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Old 09.09.2007, 06:46
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Lump-sum taxation ("forfait tax") of resident aliens

Does anyone have any experience of how this works in practice? I have been advised by my tax adviser not to apply for this status because it is likely to make other country's tax authorities less helpful....however according to what I have read, as it is based upon 'certain living expenses' and thus not likely to be more than 60-80,000 chf tax per annum?
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Old 10.09.2007, 09:21
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Re: Lump-sum taxation ("forfait tax") of resident aliens

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Does anyone have any experience of how this works in practice? I have been advised by my tax adviser not to apply for this status because it is likely to make other country's tax authorities less helpful....however according to what I have read, as it is based upon 'certain living expenses' and thus not likely to be more than 60-80,000 chf tax per annum?
Hello, I would not believe your tax advisor here unless you are travelling regularly back to your country of origin.

This assumes of course that a total tax bill of 60-80K would be acceptable and that you have no or minimal earnings in Switzerland. The tax itself is primarily based on the rentable value of your accommodation.
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Old 10.09.2007, 17:16
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Re: Lump-sum taxation ("forfait tax") of resident aliens

If you are lump-sum taxed, some double taxation treaties may not be invoked anymore by you. This could be a disadvantage of being lump-sum taxed and not ordinarly-taxed.

As mentioned, the tax is based on at least five time the rental value (or the rent payed) of your accomodation. You may only opt for lum-sum taxation, if you do not have any income from employment in Switzerland.
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Old 15.09.2007, 00:39
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Re: Lump-sum taxation ("forfait tax") of resident aliens

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If you are lump-sum taxed, some double taxation treaties may not be invoked anymore by you. This could be a disadvantage of being lump-sum taxed and not ordinarly-taxed.

As mentioned, the tax is based on at least five time the rental value (or the rent payed) of your accomodation. You may only opt for lum-sum taxation, if you do not have any income from employment in Switzerland.
In practise it varies from canton to canton, but basically you are assessed on a notional income. But you do have to not be exercising "lucrative activitiy" in Switzerland.

I agree with Richard, if you are in a bracket to make this relevant and you are unsure of the tax advice you are getting, you probably need another tax advisor.

Daniel
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Old 24.09.2007, 03:14
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Re: Lump-sum taxation ("forfait tax") of resident aliens

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Does anyone have any experience of how this works in practice? I have been advised by my tax adviser not to apply for this status because it is likely to make other country's tax authorities less helpful....however according to what I have read, as it is based upon 'certain living expenses' and thus not likely to be more than 60-80,000 chf tax per annum?

This should answer all your questions. http://www.altenburger.ch/pdf/dbu_taxation.pdf

I'm also here on the Lump-sum Tax program. Best of luck
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Old 25.09.2007, 13:59
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Re: Lump-sum taxation ("forfait tax") of resident aliens

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I'm also here on the Lump-sum Tax program. Best of luck
Same here

Basically your residency here won't persuade the authorities in your home country that you aren't resident there, and as you won't benefit from some of the double tax treaties (for example, you could theoretically be liable to US tax on earnings for days when you conduct any business in the US, although in reality nobody is going to check up....)

But it's a great deal to allow you to live in one of the world's most civilised countries!
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Old 25.09.2007, 15:28
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Re: Lump-sum taxation ("forfait tax") of resident aliens

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Same here

Basically your residency here won't persuade the authorities in your home country that you aren't resident there, and as you won't benefit from some of the double tax treaties (for example, you could theoretically be liable to US tax on earnings for days when you conduct any business in the US, although in reality nobody is going to check up....)

But it's a great deal to allow you to live in one of the world's most civilised countries!

Yeah it's a pleasure not having to worry about yobs and a backward governments. The Lump-Sum tax was a Godsend.

Americans aren't as lucky must renounce their citizenship or they risk being put on a list of tax evaders.

A business partner/friend of mines didn't do this when we both left the country. While on recent shopping trip to the UK he was arrested as soon as he landed.

