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  #21  
Old 07.08.2011, 11:41
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Re: US downgraded

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.... when the wost complications came from the Tea Party There shouldn't have been a deal at all. Typically the debt ceiling is raised without so much drama.
Ignoring the problem won't make it go away. America has a basic flaw & that is the government is allowed to spend more than they take in. Citizens control (vote) that they want less spending, but still government keeps printing more money and making new wealth redistribution programs. Very unpopular....I am for a new constitutional amendment that requires a balanced budget or forces mandatory reductions to get there. This is a crazy train & needs to stop.

Ps. Under Clinton the government was furloughed twice for the same reason...when the Parties are not speaking this is the only tool left to force a compromise. That comes down to leadership....or lack thereof ( on both sides IMHO ).
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Old 07.08.2011, 11:54
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Re: US downgraded

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Most Americans seem blissfully unaware of their of their currency tanking.
...or maybe blissfully aware of it. A low USD is better for exports, increases tourism to the US, etc. But of course it's a double edge sword, as purchasing power abroad goes down.

I think generally, there needs to be some balance between currencies, or things will get too far out of wack. I guess it will sort itsself out eventually. Whenever that will be, who knows...
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  #23  
Old 07.08.2011, 12:28
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Re: US downgraded

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Ps. Under Clinton the government was furloughed twice for the same reason...when the Parties are not speaking this is the only tool left to force a compromise. That comes down to leadership....or lack thereof ( on both sides IMHO ).
As evidenced by the fact that extending the debt limit was automatically done when Bush was presiding over a friendly Republican Congress and increasing debt like a mad fool. Where were their concerns then?
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  #24  
Old 07.08.2011, 12:29
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Re: US downgraded

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Is the dollar tanking? Look at this link, where I compare the dollar to every major currency I can think of:

http://www.google.com//finance?chdnp...:USDEUR&ntsp=0

strange how the CHF is an outlier, yes? Obviously, the dollar is depreciating, but what we uniquely see is that CHF is rising versus everyone, and more rapidly than everyone. In other words, it only appears to tank to those of us holding CHFs.

The only way an american would see it is as tanking being being in Switzerland. Granted gas prices are up, but they are still far cheaper than the rest of the world, and they go up for a lot of non-currency-based reasons, too. I don't think most Americans would connect $4 gas to weak currency, and I'm not even sure that's the biggest reason.
And, yet, you haven't seen prices drop in Switzerland....weird, huh?
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Old 07.08.2011, 12:34
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Re: US downgraded

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And, yet, you haven't seen prices drop in Switzerland....weird, huh?
But did you see price rises in CH 10 years ago when the $ was strong? Come to think of it most prices are pretty much the same as when I arrived in 1994.
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  #26  
Old 07.08.2011, 12:53
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Re: US downgraded

I read there was a 2 trillion dollar arithmetic error by s&p. Not sure we can trust a financial credit rating agency that can't do basic arithmetic.

The US's national debt as a percentage of GDP isn't that high compared to other countries and considering these credit rating agencies would give AAA rating to sub prime mortgages based on 'opinion' I'm not sure much should be read into this.

It's a classic case of 'A bank is a place that will lend you money if you prove that you don’t need it.' the US is doing badly....so S&P are going to downgrade it and make it even more hard for them to get out of the rut
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  #27  
Old 07.08.2011, 14:14
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Re: US downgraded

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I read there was a 2 trillion dollar arithmetic error by s&p. Not sure we can trust a financial credit rating agency that can't do basic arithmetic.
Porsch, you think the best reason not to be able to trust S&P is because of thier arithmetic?
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  #28  
Old 07.08.2011, 15:03
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Re: US downgraded

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Porsch, you think the best reason not to be able to trust S&P is because of thier arithmetic?
I'd say it's their past history financial chicanery that's most damning.....
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Old 07.08.2011, 15:38
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Re: US downgraded

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I read there was a 2 trillion dollar arithmetic error by s&p. Not sure we can trust a financial credit rating agency that can't do basic arithmetic.

The US's national debt as a percentage of GDP isn't that high compared to other countries and considering these credit rating agencies would give AAA rating to sub prime mortgages based on 'opinion' I'm not sure much should be read into this.

It's a classic case of 'A bank is a place that will lend you money if you prove that you don’t need it.' the US is doing badly....so S&P are going to downgrade it and make it even more hard for them to get out of the rut
True though this may be - is there really anyone who would argue that the US government is in strong control of it's finances?
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  #30  
Old 07.08.2011, 15:50
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Re: US downgraded

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As evidenced by the fact that extending the debt limit was automatically done when Bush was presiding over a friendly Republican Congress and increasing debt like a mad fool. Where were their concerns then?

Yes, but he was able to do it without raising taxes....I am not taking sides, but trying to point out the system is completely out of control. We need to try a different approach because the current one is not working.


Under Clinton the US actually made good progress towards a program that would reduce the deficit. Seems we forget financial discipline when the going gets tough ...
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  #31  
Old 07.08.2011, 16:12
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Re: US downgraded

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Yes, but he was able to do it without raising taxes....
LOL!

He did not do it without raising taxes - he did it precisely to give tax presents to his rich voters. I do not understand why the Americans are so fact-resistant: The Bush tax cuts caused more debt than the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan combined!

