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  #21  
Old 22.08.2011, 15:17
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Re: Negotiating waiver of mortgage penalties

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Well - the discussion was all about that and it was a clear statement in the contract.

OK - Mr Macho - so if I said, I want the house price to be CHF5000 higher to buy it, is that better than saying "If I can make this go away, neither of us pay anything?"
people are irrational/emotional when it comes to house price purchases. easier just to adjust through the purchase price and avoid any 'explanations' or negotiations.
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  #22  
Old 22.08.2011, 16:12
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Re: Negotiating waiver of mortgage penalties

Your mortgage charges are irrelevant and do not alter the value of the house.

If you simply said half of charges and then lumped your mortgage penalty into that charge then that is unreasonable.

But on the other hand if you explained this too them in advance and they still think the house is worth the extra money then fair enough, that's up to them.

I think they would have upped the offer if it was within their budget and you just said it's £7.5K more than you offered... still want it, yes or no?
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  #23  
Old 22.08.2011, 16:15
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Re: Negotiating waiver of mortgage penalties

from my point of view I get the house details and if its up for what I think its worth then I'll take a look, and the maybe make an offer, so if the seller then comes back asking for more I tell them where to go, I was only looking at it because I thought it was worth the money (or less), unless somethings changed, like you added a hottub in the mean time (for example) then no can do.

why advertise it for x if your where really after x+10%?? it just wastes everyone time

Last edited by bigblue2; 22.08.2011 at 16:46.
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  #24  
Old 22.08.2011, 16:41
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Re: Negotiating waiver of mortgage penalties

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why advertise it for x if your where really after x-10%?? it just wastes everyone time
Umm. Because that's a classic sales tactic. The big problem is to get people interested in a sale (be it a house, car, or an item in a shop). With a house, you have to try and sell it based on a couple of photos and a description. Once you are in the house itself, a seller will bank (pardon the pun) on any emotional attachment you may have made, so "an extra 10%" will not be noticed.

Once you have interest, as a seller, you can push the price up once you have the initial buyer's attention.

I'm also not sure that I agree with your comment that you price something as worth it or slightly less. When I look at a house I look at the value +/- X% so I will have a little spare in the budget upwards (as well as downwards, obviously). Who really, apart from the British, buys houses at 110% of what they can afford?*

Go in at around 80-90% of what you can afford and have a little in reserve.

*That's a rhetorical question - you don't really need to answer it
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  #25  
Old 22.08.2011, 16:45
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Re: Negotiating waiver of mortgage penalties

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Umm. Because that's a classic sales tactic. The big problem is to get people interested in a sale (be it a house, car, or an item in a shop). With a house, you have to try and sell it based on a couple of photos and a description. Once you are in the house itself, a seller will bank (pardon the pun) on any emotional attachment you may have made, so "an extra 10%" will not be noticed.

Once you have interest, as a seller, you can push the price up once you have the initial buyer's attention.

I'm also not sure that I agree with your comment that you price something as worth it or slightly less. When I look at a house I look at the value +/- X% so I will have a little spare in the budget upwards (as well as downwards, obviously). Who really, apart from the British, buys houses at 110% of what they can afford?*

Go in at around 80-90% of what you can afford and have a little in reserve.

*That's a rhetorical question - you don't really need to answer it
well all it does to me is piss me off, must be a cultural thing, but if someone tried that with me I'd just walk away, it was up for x, I offered x that's it, take it or leave it. having a feeling of the old owners shafting you isn't an ideal way to start your life in a new place.
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  #26  
Old 22.08.2011, 18:22
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Re: Negotiating waiver of mortgage penalties

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Your mortgage charges are irrelevant and do not alter the value of the house.

If you simply said half of charges and then lumped your mortgage penalty into that charge then that is unreasonable.

But on the other hand if you explained this too them in advance and they still think the house is worth the extra money then fair enough, that's up to them.

I think they would have upped the offer if it was within their budget and you just said it's £7.5K more than you offered... still want it, yes or no?
It was neither. It is common here for the residual mortgage to remain with the house. I explained in the middle of the process (see below) that if some of the people did not want to do that, then I would need to pay a penalty on the mortgage and that their offer needed to be higher than somebody who DID need the mortgage because that was the price (net of charges) that I would ultimately compare.

As my moral compass is being called into question , remember that I settled on 50% of the charge, not 100%.

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well all it does to me is piss me off, must be a cultural thing, but if someone tried that with me I'd just walk away, it was up for x, I offered x that's it, take it or leave it. having a feeling of the old owners shafting you isn't an ideal way to start your life in a new place.
Again....the important detail is the process (happy to give more details) - which was run by the Swiss agent. It went on the market at price x and after several days - we had 6 or 7 people interested at the market price. The agent then called me and said that he thought that to sort them out he should ask for more - sort of open bids. I agreed.

Then, three came back with identical higher offers - but some wanted the mortgage to be carried over to them, some didn't.

So to close the process - I said - ok, go back to the three of them and say that they need to provide a fixed and final offer and those that did NOT want to carry the mortgage needed to build into the offer their willingness to pay the resultant charges - not as a way of screwing or cheating them, but merely as a way of comparing "side by side".

