Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Help & tips > Finance/banking/taxation  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #21  
Old 23.07.2012, 13:49
drmom's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Somewhere in SG
Posts: 2,341
Groaned at 12 Times in 12 Posts
Thanked 2,187 Times in 1,050 Posts
drmom has a reputation beyond reputedrmom has a reputation beyond reputedrmom has a reputation beyond reputedrmom has a reputation beyond reputedrmom has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Raiffeisen to terminate all US customers

Quote:
View Post
Why would he care?
are you asking why he would care what I would think? I am an oversees voter whose last residence is NY State and I am therefore one of his constituents. Or at least I used to be. And I know a lot of others .

It is the only thing we can really do, isn't it? Write them and let them know that their dumb laws have consequences that they perhaps didn't realize...
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 23.07.2012, 14:03
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Quote:
View Post
are you asking why he would care what I would think? I am an oversees voter whose last residence is NY State and I am therefore one of his constituents. Or at least I used to be. And I know a lot of others .

It is the only thing we can really do, isn't it? Write them and let them know that their dumb laws have consequences that they perhaps didn't realize...
There's another legislator from NY, can't remember if she is the other senator or house rep - but she was interested in citizens abroad too.

My last state of residence was NC. Myopic r us.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 23.07.2012, 14:17
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: na
Posts: 11,248
Groaned at 37 Times in 33 Posts
Thanked 26,732 Times in 8,253 Posts
meloncollie has a reputation beyond reputemeloncollie has a reputation beyond reputemeloncollie has a reputation beyond reputemeloncollie has a reputation beyond reputemeloncollie has a reputation beyond reputemeloncollie has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Raiffeisen to terminate all US customers

Quote:
There's another legislator from NY, can't remember if she is the other senator or house rep - but she was interested in citizens abroad too.
Members of the congressional Americans Abroad Caucus:

http://www.aca.ch/joomla/index.php?o...d=73&Itemid=74

(From the ACA website.)


Write 'em, folks. Please.

(As well as the senator and congressperson for the state/district in which you vote.)
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank meloncollie for this useful post:
  #24  
Old 23.07.2012, 14:36
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: la cote
Posts: 3,608
Groaned at 21 Times in 13 Posts
Thanked 3,257 Times in 1,712 Posts
runningdeer has a reputation beyond reputerunningdeer has a reputation beyond reputerunningdeer has a reputation beyond reputerunningdeer has a reputation beyond reputerunningdeer has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Raiffeisen to terminate all US customers

Quote:
There's another legislator from NY, can't remember if she is the other senator or house rep - but she was interested in citizens abroad too.

My last state of residence was NC. Myopic r us.
I think you are thinking of US Senator Kirsten Gillibrand from NY.

Not sure if she is part of the ACA caucus but she should have some sympathies, as her husband is British. Seems she also disclosed his/their UK accounts as part of Congressional disclosure reporting. If only the tides were turned and UK went after its expats like the US, maybe then she would be really interested in taking up the cause though.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 23.07.2012, 14:47
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Quote:
View Post
I think you are thinking of US Senator Kirsten Gillibrand from NY.

Not sure if she is part of the ACA caucus but she should have some sympathies, as her husband is British. Seems she also disclosed his/their UK accounts as part of Congressional disclosure reporting. If only the tides were turned and UK went after its expats like the US, maybe then she would be really interested in taking up the cause though.
No, it's the first person on the list that Meloncollie provided. I think the caucus is all house reps. I just skimmed it to see if I recognized anyone.
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 23.07.2012, 15:03
NotAllThere's Avatar
Modulo 2
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Baselland
Posts: 14,513
Groaned at 280 Times in 239 Posts
Thanked 21,762 Times in 8,826 Posts
NotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond reputeNotAllThere has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Raiffeisen to terminate all US customers

Quote:
View Post
[SIZE=3][FONT=Calibri]Unfortunately the US is the only western country that treats its overseas citizens with such disregard. This is self-destructive for the US but those in the government donít see this. ...
What they see is that they can tell their local constituents, that they're cracking down hard on those tax avoiding expat scum. Political sympathy to unpatriotic rats who've deserted the sinking ship is bound to be in short supply - regardless of the facts of the case. Why would anyone voluntarily leave the US to work? They're obviously suspect...

etc... etc...
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank NotAllThere for this useful post:
  #27  
Old 23.07.2012, 15:32
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Raiffeisen to terminate all US customers

Quote:
View Post
are you asking why he would care what I would think? I am an oversees voter whose last residence is NY State and I am therefore one of his constituents. Or at least I used to be. And I know a lot of others .

