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Old 02.05.2012, 11:47
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How much do you spend a month EXCLUDING rent/housing costs?

In the UK, when I was starting work, money was very tight and in fact, each year, I found myself going more into debt than accumulating money.

In the end, I created a spreadsheet which itemised every single item of expenditure I had and so I could see how much I spent on clothes, mobile phone, eating out, eating in, beer etc. etc. This was very useful and helped me get back on an even keel.

After getting better jobs, I no longer needed to watch the pennies so closely and so lost this discipline to the point that I don't really have an idea of how much money I spend in any given month.

If I had to guess, I would say perhaps 2000 not including rent and most of that on food, GA and insurance. (though I could be completely wrong!)

I wondered if anyone else has kept better tabs on their finances and can say how much they spend (excluding rental/housing costs) a month and what are the expensive things.

With all these threads on how much you need to live, I'm sure you can actually live on quite little if you have modest tastes.
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Old 02.05.2012, 11:54
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Re: How much do you spend a month excluding housing costs?

With most banks you can do online banking, in there you can in a lot of cases (I am sure of UBS that I use) download a CSV file that contains effectively every credit/debit you made. What I thus tend to do every once in a while is to download that, load it up in Excel/OpenOffice/Numbers (pick what you like), then do a search/replace replacing common things like COOP/MIGROS as 'shop' etc and thereby classify what amount was spent for.

Cash withdrawals I put down as pocket money as that is what I tend to pay with during going out etc, while everything else I try to, as much as possible, pay by card, as not only can the companies track you that way, but with the above trick, so can you. There is a small weakness in my scheme though, being that I pay bread at the bakery in cash, and as I like this jummy Finnenbrot that clocks in at 4.60 per almost every day, which goes quite quickly, but one can average that out a bit and thus lower the 'pocket money' portion quite a bit. The advantage of paying in cash at the bakery and other such shops is of course to get rid of all the coins one gathers when paying with notes in other places.

This way, except for the cash withdrawals, you know pretty well what one is exactly spending money on and can easily make stupid things like pie charts, or more useful bar charts to compare where you might want to cut down a bit or not...
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Old 02.05.2012, 11:56
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Re: How much do you spend a month excluding housing costs?

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With most banks you can do online banking, in there you can in a lot of cases (I am sure of UBS that I use) download a CSV file that contains effectively every credit/debit you made. What I thus tend to do every once in a while is to download that, load it up in Excel/OpenOffice/Numbers (pick what you like), then do a search/replace replacing common things like COOP/MIGROS as 'shop' etc and thereby classify what amount was spent for.

Cash withdrawals I put down as pocket money as that is what I tend to pay with during going out etc, while everything else I try to, as much as possible, pay by card, as not only can the companies track you that way, but with the above trick, so can you. There is a small weakness in my scheme though, being that I pay bread at the bakery in cash, and as I like this jummy Finnenbrot that clocks in at 4.60 per almost every day, which goes quite quickly, but one can average that out a bit and thus lower the 'pocket money' portion quite a bit. The advantage of paying in cash at the bakery and other such shops is of course to get rid of all the coins one gathers when paying with notes in other places.

This way, except for the cash withdrawals, you know pretty well what one is exactly spending money on and can easily make stupid things like pie charts, or more useful bar charts to compare where you might want to cut down a bit or not...
In the UK, this was quite easy because I put everything on Visa and could track all expenditure (cash spending was minimal).

Here, I use cash for practically everything so can't track as easily.
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Old 02.05.2012, 12:00
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Re: How much do you spend a month excluding housing costs?

I would say, excluding rent and one-off things like holidays, CHF1500-2500, on average.

I probably spend most on food (eating in and out of the house) and household bills, the car, then things like clothes/cycling stuff.

In my opinion owning a car is the best way of using up a lot of cash fast.

I am happy to say that since moving to Switzerland I've spent very little on beer, relatively speaking.
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Old 02.05.2012, 12:23
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Re: How much do you spend a month excluding housing costs?

