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Old 11.08.2011, 13:41
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net income from gross in Vaud

hello,
to explain my situation - currently I am IT contracting in Vaud canton, and along the way came nice offer of perm position in banking sector in Geneva, 130k base salary (13 months) + bonuses of unknown size (but let's count just with base salary, it will not be big). Contracting is being quite generous so I didn't do much taxes exploration. But when I entered some data for this position into webs like http://www.lohncomputer.ch or comparis.ch I got shocked. I was expecting that for these data:
- 30 years old
- single, no children
- no church
I would be left with roughly 75% of my gross income. Friend of mine in Zurich with similar situation (few years older, 110k salary) told me he is getting 77-78% of gross income to his account. But result is roughly 68% The only difference is in withholding tax.
What it means? That 130k job in Geneva (living in Vaud) gives little bit less than 120k job in Zurich. Comparing just net incomes of course, costs of living makes this difference even bigger. Getting married with my girlfriend would make things slightly better, but in both places and difference would remain. Of course that is not good a reason to do it
Is this real? Can You please confirm this?
I am having a possibility of contract prolongation, but it is per 2 months, as company is unsure about its economic results in following months. And when trouble comes, (relatively) expensive contractors will be fired first, that's without question.
Now what would You do? Risk and continue high earning position that can end anytime or go for something less paid, but relatively secure? Of course perm-position security might be an illusion these days...
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Old 11.08.2011, 14:00
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Re: net income from gross in Vaud

I used internet, but differences seems too big to believe. There is nothing special in Vaud to justify almost double taxation compared to Zurich. It is a nice place to live, but there are many similar in Switzerland. If this is how You imagine helping others, then please don't help me, and let others share their opinions.
And trust me, few months of contracting here does not make You rich person. 1 Year before I was earning a mere fraction of current salary back home. I bet I am poorer than You, but I feel no need to be envious about that.
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Old 11.08.2011, 15:21
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Re: net income from gross in Vaud

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I receive social payments, so no. You are now earning twice the national average wage. Go and see an accountant you greedy ...
I feel sorry for You in many ways. So many posts on this forum, and still not understanding sole purpose of it...
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  #4  
Old 11.08.2011, 16:39
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Re: net income from gross in Vaud

yes taxes vary quit a bit. there is a form circulating somewhere which gives you all the taxes in CH .
and if im not mistaken, the more you earn the more tax you pay....

good luck with it! and congrats on the offer!!!
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Old 11.08.2011, 17:01
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Re: net income from gross in Vaud

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yes taxes vary quit a bit. there is a form circulating somewhere which gives you all the taxes in CH .
and if im not mistaken, the more you earn the more tax you pay....

good luck with it! and congrats on the offer!!!
Thank You. I could clearly see from calculators that % of taxes rises with salary. Just the rise in places like Vaud or Geneva is much steeper comapred to Zurich for example. I never thought that taxes can vary so much, coming from places where I had constant tax no matter which part of country I lived in. I guess one of the darker aspects of having strong & independent cantons, Vaud is a big spender, although I cannot see where the money is going. Definitely not into improving bureaucracy efficiency like tax returns
Anyway I accepted the offer, partly because bank was one of few employees not requiring french (which I don't speak yet but intend to learn hard), partly because I wanted to settle here with my GF. At the end, money are not all in life, me thinks
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Old 12.08.2011, 10:03
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Re: net income from gross in Vaud

Hello,
one more question - well known calculator
http://www.estv2.admin.ch/e/dienstle...uerrechner.htm
is showing very different figures for Vaud for 2010. For 130k, it shows at the end Total tax burden - around 28300 francs, and total deductions around 14000 francs.
The form is supposed to be simple but I don't get it. Which figures should I deduct to get net income? And i thought that with this income I would pay tax at source...
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Old 12.08.2011, 15:10
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Re: net income from gross in Vaud

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The sole purpose of this forum is not to help rich lazy buggers like you. The purpose of this forum is to help people. Nearly all my 3000 posts do that. I advised you in a roundabout way to go to an accountant. So why don't you?

