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  #21  
Old 01.01.2020, 19:21
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Re: Can't back out of migros klubschule ?

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Hi oly.girl: I did! Sent them even a picture of my mum with all the tubes in the hospital. They just said that "while they understand my situation, I booked and need to pay". The fact is that no one was left out of the course (no one was in a waiting list) and I offered to take the course in January, which they said I will also have to pay. Pay twice? I do not think so.
I think the problem here is that you seem to think that you are entitled to getting a discount or not having to pay at all due to this situation. You however agreed on a contract that gives you no option to not pay or demand a discount under these circumstances. It might suck, it might be harsh and even be completely idiotic in your eyes but they are in their full right to demand payment, all you can do is pay the bill and next time choose another institute if you feel this one treats you unfair.
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  #22  
Old 01.01.2020, 19:25
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Re: Can't back out of migros klubschule ?

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I think the problem here is that you seem to think that you are entitled to getting a discount or not having to pay at all due to this situation. You however agreed on a contract that gives you no option to not pay or demand a discount under these circumstances. It might suck, it might be harsh and even be completely idiotic in your eyes but they are in their full right to demand payment, all you can do is pay the bill and next time choose another institute if you feel this one treats you unfair.
They can bend the rules if they want to. Ask your teacher to intervene and tell her you'd like to sign up for the next course. If that doesn't work, well pay the bill and fç%k em
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Old 01.01.2020, 19:29
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Re: Can't back out of migros klubschule ?

While I'm sorry for you, in the situation you are in, and you must be suffering with great concern for your mother, in fact, your personal situation is not relevant for your contractual situation.

The contract between you and the language school is binding on both parties.

In that contract, terms must be specified under what conditions you are allowed to cancel your registration and, if you do, what the penalties of so doing will be. Therefore, whether or not Migros Klubschlue owes you any refund or voucher or discount will be determined only by the contract, and by the extent to which you have fulfilled (or not fulfilled) the conditions for termination.

They are not obliged to offer you any discount or refund on the basis of compassion, although, as olygirl said, they might have chosen to do so, which would have been much nicer.

I think the thing for you to do is to re-read the contract and check whether your cancellation did, in fact, take place within what is specified as allowed.

EDIT: Oops, I see that Edwin was faster than me.
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Old 01.01.2020, 19:31
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Re: Can't back out of migros klubschule ?

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They can bend the rules if they want to. Ask your teacher to intervene and tell her you'd like to sign up for the next course. If that doesn't work, well pay the bill and fç%k em
Surely he can ask again, but he made it sound to me he should be entitled to something, just to make clear this is not the case.
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Old 01.01.2020, 19:40
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Re: Can't back out of migros klubschula ?

I wonder if insurance could pay for something like this.
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Old 01.01.2020, 20:31
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Re: Can't back out of migros klubschule ?

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Hi to all! I read the thread carefully and did not find the resolution, so I turn to you all for some advice.

In October I joined B1 1/2 in Klubschule Migros (KSM) Oerlikon really happy with level and teachers (my A2 was a mixed bag in KSM Alstetten). I renewed for B1 2/2 (when you are asked in class in front of everyone) and a few days after I renewed my mum was diagnosed with cancer and due to operate all in a very short turn around so I had to pack an go basically.

- I had to cancel the Thursday before the course started next Monday.
- I was 8th day, so 1 day after the cooling period (post buy).
- There was no waiting list, confirmed off the record by teacher: 14 spots, 11 students.

They have been chasing me for the money when I demonstrated (I actually sent proof) of my mums' illness and my travel ticket 24 hours turnaround between buying and flying.

The fact is that is a source of stress and I want to know what happened to people that had a similar experience, I have no access to Swiss German speakers, and the fact is that KSM does not seem to understand a logic emergency, is appalling. My mum is still ill and I had to quit my work to take care of her, so paying bill should be avoided. I have the savings, but is the principle.