He just got sent back to America I feel for him.
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Old 26.09.2007, 00:27
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Re: Lump-sum taxation ("forfait tax") of resident aliens

Yikes

There are some benefits to carrying a UK passport then....
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Old 26.09.2007, 08:56
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Re: Lump-sum taxation ("forfait tax") of resident aliens

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This should answer all your questions. http://www.altenburger.ch/pdf/dbu_taxation.pdf

I'm also here on the Lump-sum Tax program. Best of luck
I am intrigued - your reference says you must be 55 - your profile says 26. Is this another of those less than strict Swiss regulations?

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Yeah it's a pleasure not having to worry about yobs and a backward governments. The Lump-Sum tax was a Godsend.

Americans aren't as lucky must renounce their citizenship or they risk being put on a list of tax evaders.

A business partner/friend of mines didn't do this when we both left the country. While on recent shopping trip to the UK he was arrested as soon as he landed.

He just got sent back to America I feel for him.
More intrigued - you're saying that you did renounce your citizenship when leaving the US due to your tax problems (sympathies there, I know that feeling). So what do you do for a passport?
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Old 26.09.2007, 09:51
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Re: Lump-sum taxation ("forfait tax") of resident aliens

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I am intrigued - your reference says you must be 55 - your profile says 26. Is this another of those less than strict Swiss regulations?



More intrigued - you're saying that you did renounce your citizenship when leaving the US due to your tax problems (sympathies there, I know that feeling). So what do you do for a passport?
more intriguing still is the use of the word "yobs" not exactly well known in American vernacular, unless someone would like to enlighten me ??
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Old 26.09.2007, 13:19
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Re: Lump-sum taxation ("forfait tax") of resident aliens

You troll sniffers crack me up .
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Old 26.09.2007, 13:52
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Re: Lump-sum taxation ("forfait tax") of resident aliens

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I am intrigued - your reference says you must be 55 - your profile says 26. Is this another of those less than strict Swiss regulations?


More intrigued - you're saying that you did renounce your citizenship when leaving the US due to your tax problems (sympathies there, I know that feeling). So what do you do for a passport?
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more intriguing still is the use of the word "yobs" not exactly well known in American vernacular, unless someone would like to enlighten me ??
He's obviously living both on and offline under a secret assumed identity in order for said yobs not to catch up with him and make him experience the advantages of the "frequent fliers rendition programme".

Of course, he might as well be a legit semi-pro car racer, what do I know...
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Old 26.09.2007, 14:49
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Re: Lump-sum taxation ("forfait tax") of resident aliens

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I am intrigued - your reference says you must be 55 - your profile says 26. Is this another of those less than strict Swiss regulations?

The 55 year old rule is waved if you are worth a certain amount of money or create jobs for swiss people. I have a holding company owned by my panama private interest foundation run by my swiss employees from Switzerland.

f1 driver Fernando Alonso
f1 Michael Schumacher
Tennis Player Bjorn bork

and countless others people under the age of 55 are living in Switzerland using the Lump-tax. My lawyer said that as many as 2,500 people a year move to Switzerland using the Lump-Sum Tax program since who are under the age of 55.

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More intrigued - you're saying that you did renounce your citizenship when leaving the US due to your tax problems (sympathies there, I know that feeling). So what do you do for a passport?
Yeah most people buy citizenship from other countries before they renounce their citizenship.

I got Dubai,U.A.E citizenship as a gift before I renounced my US citizenship.

My swiss holding company also controls a hedge fund based in Dubai (For zero tax purposes) which has a couple of important people from Dubai as clients.

Also another bonus is that if you have business outside of Switzerland you don't actually have to stay in Switzerland for the whole 180 days a year to maintian your residence permit. You just can't spend more days in any other country then you do in Swizterland.

However if you live on a yacht in another country depending on the canton your permit is from it doesn't count as living outside of Switzerland it's a loophole.

Also if you are worth a certian amount of money and are based in Swizterland for a couple of years if you say to the government I want to become a citizen.

They will gladly give you citizenship if you speak german because they can tax you like a normal citizen. However after you get it you could just bugger off and live in another country so you don't have to pay higher taxes if you don't want.

I have know plans on doing this but a well known american billionaire did it.

Last edited by swissbob; 26.09.2007 at 15:32.
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Old 26.09.2007, 15:18
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Re: Lump-sum taxation ("forfait tax") of resident aliens

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I am intrigued - your reference says you must be 55 - your profile says 26. Is this another of those less than strict Swiss regulations?