It depends what is accounted into costs.
Regular month - around 2000 CHF including everything, one BMW to manage. It will drop by around 400 CHF when GF will get her salary (soon). But there are situation where almost whole salary is blown (3 weeks in Tanzania including safari and Kilimanjaro), it's hard to put average amount.

Here I think it's not about how much you can earn, but how much you can save. I don't get why is somebody willing to pay > 3000 CHF for accommodation, now matter how big or where it's located. Obvious black holes for money are going out (food & drinks), owning a car or traveling outside of Switzerland. Person who doesn't do either of this should save a lot. If he consider his life joyful and fulfilled is another story...
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Old 02.05.2012, 12:28
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Re: How much do you spend a month excluding housing costs?

I remember when I was first in CH, I had a short contract & wanted to save money. I generally spent under 800 a month after housing costs, OK that was before compulsary health insurance, I had BUPA international at the time.
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Old 02.05.2012, 12:28
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Re: How much do you spend a month excluding housing costs?

Hmm, well as as student I'm surprised to say that on average for the last 2 months I've spent 2200 including rent, and GA.

Regular expenses:

Rent: 600
Swisscom: 20
GA: 200
Health Insurance: 200

So regardless, each month I pay 1020 francs to keep on kicking here. The other 1200 is confusing. I believe it to be due to excursion costs at Uni where each one costs 200 francs and then having to eat out, drink with fellow mates while on said excursions. Outside of that, I'm now basically a vegetarian, I shop at Aldi, I hardly go out drinking, all trips are done as frugally as possible and I never use my VISA anymore because I have to incur the 1.25% fee.

Like you back home I paid everything on VISA and then at the end of the month my ebanking could show me all my expenses easily and swiftly and I could accommodate for differences. Never used cash or debit, as the VISA gave points (or extended warranty, etc) and when I came home everyday I'd just log on and pay it off within hours of purchasing anything basically using it as a debit card with benefits. Have never carried a balance or paid a late fee.

BTW UBS export as CSV function is terrible. It's formatted completely wrong and is incomprehensible and unusable in Excel or Openoffice Calc.
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Old 02.05.2012, 12:34
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Re: How much do you spend a month excluding housing costs?

Great thread, Phil. I am a fanatic of budgeting, coming from a family where the mantra was always "if you can't afford it (in cash) you're not buying it", and, "if you earn 1, you must spend .5, if you earn 1000, you must spend 500, etc.". Plus, I am sort of a geek that way

I have several detailed spreadsheets outlining monthly and yearly income and expenses, including inflation and scenario simulations with projections of salary increases, income decreases due to job loss, illness, etc., tracking of the housing market in different cities (I have not kept this last one up so much lately, as I am more focused on my nr. 1 goal of learning German at the moment). In addition, I keep very detailed track of savings and investments, by talking/meeting with my advisor on a regular basis. It's so much fun, I love it!!! (GEEK ALERT)

When I started this exercise 15+ years ago, obviously my "means" were much more limited than now, and at a point I was only able to save a minimal - as in a few dollars per month - amount. I believe that every single dollar (or frank, or euro, or whatever) counts. But let's make an example.

If my net salary (after taxes, deductions, social security contributions, etc.) is 100, then my breakdown is:
  • Net salary 100
  • House-related expenses (including rent and all related costs to maintain a residence, such as nebenkosten, internet, billag, telephone, etc.) 37
  • Health insurance 4
  • Food, transportation, and "emergency" (this includes grocery shopping - not eating out - transportation including periodic trips south to see my family, but also a certain amount is set aside each month to cover for the unexpected medical bill, or the repair, or whatever unexpected you might need to pay. If this "unexpected" is not spent, it goes either in savings or in the "disposable income" below) 9
  • Savings (by my instruction, this is taken out straight from the paycheck each pay day. A % of this is allocated to savings, a % to investments, a % to pension fund) 35 - 38
The remaining 12-15 is what I call my "disposable income" - this I have used to contribute to charities of my choice, to help a friend/family member in need, to buy clothes or that awesome leather handbag, to top my travel fund so when I can afford to go on vacation I have the peace of mind that it's all paid for, to go eat out (and I love to eat out!), to treat my OH to something nice, etc. etc.

