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  #61  
Old 01.04.2011, 21:10
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Re: Opening a Mortgage account with UBS - US Citizen disclosure papers?

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Don't get yourself worked up about the rhetoric. I know plenty of US citizens that don't bother with taxes in the US and don't plan to start. US is good for using "scare" tactics by making an example of a few to get the many inline. US is broke at the moment, so they are scavenging the seven seas to get money. I agree that it's totally unfair, and as one poster stated, it's making having US citizenship a drag. I love the US but it's not the country it was once was, nor will it ever be. People are realizing there are other wonderful places in the world to live. I think the US is the only country that has "double taxation." As some say "don't fix it if it ain't broke." Many avoid it by not announcing their US citizenship, it becomes a non-factor. As of yet I know of no-one who have had any repercussions for doing so. Of course this is only MHO.
What country isn't broke? How is it double taxation? There are tax agreements between countries to reduce this. Switzerland also taxes on worldwide wealth.
I love all the advise here advise here basically telling people to break the law.
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  #62  
Old 01.04.2011, 21:31
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Re: Opening a Mortgage account with UBS - US Citizen disclosure papers?

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. I love the US but it's not the country it was once was, nor will it ever be. People are realizing there are other wonderful places in the world to live.
I am not sure the US was ever the country it once was. We were just better at marketing.
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  #63  
Old 01.04.2011, 22:24
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Re: Opening a Mortgage account with UBS - US Citizen disclosure papers?

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Well - once in the last 15 years and no plans for the future make this a bearable risk.
You just never know.
There are some medical treatments that are available in the US only and that you may need to use someday.
I don't know your full situation but what about if you have kids or family that will move to the US. You may not be able to visit them even if you have to for an emergency situation.
I understand the dilemma but I would personally come clean.
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  #64  
Old 01.04.2011, 22:26
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Re: Opening a Mortgage account with UBS - US Citizen disclosure papers?

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In matters of law ignorance is not a defense
Exactly.

If you are a US citizen, you MUST file, even if you don't owe them anything and you've earned no income there and you 'don't benefit'.

If you think the IRS 'has no jurisdiction', have you honestly never heard of INTERPOL and extradition? Do you believe that the US doesn't have agreements with some countries whereby you can be detained by local authorities. You can even be detained by crossing non-US borders using your US passport and it is flagged that you be held for possible extradition.

As has been asked and unanswered, if you disagree with the policy of being taxed on your worldwide income even though you 'don't benefit' from possible taxation on the same, WHY do you keep renewing your US passport? Foolish sentimentality? Doubtful. You know the rules, at least answer that question honestly.
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  #65  
Old 01.04.2011, 22:31
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Re: Opening a Mortgage account with UBS - US Citizen disclosure papers?

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What country isn't broke? How is it double taxation? There are tax agreements between countries to reduce this. Switzerland also taxes on worldwide wealth.
I love all the advise here advise here basically telling people to break the law.
The word is "advice"...anyways point taken. Thats why I wrote MHO...
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  #66  
Old 01.04.2011, 22:44
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Re: Opening a Mortgage account with UBS - US Citizen disclosure papers?

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The word is "advice"...anyways point taken. Thats why I wrote MHO...
mho is a word?
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  #67  
Old 02.04.2011, 01:13
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Re: Opening a Mortgage account with UBS - US Citizen disclosure papers?

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mho is a word?
No it's closer to a euphonism.
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  #68  
Old 02.04.2011, 06:52
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mho is a word?
Acronym, technically. My honest opinion in most circles. The US does seem to extend its tentacles a bit farther than other countries insofar as taxation of expat citizens is involved. And while we can debate the relative merits and responsibilities of US citizenship, to some people it appears to be an invasion of privacy and taxation without much representation. But Prosperity Joy is right, plenty of US citizens in the US don't comply with tax law. But if you rely on your US passport, it's probably wise to comply.

And technically, I do not believe there is a good tax treaty between the US and Switzerland. It is possible to be double-taxed on some accounts, such as 3rd pillar. But, you just have to be aware and have good tax advice.
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  #69  
Old 04.04.2011, 08:11
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Re: Opening a Mortgage account with UBS - US Citizen disclosure papers?

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Switzerland also taxes on worldwide wealth.
Only if you live here.

The US taxes you regardless of where you live.

That's a big difference.

Tom
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  #70  
Old 04.04.2011, 10:00
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Re: Opening a Mortgage account with UBS - US Citizen disclosure papers?

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defense, evacuation of a countries citizens..
Assistance from the embassy. etc
I am Swiss as well
= no need for defense, evacuation or embassy assistance from the US.
Even if there was a situation where I would need such services I would probably call the Swiss embassy first.
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  #71  
Old 04.04.2011, 10:06
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Re: Opening a Mortgage account with UBS - US Citizen disclosure papers?

