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  #21  
Old 21.10.2011, 18:16
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Re: Family Allowance & Child Benefit

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Be prepared: the allowance is not tax free and if you receive it as a backdated lump sum as I did in the end you'll get less than expected, specially if you pay Quellensteuer.
At the end of the year, it will all balance out. After my tax returns etc.
As I was not expecting it, and had given up (last month, I was just about ready to phone the towel in) , any amount is a bonus, and having the fight end was even more of a bonus. I guess the message is, do not give up when fighting beaurocacy, common sense prevails.
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  #22  
Old 21.10.2011, 18:25
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Re: Family Allowance & Child Benefit

Seems like the UK child benefit office have started to see sense, I too have been told that this month I will recieve all of my child allowance backdated from the time I entered Switzerland for my daughters from my previous marriage. I am also getting the next installment for my sons from my current partnership.

Like upthehatters I ended up going directly to the Director of the agency and threatening legal action.

What you need to quote in the letter to the UK agency is EEC 1408/71 article 84, which obliges them to share information with the Swiss GEFAK as though they are the same office.

I agree totally, never give up.
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  #23  
Old 21.10.2011, 18:32
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Re: Family Allowance & Child Benefit

If you are working or claiming unemployment benefit, you will have no trouble claiming for your natural children living abroad. You need to prove with birth certificates that they are indeed your children. I believe adopted children living abroad are not covered.

As already mentioned, any payments already made by an EU country will be deducted.

Each Canton will have a different administration, so you need to find out where to make your claim, contact the social services in your village to find out where. The office will then inform your employer. You must then repeat this process if you move to another canton!
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  #24  
Old 21.10.2011, 18:38
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Re: Family Allowance & Child Benefit

Sbrinz, I agree in principle that it should be no trouble, but it has taken two years for the UK office to pass the info on. The problem with my case, was that they paid a claim they shouldn't have as my current partner doesn't work and the one they should for my daughters from my first marriage they refused to give information for under the data protection act.

Just as a point of information too, if your current partner lives in the UK with the children but doesn't work they cannot claim the UK child Benefit, it all has to be claimed by the parent over here that is working. This is under the priority payment rules.
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  #25  
Old 15.12.2011, 14:31
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Re: Family Allowance & Child Benefit

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You can, and I have. You have to fill in. Form E411 and hand to your employer.


Supplementary form for families with children, who are living in an EU/EFTA country

Employees, whose families are resident in an EU/EFTA country must fill, in addition, the Form 411 (Point A, 1-4, as well as point B, 8 and 9) and add to the above application.

hi,
is there a similar "rule" for nationals of NON-EU/EFTA countries?
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  #26  
Old 15.12.2011, 15:13
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Re: Family Allowance & Child Benefit

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is there a similar "rule" for nationals of NON-EU/EFTA countries?
Not that I am aware of.
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  #27  
Old 31.01.2012, 17:22
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Re: Family Allowance & Child Benefit

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hi,
is there a similar "rule" for nationals of NON-EU/EFTA countries?

There are countries (as mine - Israel) which hold mutual agreements regarding aspects of social security. You can check with your home country.
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  #28  
Old 12.02.2012, 11:21
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Re: Family Allowance & Child Benefit

Possibly you are right, but then you will receive the whole amount retroactively, which means a lot of money.

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Just when the child receives the residency status in Switzerland.
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  #29  
Old 22.05.2012, 03:25
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Re: Family Allowance & Child Benefit

Hope this is the right thread...but I need to see if I heard wrong or not - but a relative spposedly gets 300 CHF per child, while I get 200 (in the same canton). Would that be possible? I thought 200 CHF was the limit.
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  #30  
Old 22.05.2012, 07:32
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Re: Family Allowance & Child Benefit

Ill start receiving one soon (when we get the birth cert. translated). Will let know then...
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  #31  
Old 22.05.2012, 08:04
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Re: Family Allowance & Child Benefit

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Hope this is the right thread...but I need to see if I heard wrong or not - but a relative spposedly gets 300 CHF per child, while I get 200 (in the same canton). Would that be possible? I thought 200 CHF was the limit.
It could vary because of the age of the child. It could vary because their employer is also 'chipping in' a bit extra....