More intrigued - you're saying that you did renounce your citizenship when leaving the US due to your tax problems (sympathies there, I know that feeling). So what do you do for a passport?
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more intriguing still is the use of the word "yobs" not exactly well known in American vernacular, unless someone would like to enlighten me ??
1st. Born In America

2nd. When I turned 18 Studied to get my Series 7 & 11 certifications

3rd. Went to work in New York in a major investment bank for 2 1/2 years with the help of my fathers best friend from college who was the head manager of fund of funds their.

4th. He left the company to start up his own forex hedge fund with another friend of his based in London.

5th. I followed him (and the money) to their hedge fund in London.

6th. After years of learning from these guys I decided to start my own forex hedge fund because I could make more money being the boss working for them.

7th. Living in London and partying every night I had met lots of monied individuals from Saudi & the Emirates who were more then eager to throw insane amounts of money at me to invest once I told them I was starting my own fund.


So I think I should be more then able to call some idoits I had the misfortune of running into in London Yobs, Chavs, Knob Heads, Jerkoffs, A-holes. etc. Hope this explains everything.
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Old 26.09.2007, 15:22
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Re: Lump-sum taxation ("forfait tax") of resident aliens

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He's obviously living both on and offline under a secret assumed identity in order for said yobs not to catch up with him and make him experience the advantages of the "frequent fliers rendition programme".

Of course, he might as well be a legit semi-pro car racer, what do I know...

Yes I did have to change name of course when I got my other citizenship. That worked out also as I deal with a lot of middle easterners and having a western name wasn't really a plus for some reason lol.
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Old 26.09.2007, 15:46
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Re: Lump-sum taxation ("forfait tax") of resident aliens

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Hope this explains everything.
doesn't explain how you got to be on lump-sum tax program as non-EU under 55 citizen.


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Yes I did have to change name of course when I got my other citizenship. That worked out also as I deal with a lot of middle easterners and having a western name wasn't really a plus for some reason lol.
doesn't it bother them when someone with middle-eastern name doesn't speak their language (or if so then with "western" accent) ?


geez, quite a busy life. a lot of running around, getting passport, name changing, partying every night, counting down the days allowed to stay in another country,...
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Old 26.09.2007, 15:48
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Re: Lump-sum taxation ("forfait tax") of resident aliens

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Yes I did have to change name of course when I got my other citizenship. That worked out also as I deal with a lot of middle easterners and having a western name wasn't really a plus for some reason lol.
But you're in London now, right? Staying with or assuming the identity of Hummer?
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Old 26.09.2007, 16:00
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Re: Lump-sum taxation ("forfait tax") of resident aliens

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But you're in London now, right? Staying with or assuming the identity of Hummer?
A hummer? No need to insult me.

Yeah I'm not Zurich right now I'm in the UK with the fiance parents trying to sort all the wedding plans out.
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Old 26.09.2007, 16:04
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Re: Lump-sum taxation ("forfait tax") of resident aliens

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Yeah I'm not Zurich right now I'm in the UK with the fiance parents trying to sort all the wedding plans out.
Aren't you afraid they're going to arrest you - or does the UAE passport come with diplomatic immunity attached...
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Old 26.09.2007, 16:22
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Re: Lump-sum taxation ("forfait tax") of resident aliens

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doesn't explain how you got to be on lump-sum tax program as non-EU under 55 citizen.


I explained this in another post.


doesn't it bother them when someone with middle-eastern name doesn't speak their language (or if so then with "western" accent) ?

LOL, their are millions of people all over the world who have middle eastern names who can't even speak arabic or they speak it with an accent since it isn't their first language. Just depends on where they grew up.

Even though I'm not into religion since I'm mixed raced I do look like someone born in the middle east so I fit right in over their.


geez, quite a busy life. a lot of running around, getting passport, name changing, partying every night, counting down the days allowed to stay in another country,...
Not to much running around. Getting the citizenship/passport required no effort what so ever. As I said it was a gift.

The partying was stopped the moment I became the boss. 16 hour work days takes that out of you. When I get home I watch some football when it's on, eat dinner, chat with the fiance about her day, then sleep & wake up and repeat the same thing.
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