This system has the advantage (IMO) that you don't leave the savings last, and therefore you on average save more money, and at the same time, when the disposable income for the month is gone, it's gone - no "cheating" by using a credit card over the "disposable income" limit - it will just mean that next month you will have to dip into your disposable income (guess where the monthly credit card payments come from? The disposable income!), and you will have less left to enjoy. Dipping into the excess disposable income that was left from last month is allowed.

I believe that the figures need not apply to everyone, as everyone has a different situation. However, I feel that now is for me the time to be aggressive in savings - if one day I am unable to work, or I want to open my own business, or I want to quit the workforce to take care of my kids, or I want to take 2 years off work and go travel the world, or I want to buy my own place, I want the peace of mind that all, or a good chunk of it, is paid for.

Last edited by BokerTov; 02.05.2012 at 14:26. Reason: added stuff
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Old 02.05.2012, 12:34
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Re: How much do you spend a month excluding housing costs?

Too much:

Dog care = 660
Dog food = 100
My Food = 750-1000
Going out = 1000

I have a terrible habit of treating myself to nice foods when I could really just cook a pizza.
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Old 02.05.2012, 12:38
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Re: How much do you spend a month excluding housing costs?

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I don't get why is somebody willing to pay > 3000 CHF for accommodation, now matter how big or where it's located. Obvious black holes for money are going out (food & drinks), owning a car or traveling outside of Switzerland. Person who doesn't do either of this should save a lot. If he consider his life joyful and fulfilled is another story...
that's why i excluded rent as this is a big amount and can vary a lot depending on whether you share, own, rent etc.
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Old 02.05.2012, 13:09
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Re: How much do you spend a month excluding housing costs?

I don't spend anything, I am Nikkinikki and people take care of me for favours.
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Old 02.05.2012, 13:10
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Re: How much do you spend a month excluding housing costs?

My butler only costs me 4500CHF a month.
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Old 02.05.2012, 13:19
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Re: How much do you spend a month excluding housing costs?

I keep a spreadsheet with all regular expenses and their expected payment dates for a given year. For my wife and me this amounts to a total of 27k chf annualy including, rent, parking, electricity, banking, credit card fees, health+house+private liablitity insuranes, billag, internet, phones and so on. Also includes 1 GA and tax + insurance of 1 car.

Of course rent is the largest part, then health insurances (one with 300chf franchise and the other with 2500chf, no suplementary insurance). The car is actually not so expensive - 1200chf for insurance+tax of an old Audi A6.

Food is probably around 600chf/month. Car running costs <200chf month averaged.

The rest goes for clothing, gadgets, beer and travel - a random number between 200 and 2000chf a month. All these things we could certainly do without if necessary.

What I consider important to know is how much money I really need each month for critical stuff and always like to keep a large safety margin.
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Old 02.05.2012, 13:42
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Re: How much do you spend a month EXCLUDING rent/housing costs?

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If I had to guess, I would say perhaps 2000 not including rent and most of that on food, GA and insurance. (though I could be completely wrong!)

I wondered if anyone else has kept better tabs on their finances and can say how much they spend (excluding rental/housing costs) a month and what are the expensive things.
TBH I have no idea, but if I were to exclude things like rent and mortgages, maintenance charges, utilities, insurance, cost of car purchases, repairs etc. etc. therefore leaving _just_ food, drink, petrol, clothes and other normal day to day things... then I still have no idea, actually ;-)

I know I transfer Eu 2000 a month into our French account to cover normal shopping bills and expenditure, and petrol would be something like chf 500 a month, lunch costs probably ~10 francs a day, so 200 a month, drinks out probably 100 francs three or four times a month, eating out hardly ever, say chf200 a month, mountain restaurants on average (over the year) about ten days a month, at say fifty francs a day (all these are for two people, by the way)...

So that little lot probably mounts up to about chf5000 a month. Plus one-off purchases like skis and skiing kit, bits of furniture or decor, electrical equipment, etc. etc. etc.