It is the only thing we can really do, isn't it? Write them and let them know that their dumb laws have consequences that they perhaps didn't realize...
US citizenship-based taxation is a hangover of the Civil War to penalize those that fled to the relative safety of Europe (in essence, to make sure they "paid their fair share").

If this system has not been repealed in the past 150 years, I doubt it will be repealed anytime soon given today's debt problems, underfunded public pensions, baby boomers unprepared for retirement about to bankrupt social security and the unrepresentative nature of America's democracy (winner-takes-all, ensuring our voice will never get heard).

Best way forward? Petition foreign governments to apply anti-US tax laws. Every dollar expat Americans pay to the IRS (taxes, interest, non-compliance penalties) is a dollar effectively stolen from the economy in which that American expat resides. Essentially, US expats would report to their local tax authorities how much money they lost to the IRS, and that country would assess a reciprocal special tax charge of that value (plus interest and FOREX impact of course) on US companies and organizations repatriating capital back to the US. This money collected by foreign governments would then be given back to US expats in their country as a "tax-free gift" for the money the IRS tried stealing from the local economy. And if the IRS tries to tax this gift the following year, we can play the whole game again.

If it works, it would ironically incentivate all non-compliant US expats to come out clean, since all charges the IRS assesses would be refunded from repatriating US corporate profits .

Extend this law to the banks in those foreign countries that are assessed FATCA non-compliance penalties. They would get refunded by US capital proceeds withheld.

This way, you can ensure congressmen feel the punch below the belt where it hurts (their pockets, as campaign contributors and corporate lobbyists would be on their phone day and night).

May not work with all countries, but you can bet it will work for a few big ones (BRICS) and emerging markets that US companies heavily depend on. And I guarentee you waves of wealthy multi-citizen US expats will flood to those markets to take up residency just for the sake of renouncing there so that their "exit taxes" will be refunded with US assets seized in that country.

Last edited by brusch; 23.07.2012 at 16:05.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank for this useful post:
  #28  
Old 23.07.2012, 15:44
Member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Aargau
Posts: 111
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 143 Times in 51 Posts
Dual US/Swiss Citizen has made some interesting contributions
Re: Raiffeisen to terminate all US customers

I tend to agree with the above post about bringing this issue to the governments of residence. I have the impression that most European countries view this citizenship-based taxation as something bizarre but don't think it affects them directly; therefore, no action is taken.
If these governments would wake up and are made to realize that this is eroding their tax base, I think they would be more proactive.
I think it would be good to write the Swiss Bundesrat and parlementarians.
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 23.07.2012, 16:10
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: la cote
Posts: 3,608
Groaned at 21 Times in 13 Posts
Thanked 3,257 Times in 1,712 Posts
runningdeer has a reputation beyond reputerunningdeer has a reputation beyond reputerunningdeer has a reputation beyond reputerunningdeer has a reputation beyond reputerunningdeer has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Raiffeisen to terminate all US customers

Quote:
View Post
What's crazy is that the ones who are renouncing are actually paying taxes to the US (because you can't renounce unless you can prove that you have filed tax returns for the past few years).
Technically this is not correct. You may renounce or relinquish citizenship without any such information.

Quote:
View Post
The only thing we can hope for is for foreign governments to create anti-FATCA laws which reciprocally penalize US companies and banks abroad if banks from those countries face the consequences of FATCA non-compliance. US congressmen will then feel the pain in their pockets when US companies start complaining at home and start cutting re-election campaign support.
While this is one avenue to pursue, making Congress feel its own pain and its repercussions is likely also to help, ie. DATCA.

Quote:
View Post
Unfortunately the US is the only western country that treats its overseas citizens with such disregard. This is self-destructive for the US but those in the government donít see this.
U.S. Congressmen are indeed blind to the bigger picture as most never travel abroad or even outside of their consitiuencies, except for Washington.

To exemplify this, most are aware of Federal budget situation but are clueless of 'how to fix it', etc..