Thanks in advance for all your insights/help.
Nico in Zurich
So why exactly do you think the school should have to take the hit for your misfortunes? Would you be willing to take the hit if for some reason they were unable to run the course and were still expecting you to pay up?

The school is a commercial organization that makes decisions to run courses based on the number of students signed up and as you pointed out they had only 11 students signed up, so they were all ready taking a hit on the three unsubscribed places and now you expect them to take a further hit as a result of some event they had no hand, act or part in... seriously!

And as for principals, the main one here is your refusal to honor your side of a legal contract. You can either pay up or expect to face the legal process that they will instigate to collect the debt.

This may sound blunt, but your sense of entitlement is beyond me.
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  #27  
Old 01.01.2020, 20:46
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Re: Can't back out of migros klubschula ?

I would like to add a little bit about the context of KSM, having been there for a few months.

They must deal very frequently with requests of cancellation, due to the fact that many people learning German are job seekers, or temporary residents hoping for confirmation of their stay. Everyone may have very good reasons for cancelling, at least from their point of view: they're no longer in CH, or they found a job incompatible with classes.

From the school point of view, they simply can not make exceptions, just because to them these events are daily routine, and it would be a mess (and a loss) to manage. Having been on the other side of the counter years ago, I would like to stress out this uncomfortable fact: very often businesses can't just "make one small exception" because for them it is not an exception. You can't return an item or claim warranty without proof of purchase, you can't get a refund on a non-refundable ticket. For you it's just once in a decade, for them it's tens of people asking it each day. They can't do it.

KSM offers a compromise though: one can subscribe to a course with canceling insurance, which covers a few of these common situations (e.g. finding a job). It costs around 20 CHF. The school advertises this with fliers and verbally, and many of my job-seeking friends purchased it. KSM can better organize groups, and gets extra money to cover the expenses of those who exercise the insurance.

This said, I sympathize with OP, but I must agree with EdwinNL. It's not that they don't understand, or they don't believe the story, but cancelling a contract is not how it works (and I don't think other schools are much different, for the same reasons).

So, surely the OP can try to negotiate something, but I believe the best way to attempt that negotiation is first to acknowledge that at the moment the OP simply has to pay the due amount.
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  #28  
Old 01.01.2020, 20:57
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Re: Can't back out of migros klubschula ?

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So, surely the OP can try to negotiate something, but I believe the best way to attempt that negotiation is first to acknowledge that at the moment the OP simply has to pay the due amount.
As articulate and explicate as your post is, I do know for a fact that exceptions can be made. However, your explanation on last minute cancellations is indeed an issue, especially in German classes, which is why Migros may remain firm in their decision not to compromise.
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  #29  
Old 02.01.2020, 11:58
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Re: Can't back out of migros klubschula ?

As the others have said, you have entered into a contract so there’s very little wriggle room. I would go there in person and talk to them. They are better face to face than via email.
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Old 09.01.2020, 15:42
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Re: Can't back out of migros klubschule ?

Hi everyone,

Thanks for all your responses. I am a bit taken aback as to why my message was taken as I have any sense of entitlement, I think that speaks more of the reader than me. If I am entitled to anything is just some sympathy but clearly not.

In any case there are some arising points above:

1) The insurance: won't cover. Only cover personal illness and or accident. It took me a while to find the T&Cs (however MSK recommended me to pay and claim back knowing full well I would not receive a penny).

2) A verbal contract where T&Cs have not provided or pointed out where to find.

3) As a commercial strategy is wrong to do this as customers will not got to purchase from them anymore, they make a detractor also should realise they have gyms, supermarkets, etc. that could suffer from this. I have stopped buying at Migros supermarket for example.


Thanks to all for your thinking, and I hope none of you is ever a victim of them.
Regards,
Nico
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  #31  
Old 09.01.2020, 16:02
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Re: Can't back out of migros klubschule ?

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3) As a commercial strategy is wrong to do this as customers will not got to purchase from them anymore, they make a detractor also should realise they have gyms, supermarkets, etc. that could suffer from this. I have stopped buying at Migros supermarket for example.



