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Old 18.01.2011, 12:39
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tax repatriation when canton is changed between the year

Hi,

How is the tax split done between the cantons if the residence is changed between the year. Do you need to do the declaration in both the cantons? How are deductions taken in account?
And how is it sorted when the canton of work deducts tax at source?
Thanks!
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Old 18.01.2011, 13:15
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Re: tax repatriation when canton is changed between the year

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Hi,

How is the tax split done between the cantons if the residence is changed between the year. Do you need to do the declaration in both the cantons? How are deductions taken in account?
And how is it sorted when the canton of work deducts tax at source?
Thanks!
I heard from admin staff in VAUD that the tax is based on your residency on 1st january for the whole year (something like that, sorry for not being accurate)
IE: in my case, moving in feb means I will be taxed with the address earlier. That's convenient because the 1st address had cheaper taxes.

Although for the second concept (you move from higher to cheaper) then you pay for more the whole year...
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Old 18.01.2011, 13:25
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Re: tax repatriation when canton is changed between the year

Actually, the critical date is 31 Dec. when switching cantons.

So if you lived in canton A from 1 Jan 2010 through 30 Dec 2010, but moved (and registered ) in canton B on 31 Dec. 2010, you will pay tax for all of 2010 in canton B, despite having lived there only one day.

(This is of course a fictious example, as most Einwohnerkontrol offices would be closed on 31 Dec. )


Note that the rules when changing Gemeinden within a canton are different.


(No idea how, or if, paying Quellensteuer affects this.)
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Old 18.01.2011, 14:00
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Re: tax repatriation when canton is changed between the year

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Hi,

How is the tax split done between the cantons if the residence is changed between the year. Do you need to do the declaration in both the cantons? How are deductions taken in account?
And how is it sorted when the canton of work deducts tax at source?
Thanks!
Tell the first canton you are de-registering and moving to the second canton on a certain date. On the certain date register in the second canton. Tell your HR department that you have moved canton and they will adjust your tax at source rate to the reflect your new address. Where you live on the 31st Dec is the only tax return you make. the previous canton might send you letters for stuff but this is usually noise and once those requests are forwarded to your new canton they tend to sort things out among themselves. this 'noise' tends to be canton specific and who the second canton is. VD/GE for example have an interesting set up.
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Old 18.01.2011, 15:13
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Re: tax repatriation when canton is changed between the year

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Tell the first canton you are de-registering and moving to the second canton on a certain date. On the certain date register in the second canton. Tell your HR department that you have moved canton and they will adjust your tax at source rate to the reflect your new address. Where you live on the 31st Dec is the only tax return you make. the previous canton might send you letters for stuff but this is usually noise and once those requests are forwarded to your new canton they tend to sort things out among themselves. this 'noise' tends to be canton specific and who the second canton is. VD/GE for example have an interesting set up.
Okay here I am particularly talking about GE/VD case. My HR confirmed that I will still be taxed at source using the GE tax tables but if I understand well, I can do the declaration in vaud at the year end and vaud should pay me back (hopefully) as I would aleady have paid more at source using GE tables...

Is it as smooth as I mention it?
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Old 18.01.2011, 15:59
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Re: tax repatriation when canton is changed between the year

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Okay here I am particularly talking about GE/VD case. My HR confirmed that I will still be taxed at source using the GE tax tables but if I understand well, I can do the declaration in vaud at the year end and vaud should pay me back (hopefully) as I would aleady have paid more at source using GE tables...

Is it as smooth as I mention it?
your HR should be able to set your tax at source to VD now, I don't understand why some companies apparently refuse to do this!

anywaz, after you make a tax return and then wait about 18 months for it to be processed, VD will send you a bill for a LARGE amount of tax! you will then have to explain to them that you have a 'Tax account' in GE where your tax at source goes to and that they (VD) should ask them to transfer the amount in the account to them. at which point GE will probably get suspicious that you are living in VD only for convenience and are avoiding GE taxes which tend to be higher than VD, when you will probably have to prove to them that you do actually live in VD and that the centre of your family life, wife, kids, their schools etc is in VD.

[the large bill from VD is likely anyway, as it would appear the the tax return people are not aware of your tax at source account when they process the return. a quick phone call to Rue Caroline, i think, sorts that out pretty sharpish when everything is within VD. GE giving away the money is where the pain lies!]

it's a pain in the rear spending all that time on this, but that's how it is. unless you can get your HR to be more accommodating the scenario above is quite likely. but not until late 2013 assuming you move in Feb 2011
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Old 19.01.2011, 16:39
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Re: tax repatriation when canton is changed between the year

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your HR should be able to set your tax at source to VD now, I don't understand why some companies apparently refuse to do this!
Apparently it's written nowhere on any official site/documents that HR should use the VD tax if the employee if staying in Vaud. So there is no way to challenge this..