So looking at FY2012, approx. 80% of the budget is 4 categories--Defense, Pensions (most social security), Welfare, and Healthcare. So given the aging babyboomers, it is quite clear where expenditures will increase in the future and which have the biggest impact--Pension, Healthcare, and to a certain extent welfare. The US Congress should be doing everything possible to encourage US citizens, esp. US retireees, to go abroad in order to fix the budget situation. As Healthcare (medicaid and medicare) and Welfare are not paid outside the US, this could be a big savings. Not to mention, pensions and social security go a lot further in many places outside the US. Instead, their short-sightedness only discourages this.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank runningdeer for this useful post:
  #30  
Old 23.07.2012, 16:48
st2lemans's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Lugano
Posts: 32,235
Groaned at 2,467 Times in 1,784 Posts
Thanked 39,332 Times in 18,539 Posts
st2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Raiffeisen to terminate all US customers

Quote:
View Post
What's crazy is that the ones who are renouncing are actually paying taxes to the US (because you can't renounce unless you can prove that you have filed tax returns for the past few years).
Must be a new law, I didn't have to show anything regarding taxes when I renounced three years ago (though my filings were always done).

Also, filing tax forms doesn't mean that you actually paid any taxes!

Tom
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank st2lemans for this useful post:
  #31  
Old 23.07.2012, 17:43
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Raiffeisen to terminate all US customers

Quote:
View Post
Must be a new law, I didn't have to show anything regarding taxes when I renounced three years ago (though my filings were always done).

Also, filing tax forms doesn't mean that you actually paid any taxes!

Tom
Agree, according to the US Embassy website:

http://bern.usembassy.gov/service/renunciation5.html

E. TAX & MILITARY OBLIGATIONS /NO ESCAPE FROM PROSECUTION

Also, persons who wish to renounce U.S. citizenship should also be aware that the fact that a person has renounced U.S. citizenship may have no effect whatsoever on his or her U.S. tax or military service obligations (contact the Internal Revenue Service or U.S. Selective Service for more information). In addition, the act of renouncing U.S. citizenship will not allow persons to avoid possible prosecution for crimes which they may have committed in the United States, or escape the repayment of financial obligations previously incurred in the United States or incurred as United States citizens abroad.
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 23.07.2012, 17:58
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Raiffeisen to terminate all US customers

Quote:
View Post
The US Congress should be doing everything possible to encourage US citizens, esp. US retireees, to go abroad in order to fix the budget situation. As Healthcare (medicaid and medicare) and Welfare are not paid outside the US, this could be a big savings. Not to mention, pensions and social security go a lot further in many places outside the US. Instead, their short-sightedness only discourages this.
A very interesting idea. The baby boomers account for 25% of the US population and I think an overwhelming majority of them have probably never been abroad (unless they were military draftees during the 1960s and 1970s) or even speak a foreign language.

Hence I think only a small minority of them would be able to relocate and adapt to a non-Anglo-Saxon culture (there are not many affluent Anglo-Saxon countries out there; those that exist such as Canada, Australia, New Zealand and the UK have much higher cost of living and taxes can also be a killer).

Also, consider the reactions of the countries receiving a huge inflow of American retirees (could be both positive and negative).
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 24.07.2012, 11:58
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: la cote
Posts: 3,608
Groaned at 21 Times in 13 Posts
Thanked 3,257 Times in 1,712 Posts
runningdeer has a reputation beyond reputerunningdeer has a reputation beyond reputerunningdeer has a reputation beyond reputerunningdeer has a reputation beyond reputerunningdeer has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Raiffeisen to terminate all US customers

Quote:
View Post

Hence I think only a small minority of them would be able to relocate and adapt to a non-Anglo-Saxon culture (there are not many affluent Anglo-Saxon countries out there.
Not really anglo countries in my view. Already there are significant numbers going south of the border for affordable healthcare and sunnier climates. Mexico already has sizable anglo retirement communities, which can only grow in my opinion. Other Latin countries are also high on this learning curve and are attractive for anglo retirees or already have established communities, i.e. Costa Rica, Belize, and parts of Brazil and Argentina for example.
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 24.07.2012, 13:24
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Raiffeisen to terminate all US customers

Central American countries ok, but they are rather small and could, at max, accommodate 100,000 max each (also take it account the impact on cost of living in these countries if many Americans flood there).

Mexico could be a possibility, but its drug violence could be a big con (Americans would be targets for kidnapping).

Brazil? High taxes, high cost of living and (depending on where you live) high crime. Also, infrastructure is still 4th world despite its massive growth economically.

