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View Poll Results: How long does the euro have left?
Monday 4 3.85%
Before/near Xmas 12 11.54%
Mid-February 34 32.69%
It'll stay intact due to an overnight hallmark 54 51.92%
Voters: 104. You may not vote on this poll

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  #241  
Old 12.06.2012, 16:07
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Re: How long does the Euro have left?

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you are confusing 2 topics: career progression and economy. The economy IMHO is more related to unions, corruption, high taxes, poor investments, etc

the "cultural" problems you described exist everywhere even in US and CH
I agree with you but I think that cultural issues have a much stronger negative influence on the economy in some (PIIGS) countries than in others
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  #242  
Old 12.06.2012, 16:11
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Re: How long does the Euro have left?

Those people who talk about stockpiling toiletpaper (or indeed anything) - that's a joke, right? Why would anyone do that?
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  #243  
Old 12.06.2012, 16:19
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Re: How long does the Euro have left?

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PIIGS have major cultural problems such as nepotism, promoting your friends, bosses who can't take any hint of constructive critisism from an employee etc.. What incentive has a young graduate in a PIIGS country to work hard if promotion / career prospects depend much more on his network of personal relationships than on his ability to make positive changes?

Things may be changing but too slowly.
Sounds like it's not so different here!
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  #244  
Old 12.06.2012, 16:21
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Re: How long does the Euro have left?

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That's not the problem.
The problem is that the politicians failed to institute a way to level these differences.

In Germany, the richer "states" pay part of the surplus to the poorer states.
But even in Germany, the richer states are fed-up with some poorer states just regarding this as yearly subsidies and getting "fat" on the money.

(Well, they don't really get "fat", in reality, they are too small to be viable on themselves, but the voting population there does not want to merge with another state, losing some sovereignty in the process and the people in the "overtaking" state usually don't want to inherit all the debt these guys bring with them - witness the failed merger of Berlin and Brandenburg a few years ago.)

This is what they call the "Transfer-Union", where rich countries would have to pay money to the less rich countries.

Obviously, that concept isn't very popular in the countries that would have to foot the bill, not only in Germany.
There's no rational way to sell this to the voters these days.

Germany is a "manufacturing economy", too, but is quite competitive even with quite high wages, high social contributions and high taxes (well, not for companies). But due to (relatively) low corruption rates, low strike-rates and maybe better work-ethic, the productivity is much higher in Germany.

Even though I would like to believe so, I don't think the solution consists of every EU-state becoming as productive as Germany. Who would buy all this stuff anyway?

OTOH, going on a spending-spree like there's no tomorrow (hello Greece) is certainly not the solution, either.
Germany is a manufacturing economy but they don't manufacture the same things. They make highly skilled, high priced items. The Pigs made commodity items which are now all made in China.

And of course with all the loans, it was the Pigs buying up plenty of German cars, etc.

Portugal had a vibrant and thriving economy manufacturing textiles, towels, glasses, shoes, windows, etc. They can not complete with China on these things any more. All the factories have closed. The Euro makes it too expensive to make these things there.

Italy had a booming economy manufacturing hi-end handbags, shoes, scarves, etc. They can't complete anymore and even these things are being made in China.

Greece with zero exports and has a huge problem in that no one paid any taxes! You can't keep giving bloated pensions with no one paying in the system. What do they/did they make in Greece????

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PIIGS have major cultural problems such as nepotism, promoting your friends, bosses who can't take any hint of constructive critisism from an employee etc.. What incentive has a young graduate in a PIIGS country to work hard if promotion / career prospects depend much more on his network of personal relationships than on his ability to make positive changes?

Things may be changing but too slowly.
I think that's quite an exaggeration.

The country with the biggest problem there was Greece. The rest had some of this but nothing like you are describing. These are not the real issues. China has all of that and more and they are booming because they are keeping their currency low to make their goods attractive around the world. The Euro prices European made goods out of the market.
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  #245  
Old 12.06.2012, 17:16
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Re: How long does the Euro have left?

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Those people who talk about stockpiling toiletpaper (or indeed anything) - that's a joke, right? Why would anyone do that?
...particularly when the new Drachmas will serve the same purpose!
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  #246  
Old 12.06.2012, 20:00
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Re: How long does the Euro have left?

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Those people who talk about stockpiling toiletpaper (or indeed anything) - that's a joke, right? Why would anyone do that?
Only if you have a very dark sense of humor.

And, yes, I am stocking a bit of staples/essentials just in case. People around here denude stores when there's a threat of a winter storm, I can only imagine what it will be like when there's a real crisis, i.e. banks shutting down for a few days...
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  #247  
Old 12.06.2012, 22:02
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Re: How long does the Euro have left?

