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  #161  
Old 23.08.2012, 18:09
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Re: Raiffeisen to terminate all US customers

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...you can't renounce unless you can prove that you have filed tax returns for the past few years...
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However, as far as I know they are now requiring copies of US tax forms from the past several years in order to renounce...
Not true. I am personally acquainted with an individual who renounced just 3 months ago, received a CLN, and wasn't asked even once for any tax-related info.

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...Americans are Un American if they resign from being Americans. What else would they be?...
Americans who opt out of the vassal relationship with the US government that is an inherent 'feature' of US citizenship today.
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  #162  
Old 23.08.2012, 22:05
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Re: Raiffeisen to terminate all US customers

Which box did he tick on the renunciation form re being tax compliant Texaner? If it was no he may be in for a shock later on. They don't ask for any tax stuff during renunciation, the onus is on the renunciant to make sure he complys with the law and just because he's got a CLN it doesn't mean he's clear. I'd tell him to check the IRS website to make sure he's in the clear or not.
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  #163  
Old 23.08.2012, 22:39
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Re: Raiffeisen to terminate all US customers

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Which box did he tick on the renunciation form re being tax compliant Texaner?...
The documents executed at the renunciation event were returned to this individual with the CLN and cancelled passport. On none of the documents was there a box to tick regarding taxes or tax compliance...

Like I said, the subject of taxes never arose, whether in verbal or written form, except for the standard State Department informational notice that renunciation "may have no effect whatsoever on his or her U.S. tax obligations".
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  #164  
Old 23.08.2012, 23:59
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Re: Raiffeisen to terminate all US customers

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The documents executed at the renunciation event were returned to this individual with the CLN and cancelled passport. On none of the documents was there a box to tick regarding taxes or tax compliance...

Like I said, the subject of taxes never arose, whether in verbal or written form, except for the standard State Department informational notice that renunciation "may have no effect whatsoever on his or her U.S. tax obligations".
Question 13(e) on the Request for Determination of Possible Loss of United States Citizenship application form which he filled in: Do you file US income or other tax returns? Yes/No. If Yes, please explain.

And yes, informational notice that renunciation "may have no effect whatsoever on his or her US tax obligations" means if he hasn't filed or is non-compliant in any way they can come after him regardless of that piece of paper. They could fine him $10,000 which, admittedly is difficult to collect from Swiss end, but they could also put his name on a future list of people wanted for tax evasion. Turn up at a US airport and he might be arrested. Theorical at the moment, but certainly not impossible in the future.
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  #165  
Old 24.08.2012, 09:43
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Re: Raiffeisen to terminate all US customers

Below is a link to a well-written letter called "Letter of a Canadian businessman to his dual U.S./Canada citizen son on the occasion of his high school graduation". The son is an "accidental American", born to a Canadian family while the father was a student in California. It could be interpreted as an apology to his son for inadvertently giving him this burden in life:

http://renounceuscitizenship.wordpre...ol-graduation/
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  #166  
Old 24.08.2012, 18:06
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Re: Raiffeisen to terminate all US customers

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Question 13(e) on the Request for Determination of Possible Loss of United States Citizenship application form which he filled in...
He 'filled in' no such form. In fact, he hadn't seen a 'Request for Determination of Possible Loss of United States Citizenship application form' until I Googled it and showed it to him.

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...if he hasn't filed or is non-compliant in any way they can come after him ... he might be arrested...
Why all this scare mongering? The guy has filed every year. He is compliant.

Anyway, arrest ordinarily follows criminal charges (so far), which involves substantially more than merely not filing. And (so far) there are statutory, due process, and procedural requirements (see here, here, and here, for example).
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  #167  
Old 24.08.2012, 19:55
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Re: Raiffeisen to terminate all US customers

Wonder what he filled in for the application then? That's the only one as far as I know. Did he renounce here in Switzerland or elsewhere? I wouldn't have thought countries had different forms though. If he has his other one, it would be interesting to compare.

Not trying to scare-monger, especially if he is compliant. I had the impression from him saying he wasn't asked for any tax info that he wasn't so sorry about that.
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  #168  
Old 24.08.2012, 21:41
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Re: Raiffeisen to terminate all US customers

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Wonder what he filled in for the application then? That's the only one as far as I know. Did he renounce here in Switzerland or elsewhere?
There were 2 documents: a 'renunciation of nationality' and a 'statement of understanding'. (The questionnaire you cited — the filling out of which it says itself is voluntary — only contains a 'voluntary relinquishment' section, not renunciation, so not only is it not 'the only one' used for renunciations, it cannot be used to execute a renunciation(!).) I believe he did it in Frankfurt.

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...Not trying to scare-monger...
I just wouldn't know what else to call a string of hypothetical 'cans', 'coulds' and 'mights' including 'arrest' threats and 'lists of people wanted' — when arrests are predicated strictly on criminal charges, which require substantially more than simply not filing, and a range of easier-to-adjudicate and administratively-handled civil offenses exist somewhere in between.
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Last edited by Texaner; 24.08.2012 at 21:42. Reason: typo
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  #169  
Old 28.08.2012, 22:26
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Re: Raiffeisen to terminate all US customers

The Canadian website "Maple Sandbox" carries an unpublished opinion letter sent to the Washington Post by the Canadian Bankers Association called: "Canada is Not a Tax Haven: FATCA Needs to Reflect That". It likens FATCA to using a drift net and may be worth reading:

http://maplesandbox.ca/letter-from-c...not-published/

As a comment, it appears that Canada is one of the few nations that still values its sovereignty.
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  #170  
Old 31.08.2012, 10:56
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Re: Raiffeisen to terminate all US customers

The Tages-Anzeiger newspaper reports today that the largest state-owned bank, Zürcher Kantonalbank, is not renewing mortgages of US Persons at time of renewal. Excerpt (translated):

ZKB spokeswoman Evelyne Brönnimann confirmed: "Fixed or Libor mortgages of US Persons are not renewed in principle at the end of the term and can therefore be considered terminated." US Persons are not only citizens of the United States, but also dual citizens or Swiss, residing in the U.S...."

The discrimination against Americans continues in Switzerland.

http://www.tagesanzeiger.ch/wirtscha...story/22681930
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  #171  
Old 01.09.2012, 17:38
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Re: Raiffeisen to terminate all US customers

Evidently it only take 1 visit to the US embassy here in Bern to do the renounciation process. Make an appointment, fill in the forms, take the oath of renunciation and that's it. Certificate of Loss of Nationality will be in the post at some future date. Good news for those wanting to take this step as I know some other US embassies insist on a waiting period so you can reflect on the serious step you're planning to take. As if you haven't already.
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  #172  
Old 01.09.2012, 19:01
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Re: Raiffeisen to terminate all US customers

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Evidently it only take 1 visit to the US embassy here in Bern to do the renounciation process. Make an appointment, fill in the forms, take the oath of renunciation and that's it. Certificate of Loss of Nationality will be in the post at some future date. Good news for those wanting to take this step as I know some other US embassies insist on a waiting period so you can reflect on the serious step you're planning to take. As if you haven't already.
Same is true @ Frankfurt consulate: Make appt., show up, do the deed, finished.
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  #173  
Old 01.09.2012, 19:20
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Re: Raiffeisen to terminate all US customers

That is my experience.

In fact, I found them all nice and pleasant as well.

Didn't have any problems going to the US as a foreigner, either.

Tom
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