I am not helping you because you are still complaining about paying too much tax, yet you earn twice the average Swiss salary. Many Swiss people here have to support families on half your salary, and even less. I expect you know that in February 2012 there will begin a final calculation, and then you can make sure you haven't been cheated out of your income.
what is the cutoff point then where you are allowed to ask questions on this forum, is it the swiss national average salary ? or a bit more ? bit less ? I always thought it was here to help people regardless of how much they earn.

This gentleman could have worked extremely hard to get to where he is today. Because you have a thing against rich people does not mean he cannot ask questions on this forum.

To the poster, the tax rate sounds about right for your earning level. Taxes are higher in the swiss romande region than zurich.
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Old 12.08.2011, 17:10
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Re: net income from gross in Vaud

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what is the cutoff point then where you are allowed to ask questions on this forum, is it the swiss national average salary ? or a bit more ? bit less ? I always thought it was here to help people regardless of how much they earn.

This gentleman could have worked extremely hard to get to where he is today. Because you have a thing against rich people does not mean he cannot ask questions on this forum.

To the poster, the tax rate sounds about right for your earning level. Taxes are higher in the swiss romande region than zurich.

Thank You for advice, it seems internet calculators are more or less correct for my situation.
As for me - within last 7 years, I made my salary about 20-fold bigger compared to my initial salary right after university (all within IT), mainly because I was willing to do decisions that others around me were afraid to do / too lazy to do. I come from very poor family for western standard, back home in Slovakia during socialist/communist era intelligence was paid significantly less than manual laborers. But I guess people like Ittigen are just spoiled ... hmm I will not walk same path as he does and will not descend to same level of... pathetic envious behavior. You do quick judging without knowing me, but You know that... why?
One thing for You, Ittigen - please leave my thread alone, if this is how You imagine helping me, than You have quite twisted reality perception. But somebody sitting in front of computer on welfare in country like Switzerland must be quite a different type of person compared to me. I am not even entitled to welfare because of my L permit, but I contributed probably far more compared to You. But I guess that's OK and one more reason to hate me, right?
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Old 12.08.2011, 21:19
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Re: net income from gross in Vaud

Did you miss the sticky?

Taxes - Advisors/Accountants / Cantonal Offices / ZH Tax forms / Expat US Taxes

You could try and understand the other side of the situation as well saiya-jin. It's considered rude to talk about your salary in base figures like that. You might not think you are rubbing it in people's faces but a lot of people will think other wise. It's true you do earn a lot more than the average as Ittigen pointed out, and I don't see any evidence of hatred towards you so not too sure where you're getting that from . You pretty much bought this kind of reaction upon yourself in my opinion.
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  #10  
Old 12.08.2011, 22:20
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Re: net income from gross in Vaud

Oh and another "Word to the wise" as we say in English. Rich people often like to give money to the not so well off, the homeless, the drug addicts etc.
They do this by electing to pay Church Tax, which doesn't pay much for the church buildings, but more for the clergy. There is a lot of money left over and this is distributed mainly to Swiss charities. You might want to change your mind about your earlier decision not to pay church tax.
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Old 12.08.2011, 23:55
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Re: net income from gross in Vaud

well what to say... I'll try to answer more points.

- why not taking tax advisor? When I have a problem, I always try to do research, ask people etc. Not just run to nearest guy who is supposed to help me for fat commission. I would feel stupid and useless. Call it however you like, it's my way, and this forum is exactly for people like me. Searching for answers. Any answers. To call advisors in arms for such a simple question - maybe it's your way of solving things, not mine. Not needed it whole life, why now?

- stating salary - are you joking, sir? I see tons of threads "is XXX k enough to live in geneva/zurich/...". Threads about buying Porsches, real estates worth millions. This is OK, Mr. Ittigen is not insulting these people, or suggesting just expensive services without any real help. But I write something specific, and here he comes. Sorry but to get answer to my questions, I had to state exact sum of income. Or please suggest any other way to get precise info of tax and social deductions of specific income in specific canton. I could not believe tax calculators as stated before, that was the reason of writing here. If somebody feels like he wants this kind of money, be my guest. It's open market, and I got plenty of similar offers in last months which I refused. If You are good, and work hard, you can earn same, or more.