We have documents that are issued to us from the Canton (Zurich) that very clearly set out the amount we get per child, and the validity dates for the payment (the amount changes according to their birthdate). When the Canton changes the amount, then we get a new notification...
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  #32  
Old 22.05.2012, 08:27
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Re: Family Allowance & Child Benefit

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I don't believe that you can claim for UK based children - I was informed by SVA and my employers (both as I have had 2 jobs here) that it is only for children in Switzerland. In my 5 full years here I haven't had a single franc for my UK based children even though I pay alot in maintenance fees to my ex-wife and this is all on my tax return. I get the 200CHF for my Swiss daughter though.
You can - we were thinking of sending the better half and the children back to the UK because of some serious schooling issues here. My accountant confirmed that it was possible to receive the child benefit here if the children went back to the UK. Practicalities may be different.
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  #33  
Old 22.05.2012, 09:33
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Re: Family Allowance & Child Benefit

We are in the process of claiming for the time when I was still in Belgium with our son but OH was working here. We are entitled but getting all the paperwork required is a total nightmare.Hopefully we are now over the last hurdle and will be receiving it soon (backdated to April 2009)
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  #34  
Old 23.06.2012, 01:42
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Re: Family Allowance & Child Benefit

I see on the forum that claim form E411 can be filled and given to HR to claim child benefit in CH if dependent children are not living here. But what is the cut-off age? My children are over 18 and still at Uni in UK. I think Swiss child benefit continues up to age 25 if in full-time education. Are students from 18-25 still eligible for child allowance? If so, then my company Family Allowance is also payable, and all back datable for 5 years. Any clarification please. Thanks.
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  #35  
Old 23.06.2012, 03:16
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Re: Family Allowance & Child Benefit

Yes it is payable to children abroad, if one parent works in Switzerland

Werden Familienzulagen auch für Kinder im Ausland bezahlt?
Auch für Kinder, die im Ausland leben, kann ein Anspruch auf Kinderzulage geltend gemacht werden. Dies ist möglich, wenn ein berechtigtes Elternteil in der Schweiz lebt. Nicht notwendig ist es, dass auch die Kinder in der Schweiz leben.

Wenn beide Eltern erwerbstätig sind, so wird die Familienzulage in erster Linie im Wohnland der Kinder ausbezahlt. Jedoch kann der andere Elternteil in der Schweiz die Differenz beantragen, sofern er hier mehr Kinderzlage erhalten würde.
Dies gilt für Staatsangehörte der der EU und EFTA. Für Kinder von Staatsangehörigen von Serbien, Montenegro und Bosnien - Herzegowina werden die Familienzulagen weltweit ausgerichtet, weil sich die Schweiz in Staatsverträgen dazu verpflichtet hat. In den anderen Fällen können die Beträge nur in der Schweiz ausbezahlt werden.
Zur Berechnung der Kinderzulage gibt es eine gut Online-Seite: www.kinderzulage.ch

http://www.babycenter.ch/baby/familienleben/elterngeld/

Calculator, with country selection, http://soprop.ch/de/kizu.html
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  #36  
Old 23.06.2012, 08:55
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Re: Family Allowance & Child Benefit

Thanks for that. I wish this response was more widely known, as there is some confusion.

I have had so many different answers to that question. My large Swiss international company HR (who should know better!) and several tax forums on the net all say "no, as children not living with you", which seems the logical answer.

My work colleagues say "no, because your children are over 18 and can earn their own income, even if in full-time education." I am one of the few in this situation: wife and 3 children over 18 living overseas.

It seems that Switzerland is the only country in EU and EEA paying child benefit allowance from 18 -25 years. In the UK it stops at 16, or 18 if in full time education.

I have completed form E411, and forwarded it to HR, who will probably sit on it. It means more paperwork for them. If eligible for child benefit, they also have to pay family allowance.