Argentina? Recession-prone with currency controls today. Brazil would be a better option.

Chile may not be a bad idea.

I personally would pick something in middle of Siberia. Huge land, low costs, low taxes (today at least), safe and I would need a monthly trip to an ATM to withdrawal Swiss 1st and 2nd Pillars.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank for this useful post:
  #35  
Old 24.07.2012, 15:05
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: St Gallen
Posts: 58
Groaned at 1 Time in 1 Post
Thanked 59 Times in 28 Posts
Curt has earned some respectCurt has earned some respect
Re: Raiffeisen to terminate all US customers

Quote:
View Post
what should they do?
I would like to see the US Ambassador to Switzerland issue such a statement:

1) The US State Department recognizes that US Persons are being denied banking services in Switzerland as a result of implementation of the extra-territorial US law known as FATCA and the ongoing tax dispute between the US and Switzerland.
2) The US Ambassador to Switzerland would like to express his sympathies for the inconvenience caused by US tax law and the tax dispute to US Persons who reside in Switzerland.
3) The US Embassy is working with Swiss government officials to ensure that banking services remain available to US Persons residing in Switzerland.
4) To ensure that US citizens who are also citizens of Switzerland, or another country, can renounce or relinquish their US citizenship status to lead a normal life in Switzerland, the US Embassy in Bern is endeavoring to reduce the long leadtimes required to obtain appointments to renounce or relinquish US citizenship.

It would be admirable if Donald Beyer, the US Ambassador to Switzerland, could issue such a statement. It could be posted on the US Embassy's website or could be made through a press release. However, as he has not shown any interest in this topic to-date, it would be foolhardy to be optimistic that he will come to the aid of the average US Person living and working in Switzerland. Perhaps he will be replaced after the November election.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank Curt for this useful post:
  #36  
Old 24.07.2012, 15:58
Member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Aargau
Posts: 111
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 143 Times in 51 Posts
Dual US/Swiss Citizen has made some interesting contributions
Re: Raiffeisen to terminate all US customers

I have no idea if the US ambassador has done anything or plans to do anything on this issue, but was disappointed by his brief interview a few weeks ago in the Swiss news. He was asked about the increased renunciations and he answered by saying they are small compared to the number of those requesting green cards. The number jumping over the Berlin wall may also not have been so significant but I think it did indicate a problem. He did however show a touch of a human side by saying that it was sad when a renunciation took place although he could understand how for some people it could be Ďpracticalí.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank Dual US/Swiss Citizen for this useful post:
  #37  
Old 24.07.2012, 19:38
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: St Gallen
Posts: 58
Groaned at 1 Time in 1 Post
Thanked 59 Times in 28 Posts
Curt has earned some respectCurt has earned some respect
Re: Raiffeisen to terminate all US customers

Quote:
View Post
Raiffeisen announces today they will give notice to all American customers (approx. 1000). Does anyone know about the details of this? I.e., if this is only for customers living in the US or also for those living here? Is it mainly investment accounts for also normal salary and mortgage accounts?
The situation for Americans seems to be further deteriorating. No finance institutions want anything to do with Americans because of the new FATCA regulations from the US.
Is this what you meant by Raiffeisen's plans to "terminate" all US customers?


Last edited by Curt; 24.07.2012 at 19:57.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank Curt for this useful post:
  #38  
Old 24.07.2012, 19:43
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: north
Posts: 6,132
Groaned at 218 Times in 138 Posts
Thanked 5,100 Times in 2,636 Posts
rob1 has a reputation beyond reputerob1 has a reputation beyond reputerob1 has a reputation beyond reputerob1 has a reputation beyond reputerob1 has a reputation beyond reputerob1 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Raiffeisen to terminate all US customers

Quote:
View Post
I would like to see the US Ambassador to Switzerland issue such a statement:

1) The US State Department recognizes that US Persons are being denied banking services in Switzerland as a result of implementation of the extra-territorial US law known as FATCA and the ongoing tax dispute between the US and Switzerland.
2) The US Ambassador to Switzerland would like to express his sympathies for the inconvenience caused by US tax law and the tax dispute to US Persons who reside in Switzerland.
3) The US Embassy is working with Swiss government officials to ensure that banking services remain available to US Persons residing in Switzerland.
4) To ensure that US citizens who are also citizens of Switzerland, or another country, can renounce or relinquish their US citizenship status to lead a normal life in Switzerland, the US Embassy in Bern is endeavoring to reduce the long leadtimes required to obtain appointments to renounce or relinquish US citizenship.

