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Old 10.02.2012, 06:50
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Not Being Forthcoming with the IRS in US

Hey everyone...if one were to have bought a house in the US 2 years ago, received a $8,000 tax credit and then pretended they still lived in the US in order to not have to pay back that credit (for leaving their primary residence with the mandatory 3 year period) even though they have lived the entire 2011 year in Zurich, with a job and bank account here, would they be able to get away with it? It should be noted that during 2011 2 back wires were made between their accounts from Zurich to the US (under $6,000 total). The party also would like to continue to say they are single when they got married in Switzerland.

When filing taxes with the IRS, can anyone shed any light on the likelihood of getting away with this for one year?

When the party does decide to come clean with the IRS and tell them they got married and have a bank account in Switzerland for the tax season NEXT year, will documentation have to be provided to the IRS which would show that the party did indeed come to Switzerland in 2011, not 2012? - Thereby forcing the party to lose their tax credit?

Sorry for the encrypted message but there are sensitive parties who would like to know!

Thanks for the input!
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  #2  
Old 10.02.2012, 07:03
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Re: Not Being Forthcoming with the IRS in US

Sweet, looking for advice on how to break the law?

Look somewhere else.
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Old 10.02.2012, 08:21
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Re: Not Being Forthcoming with the IRS in US

No, you wouldn't. I indirectly have dealings with the IRS and those guys are nosy and humourless^10. Just remember that they got Al Capone for tax fraud, not the other stuff. Do you suit orange?
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Old 10.02.2012, 09:14
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Re: Not Being Forthcoming with the IRS in US

Do your 'friends' relish the idea of also getting hit with a nasty fine and then being audited for the next 10 years?
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Old 10.02.2012, 09:17
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Re: Not Being Forthcoming with the IRS in US



"Why yes, your reasoning is without fault. Your plan for tax evasion is foolproof. The IRS boys will never figure out it, what with the missing W2 income data, falsified statements about marriage, and missing FBAR and FACTA filings. Neither will the figure it out the following year when you suddenly declare that you're an overseas resident, married, and want to claim exemptions."

Notwithstanding that the statue of limitations for pursuing tax fraud far exceeds the timeframe in which you plan to 'come clean', this is a clear-cut case of deliberate tax fraud. If discovered (and there is a high likelihood of discovery), you can rest assured the IRS will pursue the case vigorously.

As Kittster so eloquently put it... Do you suit orange?
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Old 10.02.2012, 10:07
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Re: Not Being Forthcoming with the IRS in US

So lets see, there is likely rental income from said primary residence, no W2s, Swiss residency permit with tax witheld, swiss income and pension, no FEIE to offset said income, FATCA and FBAR filings, etc.. all of which adds up to at least 20x your wonderful 8,000 usd tax credit, of course not adding in penalties and the like.

One willful FBAR non-filing will cost you 10,000 usd last I knew.

So not sure which school of math you graduated from, but the calculation is very easy.
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Old 10.02.2012, 10:18
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Re: Not Being Forthcoming with the IRS in US

Good luck, you'll need it.

Speculations about what you did in the past are useless, I would come clean immediately, pay the penalty that you have to pay, whatever it is, and be done with it. Rather than stick your head in the sand, and wait for the IRS to catch you - which will happen at some point - and then pay the penalty, plus interests, plus risking legal consequences for tax fraud.

Based upon what I've seen over the years (luckily not for personal experience!), I, for one, wouldn't want to be on the bad side of the IRS ever.
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Old 10.02.2012, 10:42
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Re: Not Being Forthcoming with the IRS in US

talk to your CPA...or are you too cheap to consult one?
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Old 10.02.2012, 10:53
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Re: Not Being Forthcoming with the IRS in US

If you want something from a store, you can take the item to the cash-register, pay for it, and walk out with a clear conscience. Or you can stuff it in your pocket and try to walk out without paying.

You and your friends are, metaphorically speaking, standing in the isle of Migros (or WalMart) sticking things in your pockets, and discussing what your chances of getting caught are. Then, when you aren't sure, you start asking passer-bys (people on EF) what they think.

You guys don't sound like good thieves, and it's usually the bad ones who get caught
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Old 10.02.2012, 11:02
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Re: Not Being Forthcoming with the IRS in US

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You guys don't sound like good thieves, and it's usually the bad ones who get caught
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Old 16.02.2012, 21:36
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Re: Not Being Forthcoming with the IRS in US

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Hey everyone...if one were to have bought a house in the US 2 years ago, received a $8,000 tax credit and then pretended they still lived in the US in order to not have to pay back that credit (for leaving their primary residence with the mandatory 3 year period) even though they have lived the entire 2011 year in Zurich, with a job and bank account here, would they be able to get away with it? It should be noted that during 2011 2 back wires were made between their accounts from Zurich to the US (under $6,000 total). The party also would like to continue to say they are single when they got married in Switzerland.

When filing taxes with the IRS, can anyone shed any light on the likelihood of getting away with this for one year?