- being NOT insulted - "Go and see an accountant you greedy ... ", "The sole purpose of this forum is not to help rich lazy buggers like you." . If somebody without knowing a bit about me treats me like that, it is hostile approach from my point of view. I never treat unknown people like that. Would You like if I commented Your posts in similar way? I cannot imagine so...

I have great respect for people who achieve something great in their life, and this might be far from monetary/wealth success. Well like raising 4 children as mentioned, although I would not point having good jobs as greatest achievement. I am 30 and life is great. More to learn than learned. But when meeting somebody half of my age, I feel no arrogance towards him, no matter how big life experience difference is.

And about charity - please do not suggest me Your values, sir. I am not pushing mine either. I am a non believer by my decision, not by monetary convenience. Charity is a long subject on its own, and I don't want to discuss it here and now, it's way off topic here. Let's just state I don't share Your point of view, but I feel no need to persuade You about it.

To sum it up - You lost Your cool, man, probably long before this thread. Not caring for reasons, but attitude "I was born long time before Your father, kiddo, so listen to my wisdom" is not OK for me, not even from older people.You are probably younger that my father, and thank god (in which I don't believe) that he is the person he is. Way above You, sir.

--------------
I would like to ask Ops to close this thread, there will be probably no more informational value in it. Just moaning about those evil rich people...
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  #12  
Old 13.08.2011, 00:03
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Re: net income from gross in Vaud

Well you don't have to take any advice, it was offered freely. But don't come back and complain when things don't work out the way you expect them to.

Previous threads are listed below, at the bottom of the page.



Payroll taxing at an amount greater than gross income. KeinFranzösischEmployment112.07.2011 09:56
gross - net income for EPFL structuralFinance/banking/taxation014.03.2011 07:26
Vaud net income calculation dabutimanFinance/banking/taxation510.12.2009 22:39
Gross vs Net Rent? aibanezHousing in general101.10.2008 23:16
Gross/Net in Basel
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Old 13.08.2011, 07:41
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Re: net income from gross in Vaud

That is something useful, thanx. Just last drop - there are 2 of us, not married, and I am the only earner. So at the end my (our) income is nothing special, at least not in bigger cities. But we managed so far, with very little expenses and having great time here, so I guess nothing to worry about.
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Old 13.08.2011, 10:09
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Re: net income from gross in Vaud

In pictures:
(Some graphs showing) Cantonal differences in tax rates

Personally I find it amazing that people move countries without doing research on basic things like how the tax system works!
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Old 13.08.2011, 18:19
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Re: net income from gross in Vaud

Well, I did. Not very detailed, but initially heading for Zurich, I did explore possibilities there. That's also why I compare Vaud to Zurich. At the end I ended up in Vaud. What am I not used to is having differences WITHIN one country based on place I live. That is very uncommon concept to me. I knew holy trinity tax (federal+cantonal+commune), but as stated before - asking almost twice as much in Vaud compared to Zurich is comparable to robbery in my book. Not mentioning hell searching for scarce accomodation, its prices etc. Swiss colleague stated that Vaud canton is not famous for its balanced and efficient budgeting, but I don't follow these local news, so I cannot comment on that.
But being a nature & mountain lover, I appreciate country around very much. At least in good weather
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Old 14.08.2011, 14:06
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I did compare Aargau and Vaud and the tax difference is around 2% percent points. Aargau is close to Zurich tax-wise.
Also, the tax rate is steeply progressive, so a 130k salary will be taxed a lot more than a 100k one - for a single income family with kids the tax rate might like 5% and 10% respectively.
Marry your fiancée, live cheaply far in the mountains and you'll save more in Westschweiz eventually.
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Old 14.08.2011, 18:55
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Re: net income from gross in Vaud

now that's an advice!
Well to be honest, I was thinking about that for a longer time. Maybe it's not nice to say, but I must admit - this adds another reason to decision already made.
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Old 14.08.2011, 19:13
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Re: net income from gross in Vaud

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. Aargau is close to Zurich tax-wise.
.
Thats totally incorrect Aargau Kanton tax is very much higher than ZH. Aargau / BS / Bern / VD pretty much a wash when I last looked assuming 85k net after pension & social costs .
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