Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Help & tips > Finance/banking/taxation  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 29.08.2011, 16:13
ommthree's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Zürich
Posts: 275
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 108 Times in 67 Posts
ommthree has made some interesting contributions
Quellensteuer (tax deducted at source) on bonus

Hi Everyone,

I just had a nasty shock on my payslip and my firm's accountants are being no help at all. I'd be really grateful if anyone could advise me on this.

-I got a bonus this month, which is about the same as my normal monthly income.
-As a result my tax rate (quellensteuer) almost doubled as a percentage, applied to both my normal salary and my bonus
-Obviously I'm being charged tax as though that were my new monthly income
-This results in a loss of several thousand francs that I can ill afford

Is there anything that can be done? Can I claim the tax back at the end of the year? The firm accountant says that it's impossible and that the bonus should have been spread out over the year to prevent the problem, but I find that quite hard to believe.

Thanks very much in advance for your help,
Owen.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 29.08.2011, 16:20
Phil_MCR's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Basel
Posts: 14,189
Groaned at 275 Times in 181 Posts
Thanked 17,504 Times in 7,404 Posts
Phil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond reputePhil_MCR has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Quellensteuer (tax deducted at source) on bonus

Quote:
View Post
Hi Everyone,

I just had a nasty shock on my payslip and my firm's accountants are being no help at all. I'd be really grateful if anyone could advise me on this.

-I got a bonus this month, which is about the same as my normal monthly income.
-As a result my tax rate (quellensteuer) almost doubled as a percentage, applied to both my normal salary and my bonus
-Obviously I'm being charged tax as though that were my new monthly income
-This results in a loss of several thousand francs that I can ill afford

Is there anything that can be done? Can I claim the tax back at the end of the year? The firm accountant says that it's impossible and that the bonus should have been spread out over the year to prevent the problem, but I find that quite hard to believe.

Thanks very much in advance for your help,
Owen.
if you earn over 120k, then you will file the tax return and reclaim the difference anyway.

it's much better to spread the bonus over the 12 months due to this tax problem.

Last edited by Phil_MCR; 29.08.2011 at 17:12.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank Phil_MCR for this useful post:
  #3  
Old 29.08.2011, 16:23
ommthree's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Zürich
Posts: 275
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 108 Times in 67 Posts
ommthree has made some interesting contributions
Re: Quellensteuer (tax deducted at source) on bonus

Thanks.

I earn less than 120k unfortunately, so no tax return.

If only someone at my firm had bothered to check these things out!
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 29.08.2011, 16:27
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Winterthur
Posts: 199
Groaned at 8 Times in 4 Posts
Thanked 219 Times in 81 Posts
AhYesBut has an excellent reputationAhYesBut has an excellent reputationAhYesBut has an excellent reputationAhYesBut has an excellent reputation
Re: Quellensteuer (tax deducted at source) on bonus

I think you can volunteer to do one anyway. when you think about it, it makes no difference: the Quellensteuer is calculated monthly and will average out as though you have received your bonus monthly. The only difference is that you you don´t have the use of that money earlier in the year if you only get it at the end. Additionally you will miss the bonus-busting parties that (used to) occur at bonus payout time....

AYB
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank AhYesBut for this useful post:
  #5  
Old 29.08.2011, 16:31
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Quellensteuer (tax deducted at source) on bonus

Unfortunately, and you probably don't want to hear this, but (IIRC) quellensteuer tax rate is a "trap-door", i.e. once it "lifts", it stays at that higher rate for the rest of the year

Getting in touch with a non-company treuhand for a personal consultation might be well worth the investment...
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank for this useful post:
  #6  
Old 29.08.2011, 16:33
ommthree's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Zürich
Posts: 275
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 108 Times in 67 Posts
ommthree has made some interesting contributions
Re: Quellensteuer (tax deducted at source) on bonus

(To AhYesBut)

Thanks, but that's not quite right.

The percentage tax that I paid doubled for this one month, so I pay 3.5k tax this month. If it were paid out over twelve months (say) then it would be a less than 10% increase in the monthly income, and hence not much change in the tax rate.

