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Old 02.03.2011, 17:38
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can 3a pillar be useful in this case? + other questions (eu citizen)

hello people
I'm about to start working in CH, and I will work 3 years (hoping to stay longer or permanently). I am a EU citizen.
I will have compulsory AVS and LPP (1st and 2nd pillar). I'm wondering if I can have some benefits from opening also a 3a account, at postfinance.
I'd like to know
  • if and how is it possible to withdraw the sum at the end of the 3 years, in case I leave CH (taxes should be about 5%)
  • does it work in the same way for 2nd and 3rd pillar for eu citizens? i mean, you can't withdray money but just move them to another national pension system?
  • how can I say to my employer that I put some money in the 3a account (part of the taxes should be refunded, right?)? Or does it happen automatically?
I'm sorry I'm not an expert in the financial/economic field so the words are maybe not the best.
thanks

btw, i know that from the gross annual salary i will have a TOTAL deduction of about 13,5% (incl ahv lpp...), shoud it help for the answer... thanks

Last edited by vwild1; 03.03.2011 at 04:38. Reason: merged 2 successive posts into 1
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Old 03.03.2011, 08:03
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Re: can 3a pillar be useful in this case? + other questions (eu citizen)

I believe withdrawal of pillar 2 as cash for EU citizens is possible only for any amount you have which is in excess of the BVG coordinated amount. Any 'mandatory' element must be transferred to your new pension arrangements outside of Switzerland. You need to discuss the details with you pension provider or read your pension statements and understand what this difference may be. There will be a tax charge made for any withdrawal, which your cantonal tax authority can provide information about. For Zurich tax residents you can find information here : http://www.steueramt.zh.ch/html/steu...e_personen.htm using the "Kapitalleistungen aus Vorsorge" link. Note that there is a small federal tax charge in addition to the cantonal one (a separate calculator is provided for this at that link). The larger tax rate is dependent on your canton and gemeinde (local area) where you live as registered for taxation. I believe if you withdraw after leaving Switzerland the appropriate taxation is according to the registered address of the Stiftung (trust) which is holding your benefits at the time of withdrawal. When I last looked I think the taxation appears to be based on calculating what the income tax rate would be if your only income was 1/10th of the amount withdrawn. This rate is then multiplied by the full amount withdrawn. This calculation can be revised from time to time by the Canton.

I believe pillar 3 can be fully withdrawn as cash when you leave Switzerland. The amount withdrawn would be taxed as in the above.

For pillar 3 your employer is not involved. You open the account by walking into a bank with appropriate paperwork (e.g. passport, residency permit). Once opened, you pay money in (from your bank account i.e. normal taxed earnings) up to the limit for that year (currently about 6500sfr). If you wish to claim back the tax you need to file some paperwork with the tax authority, either a full tax return accompanied by an end-of-year certificate from the pillar3 fund, or I believe some simpler form is available for people who wouldn't normally be required to file a full tax return.
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Old 03.03.2011, 08:52
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Re: can 3a pillar be useful in this case? + other questions (eu citizen)

All the informations provided above are very clear and respond neatly to the question. The only thing I wanted to add regards both your total deduction and the periodicity of a 3a Pillar.

In fact, the tax deduction differs according to anyone's personal situation. In your case, if you are placing a 3a in an insurance funds, you will be reimbursed up to the 13,5% in the amount placed in your 3a Pillar. But you need to be careful about the administrative formality required for the tax deduction.
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Old 03.03.2011, 09:05
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Re: can 3a pillar be useful in this case? + other questions (eu citizen)

Also mind about taking few minutes to ask your Postfinance counsellor about the amount you will receive at the third year; as this can help you to decide if you have to place your money in an insurance product or in a bank product.

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Old 03.03.2011, 15:41
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Re: can 3a pillar be useful in this case? + other questions (eu citizen)

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Also mind about taking few minutes to ask your Postfinance counsellor about the amount you will receive at the third year; as this can help you to decide if you have to place your money in an insurance product or in a bank product.
i was thinking about a bank product, easier to handle, but i'll have a look to safe constant rate insurance products too always from postfinance anyway

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In fact, the tax deduction differs according to anyone's personal situation. In your case, if you are placing a 3a in an insurance funds, you will be reimbursed up to the 13,5% in the amount placed in your 3a Pillar. But you need to be careful about the administrative formality required for the tax deduction.
13,5 includes avh bvg and everything right? tax at source will be applied on withdrawal, so i was wondering the exact rate of refunding
tax at source in ZH should be 4%. so for 3 years it does not seem convenient, unless the refunded amount is 13,5% of deposited money
i was thinking about bank account 3a postfinance
and, do you mean I have to file the forms "perfectly"? is there any public office where they help with these things?

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Any 'mandatory' element must be transferred to your new pension arrangements outside of Switzerland.
EU and CH has an agreement about this, and nothing can be done, money stay in CH and they will arrive when retired
Quote:
I believe pillar 3 can be fully withdrawn as cash when you leave Switzerland. The amount withdrawn would be taxed as in the above.
do you have some official link? for example from admin.ch??
i found this
http://www.pens-expert.ch/en/3a/moving-abroad
Quote:
For pillar 3 your employer is not involved.
If you wish to claim back the tax you need to file some paperwork with the tax authority, either a full tax return accompanied by an end-of-year certificate from the pillar3 fund, or I believe some simpler form is available for people who wouldn't normally be required to file a full tax return.
i've found this one around, can it be the simpler form you mention?
http://www.steueramt.zh.ch/cgi-bin/g...d75b5869bc.pdf


btw, thanks a lot guys
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Old 21.02.2012, 09:23
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Re: can 3a pillar be useful in this case? + other questions (eu citizen)

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If you wish to claim back the tax you need to file some paperwork with the tax authority, either a full tax return accompanied by an end-of-year certificate from the pillar3 fund, or I believe some simpler form is available for people who wouldn't normally be required to file a full tax return.
Do you know how this works in Vaud? Has anyone done the procedure here? I'm having trouble contacting the correct tax person at the Office des Impots, the automated voice always says the person is absent, please call back later...
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Old 21.02.2012, 10:21
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Re: can 3a pillar be useful in this case? + other questions (eu citizen)

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Do you know how this works in Vaud? Has anyone done the procedure here? I'm having trouble contacting the correct tax person at the Office des Impots, the automated voice always says the person is absent, please call back later...
I just got the reply by email from the Office des Impots and this is what they say:

Etant imposé à la source, vous ne pouvez pas remplir de déclaration ordinaire. Vous ne pouvez donc pas utiliser le logiciel VauxTax.

Il y a lieu de remplir la "Déclaration simplifiée", vous trouverez ce document sur notre site www.vd.ch ou en cliquant sur le lien direct suivant:
http://www.vd.ch/fr/themes/etat-droit-finances/impots/espace-professionnel/impot-a-la-source/sourciers/declaration-dimpot-simplifiee/

In short, you need to complete the simplified declaration (click long link).
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