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  #121  
Old 15.08.2012, 13:00
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Re: Raiffeisen to terminate all US customers

I'm all for US extraterritorial laws if US services are also extraterritorial.

The only thing that will convince me to keep my US passport (which will be trashed soon) is:

-If I see the FBI or US military deployed in Switzerland to ensure American expat security. (Vaud Cantonal police is soft and lame).

-To have US government owned public transportation (24/7) in Lausanne

-To have 24/7 military styled postal exchanges in Switzerland so I can do my shopping and groceries anytime (entrance only for US tax payees).

-To have US public schools in Switzerland

-To have US government banks in CH that maintain CHF accounts that automatically handle all US an CH taxes free of charge to Americans.

-Other services provide the exact same benefit to US residents.

Short of this, the US government is essentially being "UnAmerican" by not walking the talk of the declaration of independence.

Short of this, you can guarantee my US passport will be slammed at a US Embassy very soon in exchange for a CLN.

Only in tyrannies do you pay for nothing in return (aka extortion).
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  #122  
Old 15.08.2012, 13:05
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Re: Raiffeisen to terminate all US customers

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-To have US government owned public transportation (24/7) in Lausanne
US Public transportation, HA, good one
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  #123  
Old 15.08.2012, 15:52
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Re: Raiffeisen to terminate all US customers

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Would it help you if I complicated it up a bit?
If you actually read the original question you will see what I am asking.

It's obvious the the accounts would be closed. I don't think anyone at any point in time didnt understand that part.

My question is what do the banks do with it until you show up? Is there some type of time period that you must do something by this time or we will penalize you or take all your money etc.


so to answer your question yes it would help if you did complicate it up a bit and think before you speak.
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  #124  
Old 15.08.2012, 16:27
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Re: Raiffeisen to terminate all US customers

so to answer your question yes it would help if you did complicate it up a bit and think before you speak.[/QUOTE]


Why all the aggression my friend?
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  #125  
Old 16.08.2012, 15:15
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Re: Raiffeisen to terminate all US customers

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US Public transportation, HA, good one
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-To have US government owned public transportation (24/7) in Lausanne

.
Yes, I can see it now, CFF/SBB taking inspriation from the banking sector...with a new joint venture they offer only Amtrak services to americans in CH. Swiss or other nationalities are free to take the normal efficient CFF/SBB trains however.


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My question is what do the banks do with it until you show up? Is there some type of time period that you must do something by this time or we will penalize you or take all your money etc.
I don't know if this helps you as it was not Raiffeisen, but I know that a bank wanted to offload an american, and they transferred his bank balance to another bank (post finance) where he already had an account. Presumably they will ask where they can transfer your money, but I guess only Raiffeisen can answer that one.
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  #126  
Old 16.08.2012, 22:35
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Re: Raiffeisen to terminate all US customers

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I guess in this global economy one who works aborad feels no allegiance to their home country if they are taxed more, is that what you are saying? I doubt it is. How do I feel about donating to a country I don't live in, but was born in, raised in, have family there, and believe in those ideals, and will live there again?
Key idea is "live there again".

I would never, ever, wish to live again in the US. Last visit was the nail in the coffin.

Also, what's one's home country? Mine is here, where my IMMEDIATE family lives, not my ancestors or cousins! If one's home was based on their ancestry, most Americans wouldn't even be American!

Lastly, how are American ideals any different than Swiss ideals?

Tom
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  #127  
Old 17.08.2012, 05:09
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Re: Raiffeisen to terminate all US customers

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Lastly, how are American ideals any different than Swiss ideals?
Swiss Ideals are arguably way better than American Ideals.

Swiss politicians don't broker with large industrialists to turn a blind eye on the massive inflow of illegal immigrants (cheap labor).

Swiss don't put C Permits and Passports for sale like the US does for those with money.

Swiss don't bitch and moan about the price of gas as if they are entitled to a free commodity.

Swiss manage their economy and finances with a good head.

Swiss don't go to war.
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  #128  
Old 17.08.2012, 10:01
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Re: Raiffeisen to terminate all US customers

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Swiss Ideals are arguably way better than American Ideals.

Swiss politicians don't broker with large industrialists to turn a blind eye on the massive inflow of illegal immigrants (cheap labor).

Swiss don't put C Permits and Passports for sale like the US does for those with money.

Swiss don't bitch and moan about the price of gas as if they are entitled to a free commodity.

Swiss manage their economy and finances with a good head.

Swiss don't go to war.
The Swiss took the American model and made it better in my view.

Taxes are the way a government earns money to pay for the services it provides. I have no problem with that, but why should I still be compelled to contribute to pay for those services I will never use again just because I was born in that country? We live in Switzerland and pay taxes here. We've just inherited a house in the UK, have a business registered there and we go back a couple of times a year so we also pay UK taxes. We have no such ties to the US yet they still want us to help pay for roads, hospitals, etc, just because I was born there? NO WAY.