When the party does decide to come clean with the IRS and tell them they got married and have a bank account in Switzerland for the tax season NEXT year, will documentation have to be provided to the IRS which would show that the party did indeed come to Switzerland in 2011, not 2012? - Thereby forcing the party to lose their tax credit?

Sorry for the encrypted message but there are sensitive parties who would like to know!

Thanks for the input!
You know, it's harebrained schemes like this that force the IRS to come up with new and even more oppressive rules and invasive policies (e.g., FuBAR, FATCA, etc.) that wind up screwing the rest of us honest, hardworking taxpayers who, like it not, pay up whatever it is we owe.

Just FYI, there is NO statute of limitations if you're found guilty of tax fraud. So, man up and pay your damn taxes, dude. I am sick and tired of having to pay more to subsidize cheaters and frauds!
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Old 16.02.2012, 21:46
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Re: Not Being Forthcoming with the IRS in US

Welcome to the forum, criminal mastermind.

I don't know what this "IRS" is, but I'm sure it's a toothless organisation with better things to do than chase after tax dodgers. You'll be fine*.

(And people say EF isn't helpful to newbies.)

*Puntastic opportunities provided free of charge
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Old 16.02.2012, 22:12
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Re: Not Being Forthcoming with the IRS in US

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Hey everyone...if one were to have bought a house in the US 2 years ago, received a $8,000 tax credit and then pretended they still lived in the US in order to not have to pay back that credit (for leaving their primary residence with the mandatory 3 year period) even though they have lived the entire 2011 year in Zurich, with a job and bank account here, would they be able to get away with it? It should be noted that during 2011 2 back wires were made between their accounts from Zurich to the US (under $6,000 total). The party also would like to continue to say they are single when they got married in Switzerland.

When filing taxes with the IRS, can anyone shed any light on the likelihood of getting away with this for one year?

When the party does decide to come clean with the IRS and tell them they got married and have a bank account in Switzerland for the tax season NEXT year, will documentation have to be provided to the IRS which would show that the party did indeed come to Switzerland in 2011, not 2012? - Thereby forcing the party to lose their tax credit?

Sorry for the encrypted message but there are sensitive parties who would like to know!

Thanks for the input!
What is it with people lately. Coming onto a public forum and asking a bunch of strangers if it's ok to commit tax fraud and looking for free advice on how to do it...

Oh, and of course they're all so clever because they're not using their real names. And of course the IRS and other such organizations are completely ignorant that sites like this even exist where expats talk and trade stories and advice, and they would never lurk to see what's being said and try to figure out who's saying it...nope, nothing to worry about here folks, move along !!!

Who opened the "ok to start asking stupid questions" window
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Old 17.02.2012, 11:21
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Re: Not Being Forthcoming with the IRS in US

I cant believe the OP is genuine. He must be an IRS agent-let's hang him!
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Old 17.02.2012, 11:34
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Re: Not Being Forthcoming with the IRS in US

Everyone is always looking to cheat the system.

Whilst possible, can easily catch up with you, and for the small amounts mentioned you must surely know it is not worth it.

For all Americans, I urge you, please consider the tax affect of everything you do, it need be ingrained in your mind.

Married - what's US rax consequence?
Investment - what's US.....?
Gift
Inherit
Etc
Etc

Or.....expatriate, give up your passport. But you have to be compliant to do that too

Last edited by JBZ86; 17.02.2012 at 11:45. Reason: Horrid iPhone imposed typos
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Old 17.02.2012, 12:45
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Re: Not Being Forthcoming with the IRS in US

Competition is stiff, but I'm tempted to say that the OP just outlined the dumbest idea I've ever heard on the internet.
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Old 17.02.2012, 13:07
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Re: Not Being Forthcoming with the IRS in US

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Competition is stiff, but I'm tempted to say that the OP just outlined the dumbest idea I've ever heard on the internet.
Acutally I think it's a tie, there's been two of these threads in the past 3 days on IRS tax fraud.

And to boot, it's not like the US has any interest in CH regarding tax fraud these days Swiss banks/IRS/news headlines... I guess people think this is Siberia.
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Old 17.02.2012, 13:13
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Re: Not Being Forthcoming with the IRS in US

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Competition is stiff, but I'm tempted to say that the OP just outlined the dumbest idea I've ever heard on the internet.
Nah, I still put 9/11 was a controlled demolition and Obama isn't a citizen before that.
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Old 17.02.2012, 13:55
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Re: Not Being Forthcoming with the IRS in US

Seems to me it must be a drinking game. Whomever can get the poorest reputation with the fewest number of posts makes someone else drink (or pay for their public services, in this case). At one post and a shady reputation already, this must be a new record.

Last edited by tica; 17.02.2012 at 13:56. Reason: poor math
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Old 17.02.2012, 15:43
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Re: Not Being Forthcoming with the IRS in US

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Nah, I still put 9/11 was a controlled demolition and Obama isn't a citizen before that.
I like to think of myself as a connoisseur of muppet behaviour on the internet, and am therefore driven to point out that those examples fall into the category "batshit crazy". This is "thick as shit". A subtle distinction, but vital nonetheless.


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