So if you do not dare to take these cuts back - you do not fix the problem. End of story. Saying that Obama "raises the taxes" if he only wants to take the unnatural and unhealthy cuts back Bush introduced is not exactly a logical argument.

But I don't care anymore, I sold all US and dollar based positions I had already in 2010.

The downgrade was only logical - you do not only rate the current debt rate of a country or a company, but also it's forecasts and the ability of the management team. The presidential elections are still quite far away but as it seems will the US politics be in "election mode" longer and longer - effecting the ability to react and manage the country. So the outlook is that in the next year nothing will improve as there are plenty of people who have an active interest in the opposite to get a benefit in the elections. I have hardly ever seen a minority as the tea party forcing their way through as brutally as now - at least not in a democracy.

So the downgrade was due - but as always do people and especially politicians prefer to trash the agency than discussing the problem. It's not S&Ps fault either that Greece has trash status...
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  #32  
Old 07.08.2011, 18:19
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Re: US downgraded

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Well if you live in USA & your salary is the same & the things you buy are the same price then what is there to be aware of?
Not a lot... except imports.
and the US imports pretty much everything nowadays.

the only reason prices haven't shot up already is that companies are sh1t-scared of losing market share in their largest market, and have been absorbing most of the cost increases.. but that can only go on for so long. sooner or later everything from cotton socks to flat screen TV's will have to start getting more expensive...
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  #33  
Old 07.08.2011, 18:47
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Re: US downgraded

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Porsch, you think the best reason not to be able to trust S&P is because of thier arithmetic?
I never said it's the best reason...it is a reason though
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Old 07.08.2011, 18:48
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Re: US downgraded

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LOL!

He did not do it without raising taxes - he did it precisely to give tax presents to his rich voters. I do not understand why the Americans are so fact-resistant: The Bush tax cuts caused more debt than the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan combined!

So if you do not dare to take these cuts back - you do not fix the problem. End of story. Saying that Obama "raises the taxes" if he only wants to take the unnatural and unhealthy cuts back Bush introduced is not exactly a logical argument.

But I don't care anymore, I sold all US and dollar based positions I had already in 2010.

The downgrade was only logical - you do not only rate the current debt rate of a country or a company, but also it's forecasts and the ability of the management team. The presidential elections are still quite far away but as it seems will the US politics be in "election mode" longer and longer - effecting the ability to react and manage the country. So the outlook is that in the next year nothing will improve as there are plenty of people who have an active interest in the opposite to get a benefit in the elections. I have hardly ever seen a minority as the tea party forcing their way through as brutally as now - at least not in a democracy.

So the downgrade was due - but as always do people and especially politicians prefer to trash the agency than discussing the problem. It's not S&Ps fault either that Greece has trash status...
The US is now so screwed, I don't even know where to begin. I was entertaining the though of going back to the US but with the debt ceiling circus, nut less Obama and the fact that next year is another election year, I feel nothing but pity for those without work in the US and those about to lose work in the US (and elsewhere) as I think this has all the potential to be one incredible ride downward. (And is anyone as outraged as I am about Obama? I mean, can I have a WTF and a JFC? ....)

I was watching the local news while visiting my in-laws recently, and for some reason there was an interview of some folks from St. Charles, MO of all places talking about how they didn't want to raise taxes while failing to see the irony in the fact that both of them were US postal service retirees. It's just like the myth that persists that Bush didn't raise taxes (or Reagan for that matter), folks consume services paid or subsidized by public money that they vote to cut out or don't want to supplement.

One of these days, New England should give the rest of the country the finger and secede from the US lower 48. Call it...Chowdahstan. Leave all the yahoos in the heartland to their own ignorance.
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  #35  
Old 07.08.2011, 19:17
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Re: US downgraded

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The US is now so screwed, I don't even know where to begin.

One of these days, New England should give the rest of the country the finger and secede from the US lower 48. Call it...Chowdahstan. Leave all the yahoos in the heartland to their own ignorance.
Really, I don't know where to begin.
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  #36  
Old 07.08.2011, 19:19
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Re: US downgraded

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Yes, but he was able to do it without raising taxes....I am not taking sides, but trying to point out the system is completely out of control. We need to try a different approach because the current one is not working.

Under Clinton the US actually made good progress towards a program that would reduce the deficit. Seems we forget financial discipline when the going gets tough ...
Yes, increasing spending while decreasing revenue through tax cuts. Pure genius. :rofl
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  #37  
Old 07.08.2011, 19:33
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Re: US downgraded

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Really, I don't know where to begin.
Oh, entertain me. It's Sunday, I'm doing laundry having just come off a plane and I'm bored. You disagree?
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  #38  
Old 16.08.2011, 23:35
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Re: US downgraded

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Invest...&asset=&ccode=


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Eleven days after lowering the credit rating on the U.S. for the first time, Standard & Poor’s is suffering a downgrade among global investors as American bonds are proving world beaters -- undermining S&P’s mathematical assumptions -- and prompting disbelief among political scientists months after the company upgraded China because of the stability fostered by Communist Party rule.
Couldn't have happened to a nicer bunch.
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