But really, all those exclusions make such a figure completely meaningless. Our _real_ monthly outlay is probably closer to 15000 than 5000. Possibly even more.
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Old 02.05.2012, 14:16
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Re: How much do you spend a month EXCLUDING rent/housing costs?

let's see. I try and budget:
1000 for food (family of 5) but it is probably more like 1200 or more (when I say food I mean diapers and toiletries as well)

then there is the rest of stuff (again, for a family of 5):
gym 43
spielgruppe 88
health & dental insurance 600
cell 10
television/phone/internet 125
electric 140
billag 40
car tax 112
car insurance 220
home/legal/other insurances 90
garbage 20
fernsehgenossenschaft 10

which I guess is another 1500

Then there are those other expenses: clothes, new things for the new house, car repair, blah blah blah. The CHF or € or $ always get spent much too easily, and this is without restaurants or nights out or etc! oh, and I forgot petrol, not sure what we spend there! probably another 200-300?
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Old 02.05.2012, 17:10
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Re: How much do you spend a month excluding housing costs?

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Here I think it's not about how much you can earn, but how much you can save. I don't get why is somebody willing to pay > 3000 CHF for accommodation, now matter how big or where it's located.
For decent family accommodation in Geneva CH3k+ is the norm. Perhaps if I asked my OH to do "night-shifts" in Paquis and got the kids to busk on TPG we could upgrade to something better.
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Old 02.05.2012, 20:22
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Re: How much do you spend a month EXCLUDING rent/housing costs?

I've been using YNAB "You need a budget" since Feb 2011, and this is the first time that I've tracked virtually every item going out. We've always had a 'budget' but never a specific record of expenditure.

At first I found it very scary...now I am getting used to the idea...

The YNAB people asked users to report when they 'peaked' with savings, and it was about 9 months into using the software, and I'd say that's about right - it's taken us about 9 months (salaries monthly) to really get a handle on the money coming in and out, and to get a sense of all those 'unforeseen' expenses...

Our general category is called 'food', but it includes things like toiletries, small household items, cleaning stuff, and day-to-day treats like icecreams for the kids. I should be able to keep that category to 1200chf per month for a family of 5, but it usually blows out to 1500chf. When we first arrived we had a food buget for a family of 5 of 200chf per week, but it took me about a year to be able to fill the small shopping trolley at Denner for 100chf.
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Old 02.05.2012, 21:23
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Re: How much do you spend a month EXCLUDING rent/housing costs?

I keep a monthly breakdown from my bank statements of what was spent on what: food, mortgage, petrol, insurances, credit cards, etc. The final totals are then put into a running spreadsheet which has been going since we moved over in 1998, giving me a monthly profit/loss figure as well as the current balance and also a rough projection for coming months. That's in addition to the normal bank balance spreadsheet.

We spend around 6,000+ a month, but that does include the mortgage and money transfers to savings and UK accounts. Without those, it's around 3,000+ for 2 people.
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Old 02.05.2012, 21:54
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Re: How much do you spend a month EXCLUDING rent/housing costs?

I eat 200gms of Migros Budget chocolate every day and drink one bottle of cheap whisky. So CHF10 x 30 = CHF 300 per month.

That is all I spend every month.
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Old 03.05.2012, 00:13
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Re: How much do you spend a month EXCLUDING rent/housing costs?

My way is the complete opposite. I say I will save a certain amount every month and ration the rest. This is probably not the best way to live but it has taught me how to be disciplined. As my salary increases, my savings per month also goes up proportionally.

But if I do a breakdown, it would be something like this:
GA 275
TV, Internet, home phone 100
Mobile 10
Food 400
Utilities 50
Misc 250
Total: 1085 == round up to 1100 excluding rent

Ways I save...
- Shop near closing for 50% off stickers
- Keep over 7500 in your post finance account (or 10k with UBS) and you will incur no monthly fees
- Don't own a car
- Outdoor activities

I grew up in extreme poverty so I am used to being thrifty. After fixed and variable costs, saving around 40% of net income.
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