable salary) applicable to the salary is determined by the canton - see the document in your link.
Quote:
Um die Quellensteuer berechnen zu können, benötigen Sie einerseits die von der Wohngemeinde des quellensteuerpflichtigen Arbeitnehmers mitgeteilte Tarif- einstufung. Anderseits benötigen Sie dieTariftabelle und die übrigen Unterlagen. Diese werden Ihnen durch das kantonale Steueramt, Dienstabteilung Quellen- steuer, zugestellt.
This tax rate will vary depending on the individual's actual tariff. If s/he moves to work in another canton, but continues to live in his/her canton the tariff (no of children, marital status etc) will remain the same, but s/he might end up paying a different tax amount, since the applicable "Tariftabelle" will most likely not be identical to the one in Zurich (assuming that the salary remains the same).
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 24.11.2010, 23:27
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 1,020
Groaned at 6 Times in 6 Posts
Thanked 345 Times in 262 Posts
bill_door has an excellent reputationbill_door has an excellent reputationbill_door has an excellent reputationbill_door has an excellent reputation
Re: Tax rate as source depends on what?

Quote:
View Post
What shall I say - your sources might differ from mine. My source is the Federal regime for tax at source.
Tax at source is actually owed to the canton by your employer, not the individual. The cantonal tax authorities do not want to deal with a lot of individuals, who may be here only for a few months/years.
perhaps, and only perhaps, for L-permits. Otherwise i believe what I have said is true for B and C permit holders. your tax liability is to the canton first then Federal. your tax return and tax deducted at source goes to the canton in which you live first, then they settle with the the Federal tax office on your behalf.

Quote:
View Post
Which is why the tax at source is calculated at the applicable rate of the canton you work. Or do you think a payroll deptm. calculates the tax rates individually depending on the canton of residency of the employees ? They don't.
in my personal case, living in one canton (B-permit) and having had 3 different employers in 3 different cantons (commuted to work from the other canton) over the last 8 years my tax at source has ALWAYS been the rate for the canton in which i lived. tax at source of where i was 'working' was never considered.

Last edited by bill_door; 24.11.2010 at 23:44.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 24.11.2010, 23:31
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 1,020
Groaned at 6 Times in 6 Posts
Thanked 345 Times in 262 Posts
bill_door has an excellent reputationbill_door has an excellent reputationbill_door has an excellent reputationbill_door has an excellent reputation
Re: Tax rate as source depends on what?

Quote:
View Post
Let's see indeed: The TO asked for a way to reduce his/her tax at source. My response dealt with that accurately.
in my opinion misleading. tax at source is based on the canton where you live not where you work. if they should need to make a tax return or believe they have the deductions that would warrant a tax return then it is the commune in which they live, not the commune in which they work, that matters.

Last edited by bill_door; 24.11.2010 at 23:45.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 24.11.2010, 23:33
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Zug
Posts: 693
Groaned at 25 Times in 21 Posts
Thanked 781 Times in 358 Posts
xkcd has a reputation beyond reputexkcd has a reputation beyond reputexkcd has a reputation beyond reputexkcd has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Tax rate as source depends on what?

My previous reply related to a link someone posted here earlier, but apparently deleted the reply meanwhile. Here is the link http://www.steueramt.zh.ch/html/steu...uertarife.htm#

Quote:
View Post
Actually yes they do. My payroll department received a list with the monthly salary listed on the the side and then the %age of tax needed to be paid FOR THE COUNCIL I LIVED IN on the other, and with different lists depending on marital status and religion. Remember there are Federal, Cantonal and Council taxes and these are all deducted at source and distributed by the tax office in the council that you LIVE, not work.
Hmm, maybe the SwissGerman cantons operate a more effective procedure. I work in a canton within the Romandie. My employer deducts the tax at source at the cantonal level and pays the canton where I work. The canton then transfers my tax at source to my canton of residency (after having kept the pile of cash from me and hundreds of others as a nice interest-free loan for a few years....) and they handle my actual tax filing once they receive the money. Payroll at our company is handled by one of the Big 5/4/3 (?? I keep losing track of how many are left these days). I assume that they know what they are doing....
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 24.11.2010, 23:35
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 1,020
Groaned at 6 Times in 6 Posts
Thanked 345 Times in 262 Posts
bill_door has an excellent reputationbill_door has an excellent reputationbill_door has an excellent reputationbill_door has an excellent reputation
Re: Tax rate as source depends on what?

Quote:
View Post
This tax rate will vary depending on the individual's actual tariff. If s/he moves to work in another canton, but continues to live in his/her canton the tariff (no of children, marital status etc) will remain the same, but s/he might end up paying a different tax amount, since the applicable "Tariftabelle" will most likely not be identical to the one in Zurich (assuming that the salary remains the same).
not in my experience. it has always been the cantonal mean for my personal circumstances of the canton in which i lived, not the where i worked.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank bill_door for this useful post:
  #15  
Old 24.11.2010, 23:38
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Zurich
Posts: 1,020
Groaned at 6 Times in 6 Posts
Thanked 345 Times in 262 Posts
bill_door has an excellent reputationbill_door has an excellent reputationbill_door has an excellent reputationbill_door has an excellent reputation
Re: Tax rate as source depends on what?