Someone found an old law and realised it was a good way to tackle the highflyers who take money out of the States to avoid their tax obligations and to try to stem the enormous and growing hole in the government's balance book. Unfortunately, due to idiotic law-making it's causing ordinary US citizens a lot of grief and heartache, isn't likely to catch those intended and won't fill that hole. Only getting on top of the situation with radical budget cuts (do we really need NASA and so much military spending?), a complete overhaul of the system and new economic targets will that hole get any smaller.

America went bust years ago, only the people living there don't realise it. The rest of the world sees with clearer eyes how bad the situation is and how ineffectual the governments are in trying to tackle it.
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  #129  
Old 17.08.2012, 10:16
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Re: Raiffeisen to terminate all US customers

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We've just inherited a house in the UK,
Out of curiosity, did you have to tell the U.S. about this inheritance? And if so, did it affect you in any way? We may be inheriting something soon here and I haven't even begun to look into what this means from our U.S. tax standpoint.
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  #130  
Old 17.08.2012, 10:33
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Re: Raiffeisen to terminate all US customers

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Out of curiosity, did you have to tell the U.S. about this inheritance? And if so, did it affect you in any way? We may be inheriting something soon here and I haven't even begun to look into what this means from our U.S. tax standpoint.
You may wanna trash that little toxic blue book fast!

http://www.greenbacktaxservices.com/...es-for-expats/
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  #131  
Old 17.08.2012, 10:37
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Out of curiosity, did you have to tell the U.S. about this inheritance? And if so, did it affect you in any way? We may be inheriting something soon here and I haven't even begun to look into what this means from our U.S. tax standpoint.
Sorry, I haven't told the US anything because I've never ever filed any US tax returns. I didn't know I was supposed to until all this business about FATCA came up andI don't intend to start now. Although I have some relatives in the States, I have no other ties there and haven't since 1969 so am planning to renounce my citizenship as soon as I can arrange an appointment with the embassy here. I have UK citizenship so won't become stateless.
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  #132  
Old 17.08.2012, 10:43
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Re: Raiffeisen to terminate all US customers

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Sorry, I haven't told the US anything because I've never ever filed any US tax returns. I didn't know I was supposed to until all this business about FATCA came up andI don't intend to start now. Although I have some relatives in the States, I have no other ties there and haven't since 1969 so am planning to renounce my citizenship as soon as I can arrange an appointment with the embassy here. I have UK citizenship so won't become stateless.
Have you looked into relinquishing instead of formally renouncing?

There is a clear difference between both and relinquishing can be more advantageous and quicker.
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  #133  
Old 17.08.2012, 10:49
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Re: Raiffeisen to terminate all US customers

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You may wanna trash that little toxic blue book fast!

http://www.greenbacktaxservices.com/...es-for-expats/
Thanks for the link. I think I need to read up more on the differences between inheritance and gifting. If the person is still alive, but intends on giving away property now, before they die, is this considered in the U.S. gifting, which is tax-free only up to $13,500 per year?
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  #134  
Old 17.08.2012, 10:54
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Re: Raiffeisen to terminate all US customers

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The Swiss took the American model and made it better in my view.

Taxes are the way a government earns money to pay for the services it provides. I have no problem with that, but why should I still be compelled to contribute to pay for those services I will never use again just because I was born in that country? We live in Switzerland and pay taxes here. We've just inherited a house in the UK, have a business registered there and we go back a couple of times a year so we also pay UK taxes. We have no such ties to the US yet they still want us to help pay for roads, hospitals, etc, just because I was born there? NO WAY.

Someone found an old law and realised it was a good way to tackle the highflyers who take money out of the States to avoid their tax obligations and to try to stem the enormous and growing hole in the government's balance book. Unfortunately, due to idiotic law-making it's causing ordinary US citizens a lot of grief and heartache, isn't likely to catch those intended and won't fill that hole. Only getting on top of the situation with radical budget cuts (do we really need NASA and so much military spending?), a complete overhaul of the system and new economic targets will that hole get any smaller.

America went bust years ago, only the people living there don't realise it. The rest of the world sees with clearer eyes how bad the situation is and how ineffectual the governments are in trying to tackle it.
Swiss may have taken some parts of the American model, but have visibly ignored some bad ideas and habits from the US.

1) Exceptionalism, the belief that the US is the best thing since sliced bread and eerybody is dying to live there (hence an argument for taxing expats).

2) Presidential Federal System, which opens the road to too much concentration of power in one person's hand which leads to abuse of authority.