It would be admirable if Donald Beyer, the US Ambassador to Switzerland, could issue such a statement. It could be posted on the US Embassy's website or could be made through a press release. However, as he has not shown any interest in this topic to-date, it would be foolhardy to be optimistic that he will come to the aid of the average US Person living and working in Switzerland. Perhaps he will be replaced after the November election.
rigggghht... good luck with that
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 24.07.2012, 20:50
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Raiffeisen to terminate all US customers

Quote:
View Post
I would like to see the US Ambassador to Switzerland issue such a statement:

1) The US State Department recognizes that US Persons are being denied banking services in Switzerland as a result of implementation of the extra-territorial US law known as FATCA and the ongoing tax dispute between the US and Switzerland.
2) The US Ambassador to Switzerland would like to express his sympathies for the inconvenience caused by US tax law and the tax dispute to US Persons who reside in Switzerland.
3) The US Embassy is working with Swiss government officials to ensure that banking services remain available to US Persons residing in Switzerland.
4) To ensure that US citizens who are also citizens of Switzerland, or another country, can renounce or relinquish their US citizenship status to lead a normal life in Switzerland, the US Embassy in Bern is endeavoring to reduce the long leadtimes required to obtain appointments to renounce or relinquish US citizenship.

It would be admirable if Donald Beyer, the US Ambassador to Switzerland, could issue such a statement. It could be posted on the US Embassy's website or could be made through a press release. However, as he has not shown any interest in this topic to-date, it would be foolhardy to be optimistic that he will come to the aid of the average US Person living and working in Switzerland. Perhaps he will be replaced after the November election.
We can all have such nice dreams.

US congressmen only understand one language - REELECTION.

ACA's website and writing letters to congressmen and to the US Ambassador to Switzerland and Liechtenstein doesn't constitute a "punch below the belt".

Petition foreign governments to hit US companies with reciprocal corresponding tax charges and give the proceeds back to US expats. This is good for US expats and for foreign governments (US expat money stays in the local economy and US citizens may actually appreciate this and invest more in their countries of residence).

US congressmen will listen very carefully to the key constituents that will get them reelected, particularly those companies (who provide thousands of jobs in their congressional districts) penalized abroad due to reciprocity laws against IRS citizenship-based taxation.

If Congressmen don't listen, then fine, US expats get the money back anyway (taxes, penalties, interest, etc...), and have nothing to worry about.
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 24.07.2012, 21:17
drmom's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Somewhere in SG
Posts: 2,341
Groaned at 12 Times in 12 Posts
Thanked 2,187 Times in 1,050 Posts
drmom has a reputation beyond reputedrmom has a reputation beyond reputedrmom has a reputation beyond reputedrmom has a reputation beyond reputedrmom has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Raiffeisen to terminate all US customers

Quote:
View Post
We can all have such nice dreams.

US congressmen only understand one language - REELECTION.

ACA's website and writing letters to congressmen and to the US Ambassador to Switzerland and Liechtenstein doesn't constitute a "punch below the belt".

Petition foreign governments to hit US companies with reciprocal corresponding tax charges and give the proceeds back to US expats. This is good for US expats and for foreign governments (US expat money stays in the local economy and US citizens may actually appreciate this and invest more in their countries of residence).

US congressmen will listen very carefully to the key constituents that will get them reelected, particularly those companies (who provide thousands of jobs in their congressional districts) penalized abroad due to reciprocity laws against IRS citizenship-based taxation.

If Congressmen don't listen, then fine, US expats get the money back anyway (taxes, penalties, interest, etc...), and have nothing to worry about.
And why would a foreign government care about the plight of US expats, as I really don't see this reciprocal tax charge thing happening?
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank drmom for this useful post:
Reply




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
How to terminate a contract before you start mllongo Employment 14 11.05.2012 12:56
what is best- resigning or allowing employer to terminate contract Dunroaming Employment 60 07.02.2012 08:54
Belated thanks to all who helped us binedave Introductions 0 10.02.2009 13:19
All your base are belong to us Polorise Jokes/funnies 3 22.01.2008 17:21
Help - Landlord wants to terminate contract Hinglish in CH Housing in general 6 17.01.2008 12:08


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 03:51.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0