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  #21  
Old 07.12.2011, 23:12
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Re: Euro Crisis

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Many people say the Euro was created to crash as a stepping stone to a one world currency. They say the Euro is going to be propped up until after Christmas "so the mindless masses will spend money they don't have on crap they don't need" then after it will dive into the hole. The US dollar approx 2 weeks after that. I'm still waiting on the new DM
So, out of curiosity, where did you get your quotes from?
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  #22  
Old 07.12.2011, 23:22
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Re: Euro Crisis

A guy that risk-conscious people should listen to:




12:30 - 13:30 is particularly funny
21:20 - 21:50 too

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Last edited by flavio; 07.12.2011 at 23:58.
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  #23  
Old 08.12.2011, 00:11
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Re: Euro Crisis

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Small 1gramme bars of gold are a safe bet, they work out at about 60-63 each

50K will get you around 800 bars...

!
Strange I just did the back of a fag packet conversion and either your supplier has a massive spread, my maths are " up the pictures" or your paying a 50% premium for your small and shiny bars!!

$1746 Tr.oz, approx 31.1 g / Tr.oz and a USD/EUR 1.34 = euro 42

I would call 20 euro a steep premium for a small shiny bar....give me a big one any day!
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  #24  
Old 08.12.2011, 00:30
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Re: Euro Crisis

Its funny, if you speak to a real gold seller he doesnt even know what the price per ounce of gold actually is. They only know the price per KG and they hope to make a 1% spread. LOL....

They really screw the little guy. Its amazing.

If you look at all the previous resets in history gold typically drops by 30% in real terms. Still a safe place to be as land drops by 80% in value in real terms. But if your a small guy buying less than 100Kg of gold you will get killed if the price of gold drops because the spread for small scale buyers is so huge.

But this guy does have the right idea. During a crisis who can spend 1oz worth of gold at one place? And no one at the store is going to make change for it. Smaller amounts of gold make sense when bartering I guess. But food stuffs are the only thing that actually keep going up in that kind of environment.

Maybe some one should start a canned food ETF.....

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Strange I just did the back of a fag packet conversion and either your supplier has a massive spread, my maths are " up the pictures" or your paying a 50% premium for your small and shiny bars!!

$1746 Tr.oz, approx 31.1 g / Tr.oz and a USD/EUR 1.34 = euro 42

I would call 20 euro a steep premium for a small shiny bar....give me a big one any day!
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  #25  
Old 08.12.2011, 00:43
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Re: Euro Crisis

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Maybe some one should start a canned food ETF.....
Actually, that ETF is called "Lots of dry food in your cellar".
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  #26  
Old 08.12.2011, 00:49
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Re: Euro Crisis

Small amounts are expensive, however if you sale them on Ebay or in Facebook you can add 20%, sell them and make a few quid on the postage, it's all relative at the end of the day, not everyone can afford $1,700+ but loads can afford less than $100.

Have a look on Ebay, people are selling grains and making a killing, even things that look like gold are selling for a premium

Even if gold goes drop massively the losses are minimal in real terms if you buy small, gold is a long term hold, if and when the gold standard ever comes back then anyone holding will massively benefit even the small guy.

Money tied to debt does not work, today's times prove that it needs to be tied to a real asset, historically gold is that asset, it looks good and everyone trusts it.

If the sh*t hits the fan good luck with that brick when you try to spend it, your more than likely to get a brick in the face than a good deal when a 'have not' sees it sparkle !!!
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  #27  
Old 08.12.2011, 01:12
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Re: Euro Crisis

I would say that an efficient and flexible way of keeping physical Gold is to buy fine Gold in wire form:

http://www.cooksongold.com/Wire/Q999...prcode-HRY-050

cut it to requirements:

http://www.esslinger.com/guillotine4inchshear.aspx

http://www.esslinger.com/precisionca...0ctx001ct.aspx
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  #28  
Old 08.12.2011, 01:21
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Re: Euro Crisis

I could see people wary of wire, how do you prove it's gold and valuable to someone who knows nothing about it?
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  #29  
Old 08.12.2011, 09:27
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Re: Euro Crisis

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I could see people wary of wire, how do you prove it's gold and valuable to someone who knows nothing about it?
In a society in which paper money is worthless, people will know, just like they did 200 years ago.
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  #30  
Old 08.12.2011, 10:46
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Re: Euro Crisis

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I would say that an efficient and flexible way of keeping physical Gold is to buy fine Gold in wire form:

http://www.cooksongold.com/Wire/Q999...prcode-HRY-050

cut it to requirements:

http://www.esslinger.com/guillotine4inchshear.aspx

http://www.esslinger.com/precisionca...0ctx001ct.aspx
Thank You very much for this page, from what I can see as an amateur, their prices of raw gold/silver seems pretty much the same as actual ones on international markets. But I would rather buy raw grains, they have better price per gram and if you really need to have a wire and cut it, pliers for few bucks will do the same job.
I guess it is handy in desperate times like WW2, when things you have in your hand can save your life. I hope we will never again reach those times, but mankind made it quite often. Peace we have here in Europe over last 65 years is rather nonstandard.
Do you have any personal experience with this site and ordering from it? Is their combination of price without VAT and adding 7.6% + handling fees less than you can get say in UBS over the counter?
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  #31  
Old 08.12.2011, 11:57
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Re: Euro Crisis

If the worse came to the worse and it became everyman for himself, if we three were competing for the same resource who do you think would walk away with it?