Thanks to all for your thinking, and I hope none of you is ever a victim of them.

I don´t think they will lie awake due to one customer less and the victim part is not correct. If you do not cancel on time, they have the right to hold you responsible for the contract you signed. Even if you had mitigating circumstances, the contract was signed and was valid.
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  #32  
Old 09.01.2020, 16:14
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Re: Can't back out of migros klubschule ?

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Hi everyone,

Thanks for all your responses. I am a bit taken aback as to why my message was taken as I have any sense of entitlement, I think that speaks more of the reader than me. If I am entitled to anything is just some sympathy but clearly not.

In any case there are some arising points above:

1) The insurance: won't cover. Only cover personal illness and or accident. It took me a while to find the T&Cs (however MSK recommended me to pay and claim back knowing full well I would not receive a penny).

2) A verbal contract where T&Cs have not provided or pointed out where to find.

3) As a commercial strategy is wrong to do this as customers will not got to purchase from them anymore, they make a detractor also should realise they have gyms, supermarkets, etc. that could suffer from this. I have stopped buying at Migros supermarket for example.


Thanks to all for your thinking, and I hope none of you is ever a victim of them.
Regards,
Nico
We are all sorry for your situation and wish your mum well, but objectively speaking a business does not generally care for the personal reasons behind which you have decided not to honour a contract that you signed up to. You are not entitled to a refund unless there is a clause in the contract stating such and neither are you being 'victimised' by Migros Klubschule'.

It's understandable you are deeply annoyed at losing money over such an unavoidable situation, but you cannot automatically expect a business to bend their rules or show understanding when this happens because in the end they cannot take everyone's personal problems into account and ultimately you are a source of income to them and nothing more. It's nothing personal against you.
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  #33  
Old 09.01.2020, 16:43
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Re: Can't back out of migros klubschule ?

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I hope none of you is ever a victim of them.
I understand the circumstances, but I think this term is unfair, as long as they fully respect the contract you spontaneously signed.
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  #34  
Old 09.01.2020, 16:43
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Re: Can't back out of migros klubschula ?

Klubschule courses typically run over something like a half year.

An unexpected illness in the family might make you miss some courses, but will it take you down for half a year?

Otherwise, just attend the courses you can attend.

From my experience at Klubschule, you get all sorts of pupils and there will always be some who are way dumber than you and the teacher thus has to keep repeating stuff you already know. So if you're reasonably smart or have been doing your homework regularly, missing some courses or even two months of consecutive courses won't put you at an irrepairbale disadvantage.
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Old 09.01.2020, 16:49
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Re: Can't back out of migros klubschule ?

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Hi everyone,

Thanks for all your responses. I am a bit taken aback as to why my message was taken as I have any sense of entitlement, I think that speaks more of the reader than me. If I am entitled to anything is just some sympathy but clearly not.

In any case there are some arising points above:

1) The insurance: won't cover. Only cover personal illness and or accident. It took me a while to find the T&Cs (however MSK recommended me to pay and claim back knowing full well I would not receive a penny).

2) A verbal contract where T&Cs have not provided or pointed out where to find.

3) As a commercial strategy is wrong to do this as customers will not got to purchase from them anymore, they make a detractor also should realise they have gyms, supermarkets, etc. that could suffer from this. I have stopped buying at Migros supermarket for example.


Thanks to all for your thinking, and I hope none of you is ever a victim of them.
Regards,
Nico
So you don't feel entitled, yet them not doing what you want is enough to feel victimised and avoid their company completely in future.

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  #36  
Old 09.01.2020, 17:44
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Re: Can't back out of migros klubschule ?

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I renewed for B1 2/2 (when you are asked in class in front of everyone) and a few days after I renewed my mum was diagnosed with cancer and due to operate all in a very short turn around so I had to pack an go basically.

- I had to cancel the Thursday before the course started next Monday.
- I was 8th day, so 1 day after the cooling period (post buy).

The renewal part is a bit confusing. Did you filled out and signed registration form or just oral agreement when the teacher asked?