Last edited by ommthree; 29.08.2011 at 16:35. Reason: Clarify who I was speaking to.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 29.08.2011, 16:35
The_Love_Doctor's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Zugerberg, Zug
Posts: 3,274
Groaned at 77 Times in 60 Posts
Thanked 3,697 Times in 1,745 Posts
The_Love_Doctor has a reputation beyond reputeThe_Love_Doctor has a reputation beyond reputeThe_Love_Doctor has a reputation beyond reputeThe_Love_Doctor has a reputation beyond reputeThe_Love_Doctor has a reputation beyond reputeThe_Love_Doctor has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Quellensteuer (tax deducted at source) on bonus

Quote:
View Post
it makes no difference: the Quellensteuer is calculated monthly and will average out as though you have received your bonus monthly.
Makes a small difference of course as the tax rate if the bonus was spread out over the 12 months would not rise by enough to be equals to the equivalent rate applied to the payment added to the normal monthly wage.

I would say the difference is in the hundreds of francs rather than thousands of franks.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank The_Love_Doctor for this useful post:
  #8  
Old 29.08.2011, 16:36
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Winterthur
Posts: 199
Groaned at 8 Times in 4 Posts
Thanked 219 Times in 81 Posts
AhYesBut has an excellent reputationAhYesBut has an excellent reputationAhYesBut has an excellent reputationAhYesBut has an excellent reputation
Re: Quellensteuer (tax deducted at source) on bonus

No it doesn't.

AYB

Quote:
View Post
Unfortunately, and you probably don't want to hear this, but (IIRC) quellensteuer tax rate is a "trap-door", i.e. once it "lifts", it stays at that higher rate for the rest of the year

Getting in touch with a non-company treuhand for a personal consultation might be well worth the investment...
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users would like to thank AhYesBut for this useful post:
  #9  
Old 29.08.2011, 16:40
ommthree's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Zürich
Posts: 275
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 108 Times in 67 Posts
ommthree has made some interesting contributions
Re: Quellensteuer (tax deducted at source) on bonus

Quote:
View Post
No it doesn't.

AYB
I hope you're right, otherwise I might as just jump in the Limmat right now!
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank ommthree for this useful post:
  #10  
Old 29.08.2011, 16:42
Carlos R's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Roundn'about Basel
Posts: 7,238
Groaned at 105 Times in 95 Posts
Thanked 9,934 Times in 4,178 Posts
Carlos R has a reputation beyond reputeCarlos R has a reputation beyond reputeCarlos R has a reputation beyond reputeCarlos R has a reputation beyond reputeCarlos R has a reputation beyond reputeCarlos R has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Quellensteuer (tax deducted at source) on bonus

Quote:
View Post
Thanks.

I earn less than 120k unfortunately, so no tax return.

If only someone at my firm had bothered to check these things out!
That's not the case. You should - in theory - also complete a tax return if you earn under 120 k as well. There are all sorts of deductibles that are not taken into account with QS that means your tax burden should be lower. However tax authorities don't push for this as they know that most people don't bother and therefore they get to pocket the small amounts - but small amounts for each person adds up to big bucks for the system...

Quote:
View Post
Unfortunately, and you probably don't want to hear this, but (IIRC) quellensteuer tax rate is a "trap-door", i.e. once it "lifts", it stays at that higher rate for the rest of the year
Weejeem. Don't scare the poor chap - this isn't the case. The accounting department deduct a set amount based on monthly income - they look at the income, see how much it is, look at the tables (of course this is all computerised) and see what needs to be deducted. As you earned more this month, you get taxed more, as they take this as an "annual average".

OP - do a tax return at the end of the year - it will all come out in the wash, as it were - and you will be taxed the correct amount over the whole year. Unfortunately you have to put up with loosing a chunk now - but you will get it back.

As Phil mentioned, maybe ask your company to spread any bonus payments?
__________________
Never let right or wrong get in the way of a good opinion
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank Carlos R for this useful post:
  #11  
Old 29.08.2011, 16:43
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Quellensteuer (tax deducted at source) on bonus

Quote:
View Post
Weejeem. Don't scare the poor chap - this isn't the case.
Well, I did say "IIRC", but clearly my R was not C
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank for this useful post:
  #12  
Old 29.08.2011, 16:54
Foxinthesnow's Avatar
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Binningen (BL)
Posts: 76
Groaned at 1 Time in 1 Post
Thanked 95 Times in 44 Posts
Foxinthesnow has earned some respectFoxinthesnow has earned some respect
Re: Quellensteuer (tax deducted at source) on bonus

Taking a worked example :
If you earn the ubiquitous CHF120k - and using the Quellensteuer rates for a single person in Baselland (as an example).

http://www.baselland.ch/fileadmin/ba...if11_Ad_Bd.pdf

If you earn your salary in 12 even instalments, you will earn CHF10,000 per month - be taxed at the 16.54% rate each month, and will pay CHF19,848 in tax for the year.