1. You trying to find something that both you and the resource holder decided was 'a length' and it's value?

2. Or you trying to find a scale to measure your grains?

3. Or me quick in and out with an authenticated lump of the good stuff?

Make no mistake about it, supermarkets carry 3 days worth of food, after that, if they are not looted before hand, food supplies will most likely fall into the hands of the most ruthless and most unfair, profiteering will become rife and life will become worthless.

If the lights go out and communication is abruptly terminated you will have to rely 100% on your own wits and your survival instinct.

Deals will not be done with contracts or handshakes, every trade with any person you are not immediately associated with, if you survive past the 3 days, will need to be completed with extreme caution especially here in Switzerland.

Living in a nation where most locals are military trained AND are armed at HOME, foreigners will be the low hanging fruit, because few will be armed and far more vulnerable. Any food or resources you managed to stock up with or have at the time will attract attention.

As an investment you will be better off going to your local Army Surplus store, buying everything in it, finding a secure place to stash it and be prepared to defend it.

Or you could cop out, life would not be comfortable and civilisation would take decades to restore so would it be worth living through, everything that you take for granted today will disappear very quickly, many people will commit suicide and many will be murdered?

I am not a natural pessimist but I really do have a horrible gut feeling that the next decade or so are not going to be nice for most people, it is better to invest now and be prepared just in case than be caught with your pants down, like an insurance policy you buy them hoping never having to claim...
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  #32  
Old 08.12.2011, 12:22
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Re: Euro Crisis

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If the worse came to the worse and it became everyman for himself, if we three were competing for the same resource who do you think would walk away with it?

1. You trying to find something that both you and the resource holder decided was 'a length' and it's value?

2. Or you trying to find a scale to measure your grains?

3. Or me quick in and out with an authenticated lump of the good stuff?

Make no mistake about it, supermarkets carry 3 days worth of food, after that, if they are not looted before hand, food supplies will most likely fall into the hands of the most ruthless and most unfair, profiteering will become rife and life will become worthless.

If the lights go out and communication is abruptly terminated you will have to rely 100% on your own wits and your survival instinct.

Deals will not be done with contracts or handshakes, every trade with any person you are not immediately associated with, if you survive past the 3 days, will need to be completed with extreme caution especially here in Switzerland.

Living in a nation where most locals are military trained AND are armed at HOME, foreigners will be the low hanging fruit, because few will be armed and far more vulnerable. Any food or resources you managed to stock up with or have at the time will attract attention.

As an investment you will be better off going to your local Army Surplus store, buying everything in it, finding a secure place to stash it and be prepared to defend it.

Or you could cop out, life would not be comfortable and civilisation would take decades to restore so would it be worth living through, everything that you take for granted today will disappear very quickly, many people will commit suicide and many will be murdered?

I am not a natural pessimist but I really do have a horrible gut feeling that the next decade or so are not going to be nice for most people, it is better to invest now and be prepared just in case than be caught with your pants down, like an insurance policy you buy them hoping never having to claim...
i don't see a mad max scenario. if anything, i would imagine a scenario similar to the russian collapse and i would recommend reading what dmitry orlov wrote about this as he posits a similar collapse for the US (and i would imagine also for europe).
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  #33  
Old 08.12.2011, 12:24
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Re: Euro Crisis

Phil I wished I shared your optimism
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  #34  
Old 08.12.2011, 12:42
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Re: Euro Crisis

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If the worse came to the worse and it became everyman for himself, if we three were competing for the same resource who do you think would walk away with it?
The one with a gun. Simples.
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  #35  
Old 08.12.2011, 13:01
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Re: Euro Crisis

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The one with a gun. Simples.
And what if we all had guns ?

If you approached a suspicious trader with gun drawn your more than likely to get your head blown off as soon as you got into range...

Guns are great if you just have to aim and fire, however in close quarters if things got messy a knife is a much more efficient tool, no safety catch, no faffing around, silent and deadly.

As soon as you fire a gun it will create a lot of noise and pin-point your location, think handheld crossbow if you want to show strength something like this :



I think a lot of people are going to make a lot of deadly mistakes if they had to fend for themselves, we are just too used to and rely too much on our creature comforts we have forgotten what real life is all about...
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  #36  
Old 08.12.2011, 15:38
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Re: Euro Crisis

Interesting roller coaster during Draghi's speech

http://markets.ft.com/research/Marke...mmary?s=599139

Seems that people wanted exceptionally good news but at the end reality took the final bite.
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  #37  
Old 08.12.2011, 15:40
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Re: Euro Crisis

Hmm, interesting topic. But back to my original question - say I want to buy 1000g silver bar, just because it's soooo shiny (or silver grain because it's cheaper and has same value). As a person being in Switzerland - what is the cheapest secure way to do so?
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  #38  
Old 08.12.2011, 15:47
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Re: Euro Crisis

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Hmm, interesting topic. But back to my original question - say I want to buy 1000g silver bar, just because it's soooo shiny (or silver grain because it's cheaper and has same value). As a person being in Switzerland - what is the cheapest secure way to do so?
Talk to a goldsmith maybe?
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  #39  
Old 08.12.2011, 16:21
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Re: Euro Crisis

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Talk to a goldsmith maybe?
Well being in Switzerland, goldsmith's charge over selling even raw materials would greatly increase buying price, I believe. I never saw goldsmith here working in low-cost spectrum of market.
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  #40  
Old 08.12.2011, 21:18
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Re: Euro Crisis

Try here, you can buy physical metals and leave the in their vaults, personally I think a hole in the ground is safer

http://suissegold.ch/home.php?cat=250
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