“It's snowing still," said Eeyore gloomily.
"So it is."
"And freezing."
"Is it?"
"Yes," said Eeyore.
"However," he said, brightening up a little,
"we haven't had an earthquake lately.”
A.A. Milne

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Only if you have a very dark sense of humor.

And, yes, I am stocking a bit of staples/essentials just in case. People around here denude stores when there's a threat of a winter storm, I can only imagine what it will be like when there's a real crisis, i.e. banks shutting down for a few days...
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  #248  
Old 12.06.2012, 22:40
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Re: How long does the Euro have left?

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What do they/did they make in Greece????
- olive oil
- olives
- feta
- tourism (though that industry has also collapsed, according to various reports - images of burning stores and streets filled with tear-gas clouds don't really attract tourists, however picturesque the Acropolis is....)

I think, in a few weeks, the lights are really going to go out there for good:

http://www.nzz.ch/aktuell/feuilleton...aps-1.17223921
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  #249  
Old 12.06.2012, 22:43
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Re: How long does the Euro have left?

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- olive oil
- olives
- feta
- tourism (though that industry has also collapsed, according to various reports - images of burning stores and streets filled with tear-gas clouds don't really attract tourists, however picturesque the Acropolis is....)

I think, in a few weeks, the lights are really going to go out there for good:

http://www.nzz.ch/aktuell/feuilleton...aps-1.17223921
Some shipping companies are also Greek. (for instance, Onassis)
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  #250  
Old 12.06.2012, 22:47
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Re: How long does the Euro have left?

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- olive oil
- olives
- feta
Yeah. That's all I could think of too.
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  #251  
Old 12.06.2012, 23:08
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Re: How long does the Euro have left?

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Some shipping companies are also Greek. (for instance, Onassis)
Income from shipping in Greece is only 5% of GDP, which is small given the real size of the industry. There's no income tax on shipping profits(!), the tonnage tax is waived on new ships and ships repaired in Greece, and that's just the start of the many, many tax exemptions.

Even if you do pay some tax, most of the already low tax rates were halved back in 2002 during the good times. It got to the point that the EU listed their shipping tax regime as a "Harmful Tax Practice", but nothing came of that in the end.

http://www.lowtax.net/lowtax/html/of...ce/gressm.html
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  #252  
Old 12.06.2012, 23:52
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Re: How long does the Euro have left?

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Yeah. That's all I could think of too.
There's a Greek baker close to my work, he sells Karioka, which is also nice.

http://dergeschmackvonkreta.blogspot...-rumkugel.html

Oh, and he has chocolate brioches that are really, really delicious (especially in the morning, when they're still a bit warm...)

But hardly something that can turn-around the Greek economy, I'm afraid.

People talk of installing solar paddles there and then exporting energy.
Maybe in an alternate universe...
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  #253  
Old 13.06.2012, 08:12
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Re: How long does the Euro have left?

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I can only imagine what it will be like when there's a real crisis, i.e. banks shutting down for a few days...
I'll just use the ATM
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  #254  
Old 13.06.2012, 08:18
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Re: How long does the Euro have left?

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I'll just use the ATM
Lol good one

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  #255  
Old 13.06.2012, 09:16
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Re: How long does the Euro have left?

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I'll just use the ATM
... for a few days...


Within Europe some cash dispenser networks
have imposed a maximum value per transaction of €150 (equivalent to around £135)....


Source:
RBS new terms and conditions...
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  #256  
Old 13.06.2012, 10:06
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Re: How long does the Euro have left?

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I'll just use the ATM
in 2008 during the crisis, online banking suddenly went into 'maintenance' mode and some ATMs went offline or ran out of cash. don't expect to get your cash quickly when the SHTF!
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  #257  
Old 13.06.2012, 10:12
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Re: How long does the Euro have left?

IT'll be all right on the night!
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  #258  
Old 13.06.2012, 10:27
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Re: How long does the Euro have left?

I found this article useful !

A World of Trouble if the Spanish Banking Crisis Spreads
Until flaws in the euro are addressed, the crisis is likely to simmer on.

http://www.alternet.org/world/155834
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  #259  
Old 14.06.2012, 10:32
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Re: How long does the Euro have left?



I admire this guy for his communication!!
Look at all the other well fed stupid politicians...
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  #260  
Old 14.06.2012, 10:55
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Re: How long does the Euro have left?

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I'll just use the ATM
Seems the involved nations are already discussing how they will limit ATM usage in the event of a crisis with the use of daily limits, etc.
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