All benefits are backdateable to 5 years max, and I have been in CH for 4 years, so expect a large (taxable) lump sum!
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  #37  
Old 24.06.2012, 11:29
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Re: Family Allowance & Child Benefit

My HR is not being helpful with my E411 claim for child benefit. They knew my family situation from the contract start, several years ago, as family details were requested.
Now I am more informed about my rights and E411, emails to HR about child benefit and family allowance are ignored, replies evasive or buck-passing. The company line still seems to be that if dependent children are not living here, then no benefit is payable, and therefore no family allowance is payable. I am not sure what to do next, as the E411 must be completed by HR and forwarded to Geneva, then to the UK for completion. This shouldn't take too long, a few weeks?
What leverage can I use? If I "annoy" HR, they will do nothing, as in the past. Do I have to use legal avenues? Surely any large company's HR should help their employees, which is their main job, rather than ignoring the situation or letting employees find the information for themselves. I feel I am banging my head against a wall!
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Old 24.06.2012, 11:39
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Re: Family Allowance & Child Benefit

If they haven't paid the 'kinderzulagen' then it's going to be a massive headache for them. It's a tax/payroll issue rather than an 'HR' issue - who do you speak to if there is a problem with your salary not being paid/calculated/taxed properly ?

Have you been lodging tax returns ? If so, it should have come up with your tax agent... and you could ask your tax agent to query your employer.

You could also take your documentation so the tax office in your city. They will be unimpressed if the employer failed to lodge the correct tax/pay the kinderzulagen.


At some point in your recruitment process with your employer, they should have asked you if you had any 'dependent' children. If you said 'yes' then it should have been coded into the system. If you said 'no' - well, then they only went on the information they had.

I'm going to assume you pay 'quellensteuer' - tax at source. Because if you pay after doing a tax return each year, it should have been sorted out that way...
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  #39  
Old 24.06.2012, 12:09
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Re: Family Allowance & Child Benefit

Thanks for the info. Yes, I assume it will be a big headache for them, as myself and several colleagues are in the same situation, but not our fault or problem! Also, payments will have to be backdated for us all for 4 years. TBH, I have no sympathy if HR/payroll has not done their job properly, as they were told of the family situation at the start of the contract, and this was recorded. Their mantra was, and still is, if dependent children are not living with you, then no child benefit or family allowance is payable.
I phoned head of payroll, who confirmed this to me. "You can try, but not eligible. Good luck!"
But they have to initiate the E411 claim process. I even downloaded the forms in French and English, and sent to them.
I am running out of patience, and need to start turning the screw. I know I am eligible for both payments, backdated for 4 years, which could be up to 35,000CHF! I still pay tax at source, so this will be taxed, but as it has been owed for each of the past 48 months, should it be taxed as a lump sum? What legal options do I have? Can I charge my employer for getting legal advice, and even taking them to court? My point is that HR/payroll is not aware of the benefit situation for dependents abroad, and as a large international organisation they should be.
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  #40  
Old 25.06.2012, 19:45
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Re: Family Allowance & Child Benefit

Success, of some sort. I have finally got a response from my HR department, who have contacted the Geneva social security office, the Caisses Familiales. The response seems to me to be opposite to what the LaFam, and other posts on this forum, have suggested, but maybe I am wrong, or it can be initiated from either country.

I have been asked to get form E411 sent from the UK, ask my wife to complete it (although she is not the Swiss employee applying for child benefit asked for in part 1 of the form). Part 2 is clearly about the "conjoint", who is living with our dependent children there. It cannot be for me to complete, because the children do not live with me. Payments are then made from the Swiss benefit office back to the UK, who pass this onto my wife. I have no problems with who receives the benefit, but doing it in reverse means I cannot claim from my Employer's Family Allowance fund, as the benefit is being paid to another country.
Is this a cynical move to save money by my employer?
Am I missing something here?

Here is a section of the reply from my HR department:
First of all, we bring to your attention that your wife should fill out the form E411 from the United Kingdom and send it to the "Caisse des Allocations familiales suisses". Once this form is completed and sent, the Swiss administration will contact the Child Benefit Office in the UK to calculate the differential supplement. It is essential to do it this way, because the required information is from the members of your family at their residency country (as indicated several times in the form).

Once this calculation is done, the Swiss administration will pay the supplement to the Child Benefit Office in the UK. In any case, the allowance to be paid will be to your wife.




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