If you get paid in 13 months, you will earn CHF9,230.77 in 11 of those months (tax rate 15.57%) and CHF18,461.54 (tax rate 24.37%) in the other month. Total tax bill = CHF 20,309.

So being paid over 13 months/ being paid one month with a bonus, means overall you will pay CHF 461 extra tax with the Quellensteuer system (IN THIS EXAMPLE).

The Quellensteuer rate can vary each month (depending on earnings in that month).
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank Foxinthesnow for this useful post:
  #13  
Old 29.08.2011, 16:55
ommthree's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Zürich
Posts: 275
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 108 Times in 67 Posts
ommthree has made some interesting contributions
Re: Quellensteuer (tax deducted at source) on bonus

Quote:
View Post
That's not the case. You should - in theory - also complete a tax return if you earn under 120 k as well. There are all sorts of deductibles that are not taken into account with QS that means your tax burden should be lower. However tax authorities don't push for this as they know that most people don't bother and therefore they get to pocket the small amounts - but small amounts for each person adds up to big bucks for the system...



Weejeem. Don't scare the poor chap - this isn't the case. The accounting department deduct a set amount based on monthly income - they look at the income, see how much it is, look at the tables (of course this is all computerised) and see what needs to be deducted. As you earned more this month, you get taxed more, as they take this as an "annual average".

OP - do a tax return at the end of the year - it will all come out in the wash, as it were - and you will be taxed the correct amount over the whole year. Unfortunately you have to put up with loosing a chunk now - but you will get it back.

As Phil mentioned, maybe ask your company to spread any bonus payments?
Thanks. That's very helpful. So I just download it from the quellensteueramt and send it in? I always thought that this only applied to people over 120k. (And I always thought that that would be me soon... ha bloody ha!)

I bow to the people earlier who said the difference wouldn't be huge. I did the maths and to my surprise, though it's still painful, it's less than 1k in "over tax".
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 29.08.2011, 16:55
fatmanfilms's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Verbier
Posts: 19,742
Groaned at 421 Times in 313 Posts
Thanked 19,795 Times in 10,603 Posts
fatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Quellensteuer (tax deducted at source) on bonus

Quote:
View Post
I hope you're right, otherwise I might as just jump in the Limmat right now!
He is right, every month the salary is multiplied x 12 to calculate the tax payable that month.

It might be worth submitting a tax return. You get one from your canton's tax office, most have a software version that does all the adding up for you.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank fatmanfilms for this useful post:
  #15  
Old 29.08.2011, 16:57
ommthree's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Zürich
Posts: 275
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 108 Times in 67 Posts
ommthree has made some interesting contributions
Re: Quellensteuer (tax deducted at source) on bonus

Quote:
View Post
Taking a worked example :
If you earn the ubiquitous CHF120k - and using the Quellensteuer rates for a single person in Baselland (as an example).

http://www.baselland.ch/fileadmin/ba...if11_Ad_Bd.pdf

If you earn your salary in 12 even instalments, you will earn CHF10,000 per month - be taxed at the 16.54% rate each month, and will pay CHF19,848 in tax for the year.

If you get paid in 13 months, you will earn CHF9,230.77 in 11 of those months (tax rate 15.57%) and CHF18,461.54 (tax rate 24.37%) in the other month. Total tax bill = CHF 20,309.

So being paid over 13 months/ being paid one month with a bonus, means overall you will pay CHF 461 extra tax with the Quellensteuer system (IN THIS EXAMPLE).

The Quellensteuer rate can vary each month (depending on earnings in that month).
Thanks, I just did something very similar myself and was surprised how small the difference was. (Still enough to make me cry mind you!)
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 29.08.2011, 16:58
ommthree's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Zürich
Posts: 275
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 108 Times in 67 Posts
ommthree has made some interesting contributions
Re: Quellensteuer (tax deducted at source) on bonus

Quote:
View Post
He is right, every month the salary is multiplied x 12 to calculate the tax payable that month.