The one that bid most didn't want the mortgage so agreed to pay the penalty.

And why not just build it in - because it seems fairer to me (despite some of you thinking I'm a cheat) to be very open with them and say....listen, if I manage to reduce it, we'll share in that good fortune because that is what made the fight "fair" in the bidding process.

I think that if I explained it properly, it should feel more reasonable than maybe the headline appears. I hope so at least
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  #27  
Old 22.08.2011, 18:23
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Re: Negotiating waiver of mortgage penalties

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it was up for x, I offered x that's it, take it or leave it. having a feeling of the old owners shafting you isn't an ideal way to start your life in a new place.
What if ten people offered x? You wouldn't try to see who wanted to pay x + a bit??
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  #28  
Old 22.08.2011, 18:26
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Re: Negotiating waiver of mortgage penalties

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What if ten people offered x? You wouldn't try to see who wanted to pay x + a bit??

personally, no, I wouldn't want it to happen to me, so wouldn't do it to others, fully understand why people do this, not meaning to offened anyone

eta

I'd go with the person who best fitted my plans, or was a cash buyer, or was going to give me the least grief, if thats all the same person then bonus
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  #29  
Old 22.08.2011, 18:28
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Re: Negotiating waiver of mortgage penalties

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personally, no, I wouldn't want it to happen to me, so wouldn't do it to others, fully understand why people do this, not meaning to offened anyone
Neither would I, but the game is different here - the whole closed bids thing to me is very , but clearly it is accepted as the norm.
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  #30  
Old 22.08.2011, 18:36
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Re: Negotiating waiver of mortgage penalties

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personally, no, I wouldn't want it to happen to me, so wouldn't do it to others, fully understand why people do this, not meaning to offened anyone

eta

I'd go with the person who best fitted my plans, or was a cash buyer, or was going to give me the least grief, if thats all the same person then bonus
To be honest....although we kind of got a bit off-topic (it is one of the endearing aspects of EF that when you ask "how can I do this?" 75% of the answers are "you shouldn't do it like that" ).....the process here is a little odd.....the idea of the asked-for price being only a guide and if there is lots of interest, they bid it up. However, they probably think it odd that in the UK, you never get the asking price and always ask for 10% more!

I also learned that estate agents aren't to be trusted here either....there were several details that I left out that I was unhappy with.

Anyway....I genuinely feel I have very strong ethics and morals in general....so I can sleep at night knowing that the process was totally open, the buyers got the house they want at a price they are happy with and IF ANYBODY ACTUALLY HELPS ME ANSWER THE FREAKIN' QUESTION I ASKED they might even get it a bit lower
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  #31  
Old 23.08.2011, 09:05
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Re: Negotiating waiver of mortgage penalties

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Neither would I, but the game is different here - the whole closed bids thing to me is very , but clearly it is accepted as the norm.
Seems a bit like the system in Scotland. "Offers over xxx" and closed bids.




Probably. I get all my property law expertise from Homes Under the Hammer and Location, Location, Location.
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  #32  
Old 23.08.2011, 09:26
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Re: Negotiating waiver of mortgage penalties

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<snip> IF ANYBODY ACTUALLY HELPS ME ANSWER THE FREAKIN' QUESTION I ASKED they might even get it a bit lower


OMG! You mean there's a point to this thread?
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  #33  
Old 23.08.2011, 14:52
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Re: Negotiating waiver of mortgage penalties

(In the style of the Two Ronnies... )

It started with me asking for advice for bankers, and ended with me having my ethics questioned by......oh, never mind
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Old 08.09.2011, 17:40
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Re: Negotiating waiver of mortgage penalties

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We sold our house and our current bank (CS) didn't want to mortgage us to the same level as our new bank (Valiant) so we switched mortgage providers.
In essence you decided to do two things:

1. sell your house despite being in a contract to pay a mortgage
2. switch mortgage providers on your new property

This is not CS fault. Can Valiant not help with accomodating/porting the CS existing mortgage into their financing arrangements. As soon as you are no longer subject to CS penalties, you move all to Valiant?
(Or remortgage with Valiant to pay off CS including the penalty for now).

Based on my experience this morning on my 4 year old mortgage renewal in a year, the better rates have made the banks less flexible in my opinion for existing mortgage holders if you're not yet out of "fix"/obligation.

Remember Valiant will want the Prommissory note from CS, which they'll only release on completion, this could put your Valiant funds at risk....

At the end of the day you signed for the deal. Good luck negotiating.
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  #35  
Old 08.09.2011, 17:42
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Re: Negotiating waiver of mortgage penalties

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(In the style of the Two Ronnies... )

It started with me asking for advice for bankers, and ended with me having my ethics questioned by......oh, never mind
What do you expect from bailout beggars?
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  #36  
Old 11.11.2011, 15:25
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Re: Negotiating waiver of mortgage penalties

Sounds like you were lucky we just got our penalty fee and it is 100k CHF.

Makes you sick to the stomach

To be honest I am not sure how it can be called a penalty fee it is the same as paying the mortgage for the remaining term of the loan
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  #37  
Old 11.11.2011, 15:44
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Re: Negotiating waiver of mortgage penalties

What's the name of this penalty fee in German? So that I know what to watch for...
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