Quote:
View Post
Hmm, maybe the SwissGerman cantons operate a more effective procedure. I work in a canton within the Romandie. My employer deducts the tax at source at the cantonal level and pays the canton where I work. The canton then transfers my tax at source to my canton of residency (after having kept the pile of cash from me and hundreds of others as a nice interest-free loan for a few years....) and they handle my actual tax filing once they receive the money. Payroll at our company is handled by one of the Big 5/4/3 (?? I keep losing track of how many are left these days). I assume that they know what they are doing....
that sounds like the very particular 'tax war' that exists between GVA and VD! things are a little different between those two. (c;

I would question the Big 5/4/3/blue? to make sure. what i described above should be valid. unless there are other arrangements for L permits, i don't know. B-permit is a B-permit, you can be tracked anywhere in CH. there is no justification for what you describe if you have a B-permit.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 25.11.2010, 13:57
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Vaud
Posts: 2,894
Groaned at 97 Times in 46 Posts
Thanked 1,932 Times in 921 Posts
Anthony1406 has a reputation beyond reputeAnthony1406 has a reputation beyond reputeAnthony1406 has a reputation beyond reputeAnthony1406 has a reputation beyond reputeAnthony1406 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Tax rate as source depends on what?

Quote:
View Post
My previous reply related to a link someone posted here earlier, but apparently deleted the reply meanwhile. Here is the link http://www.steueramt.zh.ch/html/steu...uertarife.htm#



Hmm, maybe the SwissGerman cantons operate a more effective procedure. I work in a canton within the Romandie. My employer deducts the tax at source at the cantonal level and pays the canton where I work. The canton then transfers my tax at source to my canton of residency (after having kept the pile of cash from me and hundreds of others as a nice interest-free loan for a few years....) and they handle my actual tax filing once they receive the money. Payroll at our company is handled by one of the Big 5/4/3 (?? I keep losing track of how many are left these days). I assume that they know what they are doing....


Ive lived in VD and worked in VD , paid taxes in VD, then I moved to FR and worked in VD, was paying taxes where I live in FR not in VD.
was on an L permit, now on a B so I think you are wrong on that one ( btw im well below 120k ) both times paid in the canton where I lived.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank Anthony1406 for this useful post:
  #17  
Old 20.12.2010, 11:50
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Geneva
Posts: 192
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 13 Times in 13 Posts
wildboar has no particular reputation at present
Re: Tax rate as source depends on what?

I would actually like to hear from someone who worked in GE and lived in VD to know what exactly happened ?
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 20.12.2010, 11:53
Newbie 1st class
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Zug
Posts: 27
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 19 Times in 12 Posts
atzeboya is considered knowledgeableatzeboya is considered knowledgeableatzeboya is considered knowledgeable
Re: Tax rate as source depends on what?

it also depends on the permit:
L (temp 1 year)
B (temp 5 year)
pay the Quellensteuer (in advance at source),
while C-permit pays as the Swiss ones:
receive the gross salary and pay taxes once a year with their tax declaration
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 29.12.2010, 16:56
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Zurich
Posts: 87
Groaned at 5 Times in 3 Posts
Thanked 48 Times in 17 Posts
DRJC is considered knowledgeableDRJC is considered knowledgeableDRJC is considered knowledgeable
Re: Tax rate as source depends on what?

Chaps,

What if you move during the year, ie. move Gemini-thingies. How do they wack you for that >120k tax declaration thingy?
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 29.12.2010, 17:43
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Geneva
Posts: 5,514
Groaned at 123 Times in 108 Posts
Thanked 3,297 Times in 1,737 Posts
Shorrick Mk2 has a reputation beyond reputeShorrick Mk2 has a reputation beyond reputeShorrick Mk2 has a reputation beyond reputeShorrick Mk2 has a reputation beyond reputeShorrick Mk2 has a reputation beyond reputeShorrick Mk2 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Tax rate as source depends on what?

Quote:
View Post
My previous reply related to a link someone posted here earlier, but apparently deleted the reply meanwhile. Here is the link http://www.steueramt.zh.ch/html/steu...uertarife.htm#
And the link contradicts your version.

Quote:
Der anwendbare Tarif (A, B, C, D oder G) wird durch das Gemeindesteueramt des Wohnortes des Arbeitnehmers mitgeteilt.
Moral of the story - percentage is always defined based on canton of residence of the employee.
Reply With Quote
Reply




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Quick question on tax at source and tax on bonus AJJ Finance/banking/taxation 18 28.04.2011 13:24
Very confused, please, help! [Question about at-source tax rate] akha Finance/banking/taxation 34 09.04.2010 11:42
Tax a la source receive tax return documents marius_c1 Finance/banking/taxation 2 25.02.2010 14:59
Tax at source -> tax returns macst Finance/banking/taxation 8 29.06.2009 20:57
Tax forms, reclaiming tax at source Ashish Finance/banking/taxation 61 26.03.2008 14:15


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 06:41.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0