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To be honest I find it hard to believe that people have not heard of this obligation as an US citizen/residence permit holder, have you never filed taxes in Switzerland? or somewhere else? the question are you an US citizen/green card holder is always there...that should raise a red flag.
I lived in Germany from birth. I filled taxes there. The Swiss government never required that I file taxes in Switzerland as well. Once I moved back to Switzerland I filed taxes here - and not anymore in Germany.
If you only have the US citizenship I am sure you are more prone to find out what is going on in the US. But I lived in Germany on a Swiss Passport - so you might find it hard to believe but just as much as I have no clue about the US political system - I also have no clue about their tax system. Just a lack of interest on my part I suppose (I can tell you everything about the German or Swiss System if you'd like and I vote in every election here - because it's relevant to my daily life). But now that it's come into my consciousness I am going to have to do something about it. Doesn't mean I have to agree with or like it.
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  #72  
Old 04.04.2011, 10:07
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Re: Opening a Mortgage account with UBS - US Citizen disclosure papers?

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Yes if they have never left the US maybe. But wouldn't one need a passport to get into Switzerland?
Not if you are Swiss as well... which is my case.
I actually just noticed yesterday that my US passport expired. Because I never use it...
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  #73  
Old 04.04.2011, 10:21
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Re: Opening a Mortgage account with UBS - US Citizen disclosure papers?

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What country isn't broke? How is it double taxation? There are tax agreements between countries to reduce this. Switzerland also taxes on worldwide wealth.
I love all the advise here advise here basically telling people to break the law.
Um... Switzerland is not broke and no they don't.
They tax you on income and worldwide wealth while living in Switzerland.
They do not tax you on your worldwide wealth or income if you live outside of Switzerland. They only tax you on your properties or money earned in Switzerland if you live abroad. http://www.aso.ch/en/consultation/li...broad/taxation
This is normal. If I had property in the US I would also pay property tax on it... because it's in the US. Why should I pay tax to the US on property I own in Switzerland - while I live in Switzerland?

The US tax you on your worldwide income and wealth no matter where you are.

And don't worry - I am taking all the advice on here for what it is... advice from the "internets" ;-)
I will sit down with a proper tax consultant who understands the Swiss and US system to get some professional advice.
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  #74  
Old 04.04.2011, 10:35
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Re: Opening a Mortgage account with UBS - US Citizen disclosure papers?

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Exactly.

If you are a US citizen, you MUST file, even if you don't owe them anything and you've earned no income there and you 'don't benefit'.

If you think the IRS 'has no jurisdiction', have you honestly never heard of INTERPOL and extradition? Do you believe that the US doesn't have agreements with some countries whereby you can be detained by local authorities. You can even be detained by crossing non-US borders using your US passport and it is flagged that you be held for possible extradition.

As has been asked and unanswered, if you disagree with the policy of being taxed on your worldwide income even though you 'don't benefit' from possible taxation on the same, WHY do you keep renewing your US passport? Foolish sentimentality? Doubtful. You know the rules, at least answer that question honestly.
Seems like someone hasn't read the whole thread and is venting a bit...
I have Swiss citizenship. Do you think they would extradite me? I think not.
I travel everywhere on my Swiss ID. I do not travel to the US.
Have you ever heard of the US going to Interpol for a single person with no wealth and hardly any taxable income - I think not. I think the US has bigger problems than hunting individuals. All the information they got from the UBS was from people who have millions and probably knowingly evaded taxes in the US. And that's what they will keep doing - going after the big banks in the US with lists of people they know have something to hide.

I actually did not renew my passport (just noticed yesterday that it expired) because I never use it. It's just something I have. Why if I have no hassle with it would I decide to stop having it?!
I've said multiple times in this thread that I just wasn't aware of this and now that I am you are right - I have to do something about it. And this might include renouncing my citizenship if I really don't agree with it. But before I do that I will be getting proper information from a professional who knows the laws and then decide what to do.
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  #75  
Old 04.04.2011, 10:38
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Re: Opening a Mortgage account with UBS - US Citizen disclosure papers?

If you're curious here's the tax treaty betwen the US and Switzerland

www.irs.gov/pub/irs-trty/swiss.pdf
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  #76  
Old 04.04.2011, 10:41
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Re: Opening a Mortgage account with UBS - US Citizen disclosure papers?

By the way - anyone know of a good tax consultant or "Treuhänder" who specializes on US / Swiss taxation?
Can be anywhere in Switzerland around the large cities (Zurich, Winterthur, Schaffhausen, Bern, Basel, Lausanne, Geneva) - I get around a lot.
Thanks
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  #77  
Old 04.04.2011, 10:45
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Re: Opening a Mortgage account with UBS - US Citizen disclosure papers?

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If you're curious here's the tax treaty betwen the US and Switzerland

www.irs.gov/pub/irs-trty/swiss.pdf
Thanks - I probably have enough links now to fill a whole weekend with reading. I think at this point I'd rather pay someone for their knowledge who has studied all this and does it for a living.
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  #78  
Old 04.04.2011, 11:03
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Re: Opening a Mortgage account with UBS - US Citizen disclosure papers?

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Thanks - I probably have enough links now to fill a whole weekend with reading. I think at this point I'd rather pay someone for their knowledge who has studied all this and does it for a living.
Probably the best since with the number of deductions you can claim on your US return you might not end up oweing anything, making paying an accountant cost effective.
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