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anywaz, after you make a tax return and then wait about 18 months for it to be processed, VD will send you a bill for a LARGE amount of tax! you will then have to explain to them that you have a 'Tax account' in GE where your tax at source goes to and that they (VD) should ask them to transfer the amount in the account to them. at which point GE will probably get suspicious that you are living in VD only for convenience and are avoiding GE taxes which tend to be higher than VD, when you will probably have to prove to them that you do actually live in VD and that the centre of your family life, wife, kids, their schools etc is in VD.
Btw, I will tell GE tax deptt. now as soon as I make a move to Vaud so if they have to ask questions, they should ask now and not a year later when it comes to vaud asking back the money..
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Old 19.01.2011, 16:46
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Re: tax repatriation when canton is changed between the year

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Actually, the critical date is 31 Dec. when switching cantons.

So if you lived in canton A from 1 Jan 2010 through 30 Dec 2010, but moved (and registered ) in canton B on 31 Dec. 2010, you will pay tax for all of 2010 in canton B, despite having lived there only one day.

(This is of course a fictious example, as most Einwohnerkontrol offices would be closed on 31 Dec. )
Nope, it is not fictitious. I moved in late Dec, but only registered that move in Jan this year, back tracking to the move date - so I will benefit from lower taxes for the whole of 2010.

You basically have +/- 2 weeks to register your move within CH, so you could indeed register on 31 Dec.

Furthermore both the Basel (de-register) and SO (register) Gemeinde offices were open on 31st. It being a Friday, the SO one only opens in the morning, so afternoon closure (common for days before a holiday) had no effect anyway.

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Apparently it's written nowhere on any official site/documents that HR should use the VD tax if the employee if staying in Vaud. So there is no way to challenge this.
It isn't written anywhere because it is so bleedin' obvious that only a fool would think otherwise... you pay taxes based on where you live. Have you contacted the Vaud tax authorities?
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Old 19.01.2011, 16:50
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Re: tax repatriation when canton is changed between the year

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at which point GE will probably get suspicious that you are living in VD only for convenience and are avoiding GE taxes which tend to be higher than VD, when you will probably have to prove to them that you do actually live in VD and that the centre of your family life, wife, kids, their schools etc is in VD.
Rubbish. I live in SZ and I would estimate that 90% of the people living in my Gemeinde
a) work in Zurich
b) moved to SZ mainly to save taxes

This is completely legal, so what could Zurich get "suspicious" about?

If you register at a Gemeinde, you have either your own property or need to supply a rental contract. So as soon as you are registered, you are fine. The "suspicion" part only comes up when people have a second address in Zurich or Geneva. Then the Canton might think that you just rent a place in the other Canton to save taxes... and if you say that you only live in Geneva from Mon-Fri as "Wochenaufhalter" (whatever that is in French) while you family and center of live is in Vaud, you better do not open the door if they come and check your Geneva address on a Saturday...
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Old 19.01.2011, 21:43
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Re: tax repatriation when canton is changed between the year

looking at the number plates of the cars in the garage where i live (canton zurich) they are all registered in Sz or Zg.
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Old 19.01.2011, 23:41
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Time to refund

"anywaz, after you make a tax return and then wait about 18 months for it to be processed"

Ergghh, please tell me I will not have to wait 18 months for a refund? I live in Luzern, but have have taxes withdrawn at source in Geneve; it's my first year in this great country and I was rather hoping for a speedy refund in February/March- any hope?

(sorry for the hijack)
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Old 20.01.2011, 00:23
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Re: Time to refund

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Ergghh, please tell me I will not have to wait 18 months for a refund? I live in Luzern, but have have taxes withdrawn at source in Geneve; it's my first year in this great country and I was rather hoping for a speedy refund in February/March- any hope?
Nope. Geneva needs your money.
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Old 20.01.2011, 00:43
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You can ask your new gemeinde/commune for a letter to be sent to your payroll claiming your tax at source. My ZH gemeinde did this when I was a weekly resident in BE
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Old 20.01.2011, 01:17
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Re: Time to refund

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Ergghh, please tell me I will not have to wait 18 months for a refund?
(sorry for the hijack)
that was my experience when i lived in VD an worked in ZRH. 18 months from submission to payout. some people have waited up to 3 years!
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Old 21.01.2011, 09:19
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Re: tax repatriation when canton is changed between the year

Groan... well, thanks for the info. I will ask the Gemeinde for the letter, nevertheless my employer has initially appeared quite stubborn on the issue.

Thanks for the info.
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