3) Bipartisan Legislative Representation, very old, shortsighted and uncomprehensive way of lawmaking. We can all see the result: badly formulated laws due to bad proportional representation in government (FATCA, tax laws, PATRIOT act, inability to fix deficit spending and total inaction in many areas).
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  #135  
Old 17.08.2012, 11:00
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Re: Raiffeisen to terminate all US customers

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The Swiss took the American model and made it better in my view.
I am not sure that is possible given the Swiss confederacy started in 1291.

America likes to call itself a democracy, and promote democracy around the world, but what is does is more like hypocrisy.

And I mean this in so many ways beyond just the tax issue we are discussing. For example, take Julien Assange, the bastion of free speech, who is being witchhunted by the US using Sweden as its satellite. Yes, America is all for free-speech, transparency, and the like; just make sure this applies only to Syria, Iran, Cuba, etc... and how dare anyone do the same to the US.
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  #136  
Old 17.08.2012, 11:18
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Have you looked into relinquishing instead of formally renouncing?

There is a clear difference between both and relinquishing can be more advantageous and quicker.
Yes, I did brusch. My theory was/is that even though I have had British nationality since birth I have never sworn an oath of British alligence. If I did this at the British embassy it would be a voluntary act which meets the criteria set out below:

(a) A person who is a national of the United States whether by birth or naturalization, shall lose his nationality by voluntarily performing any of the following acts with the intention of relinquishing United States nationality—
(1) obtaining naturalization in a foreign state upon his own application or upon an application filed by a duly authorized agent, after having attained the age of eighteen years; or
(2) taking an oath or making an affirmation or other formal declaration of allegiance to a foreign state or a political subdivision thereof, after having attained the age of eighteen years;

However, looking at the websites for the embassy here and the Home Office it seems the oaths can only be done in the UK, although admittedly I haven't asked at the embassy here if they could do it. Given the time, hassle and cost of a trip to the UK to take said oath I decided renuciation would be just as quick.

For anyone who wants to understand the differences then look at www.isaacbrocksociety.ca which has a wealth of info on this and other matters pretaining to FATCA, FBAR, etc. There is a blog there on relinquishing rather than renouncing and how to go about it. Also the www.renunciationguide.com is another useful source for those thinking about giving up their US citizenship.
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  #137  
Old 17.08.2012, 11:25
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I am not sure that is possible given the Swiss confederacy started in 1291.
Yes, but Switzerland remodelled it's political system after Napoleon was defeated and they used the US Constitutional model to design their own. Wiki's words:

The groundwork for today's Swiss Constitution was laid with the promulgation of the Constitution of 12 September 1848, which was influenced by the ideas of the constitution of the United States of America and the French Revolution. This constitution provided for the cantons' sovereignty, as long as this did not impinge on the Federal Constitution. This constitution was created in response to a 27-day civil war in Switzerland, the Sonderbundskrieg.
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  #138  
Old 17.08.2012, 11:38
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Re: Raiffeisen to terminate all US customers

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I decided renuciation would be just as quick
However, as far as I know they are now requiring copies of US tax forms from the past several years in order to renounce, somewhat problematic for those who haven't been filing them!

Tom
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Old 17.08.2012, 11:49
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However, as far as I know they are now requiring copies of US tax forms from the past several years in order to renounce, somewhat problematic for those who haven't been filing them!

Tom
http://travel.state.gov/law/citizens...nship_776.html

E. TAX & MILITARY OBLIGATIONS /NO ESCAPE FROM PROSECUTION

Also, persons who wish to renounce U.S. citizenship should also be aware that the fact that a person has renounced U.S. citizenship may have no effect whatsoever on his or her U.S. tax or military service obligations (contact the Internal Revenue Service or U.S. Selective Service for more information). In addition, the act of renouncing U.S. citizenship will not allow persons to avoid possible prosecution for crimes which they may have committed in the United States, or escape the repayment of financial obligations previously incurred in the United States or incurred as United States citizens abroad.


If the above is understood correctly, proof of tax compliance is not required to renounce. However if you renounce and are not compliant with taxes, then you may have to avoid the US indefinitely unless you can secure a presidential pardon like Mr. Rich .

Relinquishing is shorter (1 appointment if I understand it right), no fee and no oath required at the Consulate/Embassy. Also, if you relinquish and the effective date is a long time ago, CLN will be backdated to when the expatriating act occurred, meaning you are not liable to any taxes since your backdated CLN was supposed to be issued.
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  #140  
Old 17.08.2012, 12:44
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Re: Raiffeisen to terminate all US customers

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However, as far as I know they are now requiring copies of US tax forms from the past several years in order to renounce, somewhat problematic for those who haven't been filing them!

Tom
I know someone who relinquished in the last 12 months. Born in USA to Canadian parents, left when she was 3 months old. Has never filed US tax returns and had no issue handing back her US passport.

It might be different if you started filing taxes at some point and the IRS had you in their system but this was her example.
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