It might be worth submitting a tax return. You get one from your canton's tax office, most have a software version that does all the adding up for you.
Great. I'll give it a whirl when the time is right. I have some insurances and stiff I might be able to make deductions for too.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 29.08.2011, 19:27
ipoddle's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: basel
Posts: 1,035
Groaned at 21 Times in 14 Posts
Thanked 1,018 Times in 418 Posts
ipoddle has an excellent reputationipoddle has an excellent reputationipoddle has an excellent reputationipoddle has an excellent reputation
Re: Quellensteuer (tax deducted at source) on bonus

You will get it balanced... but only at the end of the year... either as cash back or off set against your next year's bill. I think (but am not sure) you can claim for the lost interest.. but at today's rates that's hardly worth it...

Anyway.. you're lucky ! When I got here I was convinced the best thing to do with my bonus was to send it straight into the employer's fund used to buy shares at a preferential rate. What nobody warned me about was that the Quellensteuer tax bill for that 'bonus' month would be more than my basic salary. Hey presto.. the bonus disappeared into the company fund and my basic disappeared to pay about 80% the tax bill.. I actually had a wage slip telling me I owed money to the company !
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank ipoddle for this useful post:
  #18  
Old 29.08.2011, 19:51
fatmanfilms's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Verbier
Posts: 19,742
Groaned at 421 Times in 313 Posts
Thanked 19,795 Times in 10,603 Posts
fatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Quellensteuer (tax deducted at source) on bonus

You will get 2% interest on any overpayment, that's tax free, no claim to make.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank fatmanfilms for this useful post:
  #19  
Old 29.08.2011, 19:53
ommthree's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Zürich
Posts: 275
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 108 Times in 67 Posts
ommthree has made some interesting contributions
Re: Quellensteuer (tax deducted at source) on bonus

Quote:
View Post
You will get it balanced... but only at the end of the year... either as cash back or off set against your next year's bill. I think (but am not sure) you can claim for the lost interest.. but at today's rates that's hardly worth it...

Anyway.. you're lucky ! When I got here I was convinced the best thing to do with my bonus was to send it straight into the employer's fund used to buy shares at a preferential rate. What nobody warned me about was that the Quellensteuer tax bill for that 'bonus' month would be more than my basic salary. Hey presto.. the bonus disappeared into the company fund and my basic disappeared to pay about 80% the tax bill.. I actually had a wage slip telling me I owed money to the company !
Nightmare!

Are people sure that I have the right to fill in a tax return (Steuereklärung). I looked at the canton Zürich tax office (Steueramt) website and they didn't seem to agree. (Because of being on a B permit, and earning less than the fabled 120k)

http://www.steueramt.zh.ch/content/d...20HA%20DEF.pdf

Thanks

Last edited by ommthree; 29.08.2011 at 19:53. Reason: Further details
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 29.08.2011, 20:03
fatmanfilms's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Verbier
Posts: 19,742
Groaned at 421 Times in 313 Posts
Thanked 19,795 Times in 10,603 Posts
fatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond reputefatmanfilms has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Quellensteuer (tax deducted at source) on bonus

Quote:
View Post
Nightmare!

Are people sure that I have the right to fill in a tax return (Steuereklärung). I looked at the canton Zürich tax office (Steueramt) website and they didn't seem to agree. (Because of being on a B permit, and earning less than the fabled 120k)

http://www.steueramt.zh.ch/content/d...20HA%20DEF.pdf

Thanks
Fill it in & see what happens, nothing to loose IMHO.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
bonus, quellensteuer, tax




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
[Q&A] Quellensteuer (tax at source for expats) muze7 Finance/banking/taxation 77 18.06.2018 18:52
Zurich Quellensteuer [Tax at Source] rates 2011 eyebeebe Finance/banking/taxation 15 29.12.2011 11:34
Quick question on tax at source and tax on bonus AJJ Finance/banking/taxation 18 28.04.2011 14:24
Filing taxes when tax not deducted at source amolch Finance/banking/taxation 1 02.04.2009 21:59
Quellensteuer (Tax at Source) babyfame General off-topic 77 25.03.2009 12:30


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 23:38.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0