If you signed the form, you have to pay according to Migros Schule terms and conditions "En cas d’annulation moins d’une semaine avant le début du cours, l’intégralité de l’écolage est due." https://www.ecole-club.ch/Services/CGV


In theory, an oral agreement is the same but Migros Schule would have to prove you said yes, witnesses and all that. The problem would be relatively complicate to retrieve 600 or 800 CHF that they may have let you go. But, this was a choice in the past not available anymore. Once you told them you wanted to study but could not anymore due to X or Y reason, the contract applies. Hope you did not that via email, they have all they need to go to betriebungsamt and collect the money.



Talking oneself out of a contract is a skillful performance with the right timing. Considering the mental load you had with you mom's illness, it would have been a miracle to handle this properly. You cannot win a match with a broken leg. Take the loss and move on.
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Old 09.01.2020, 17:44
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Re: Can't back out of migros klubschule ?

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Thanks to all for your thinking, and I hope none of you is ever a victim of them.
Regards,
Nico
I appreciate your situation with your sick parent but seriously:

Expecting someone else to bear the costs of your misfortune is most certainly a since of entitlement.

And as for claiming to be a victim, when all the other party to the contract requires is that you stick to the terms you committed to.... well that is just childish.
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  #38  
Old 10.01.2020, 13:45
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Re: Can't back out of migros klubschule ?

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The renewal part is a bit confusing. Did you filled out and signed registration form or just oral agreement when the teacher asked?

If you signed the form, you have to pay according to Migros Schule terms and conditions "En cas d’annulation moins d’une semaine avant le début du cours, l’intégralité de l’écolage est due." https://www.ecole-club.ch/Services/CGV

In theory, an oral agreement is the same but Migros Schule would have to prove you said yes, witnesses and all that. The problem would be relatively complicate to retrieve 600 or 800 CHF that they may have let you go. But, this was a choice in the past not available anymore. Once you told them you wanted to study but could not anymore due to X or Y reason, the contract applies. Hope you did not that via email, they have all they need to go to betriebungsamt and collect the money.

Talking oneself out of a contract is a skillful performance with the right timing. Considering the mental load you had with you mom's illness, it would have been a miracle to handle this properly. You cannot win a match with a broken leg. Take the loss and move on.
Thanks so much for your response. It is an oral thing. They go through the students and ask each one in front of the others if they will continue the course. I know is stupid, but I did not want to share with the rest about my mum so I said yes to not have 12 people pity me. Anyhow, they apologised because they had no copies of the T&Cs. So it was verbal. I tried today to go and speak face to face to them and they were quite helpful really. Will go again on Monday when the manager is in. I will keep everyone posted.
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Old 10.01.2020, 13:46
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Re: Can't back out of migros klubschula ?

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Klubschule courses typically run over something like a half year.

An unexpected illness in the family might make you miss some courses, but will it take you down for half a year?

Otherwise, just attend the courses you can attend.

From my experience at Klubschule, you get all sorts of pupils and there will always be some who are way dumber than you and the teacher thus has to keep repeating stuff you already know. So if you're reasonably smart or have been doing your homework regularly, missing some courses or even two months of consecutive courses won't put you at an irrepairbale disadvantage.
Hi it was intensive 4 weeks everyday 4 hours.
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Old 10.01.2020, 13:49
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Re: Can't back out of migros klubschule ?

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Thanks so much for your response. It is an oral thing. They go through the students and ask each one in front of the others if they will continue the course. I know is stupid, but I did not want to share with the rest about my mum so I said yes to not have 12 people pity me. Anyhow, they apologised because they had no copies of the T&Cs. So it was verbal. I tried today to go and speak face to face to them and they were quite helpful really. Will go again on Monday when the manager is in. I will keep everyone posted.
I think I would have just said, "I'm not sure right now, I can confirm tomorrow / by the end of the week" or something similar. This would have been an acceptable and reasonable response, and your mother's illness would never have been a factor.
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