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View Poll Results: Which company?
Amazon 45 30.41%
Apple 32 21.62%
Facebook 12 8.11%
Google 59 39.86%
Voters: 148. You may not vote on this poll

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  #421  
Old 07.08.2020, 23:23
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Re: Stock investment poll

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Any of the mentioned stocks would have been a fine investment.
Imagine a portfolio composed of Exxon, Simon Property, Deutsche Bank and General Electric instead
maybe if you bought xom and spg now, it might also turn out quite well in 7 years...
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  #422  
Old 08.08.2020, 11:30
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i have no real knowledge of the car market.
You're looking at the wrong market. Tesla is not a car company. Think energy and software, not cars. That's why it's undervalued, even at today's prices.
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  #423  
Old 08.08.2020, 11:39
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Re: Stock investment poll

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You're looking at the wrong market. Tesla is not a car company. Think energy and software, not cars. That's why it's undervalued, even at today's prices.
Tesla are also a solar company. They are a factory builder for EVs and will likely be building for other manufacturers soon. Probably most important they are a battery manufacturer - watch 2021...
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  #424  
Old 08.08.2020, 11:54
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Tesla are also a solar company. They are a factory builder for EVs and will likely be building for other manufacturers soon. Probably most important they are a battery manufacturer - watch 2021...
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Think energy and software, not cars.
Yep, solar, batteries = energy.
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  #425  
Old 08.08.2020, 12:01
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Re: Stock investment poll

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You're looking at the wrong market. Tesla is not a car company. Think energy and software, not cars. That's why it's undervalued, even at today's prices.
yes. i'm well aware of the different components of tesla.
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  #426  
Old 08.08.2020, 12:22
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Re: Stock investment poll

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yes. i'm well aware of the different components of tesla.
PE of 750 is at least lower than the PE of Bitcoin
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  #427  
Old 08.08.2020, 20:58
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Re: Stock investment poll

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i never liked gpro and snap, but held also adi and xlnx.

I sold both to go all in on AMD though. with intel 7nm mis-steps, they have at least a 1 year clear runway to take market share.
Intel makes a ridiculous amount of money, and is massively undervalued (compared to AMD, that is). The cloud infra part is doing very well where AMD can't touch them. The server landscape is basically Intel only. The corporate laptop market is mostly intel only. Home PC gamers do not constitute such a large population, I think. They lost the mobile race to Qualcomm/ARM and just trying to get on the 5G bandwagon, but that's also not AMD territory.

AMD will grow on the new consoles PS4/XBox next gen, the desktop gaming and some laptop scene, but when Intel catches up (and I hope they eventually do), the overvalued fat lady will stop singing, I think.

The chip race will surely continue on the mobile side, where Qualcomm seems to have a huge advantage so far.

Last edited by user137; 08.08.2020 at 21:12.
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  #428  
Old 08.08.2020, 21:01
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Re: Stock investment poll

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Tesla.

And it's not a share, but while Bitcoin is trading at half its 2017 peak, it's still waaaaay undervalued -- even at >$10,000.
undervalued to what exactly? it's not a company, it doesn't make any cash, it does not represent any economic power like actual currencies, it's basically a useless hype - the only real goal of the thing is to finance the darknet and lounder shady money/ransomware/terrorists.
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  #429  
Old 08.08.2020, 21:10
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Re: Stock investment poll

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You're looking at the wrong market. Tesla is not a car company. Think energy and software, not cars. That's why it's undervalued, even at today's prices.
it's way overvalued among tech companies as well. (PE on 500+ vs MSFT under 50).

and it's across the roof among energy companies.

try again
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  #430  
Old 08.08.2020, 22:35
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Re: Stock investment poll

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Intel makes a ridiculous amount of money, and is massively undervalued (compared to AMD, that is). The cloud infra part is doing very well where AMD can't touch them. The server landscape is basically Intel only. The corporate laptop market is mostly intel only. Home PC gamers do not constitute such a large population, I think. They lost the mobile race to Qualcomm/ARM and just trying to get on the 5G bandwagon, but that's also not AMD territory.

AMD will grow on the new consoles PS4/XBox next gen, the desktop gaming and some laptop scene, but when Intel catches up (and I hope they eventually do), the overvalued fat lady will stop singing, I think.

The chip race will surely continue on the mobile side, where Qualcomm seems to have a huge advantage so far.
i was also an investor with intel but sold the position.

they are massive and have huge resources. i agree they basically own >90% of the datacenter server market and a whole chunk of PC and laptop market.

however, this is also their weakness. i would not be surprised if in the next 3 years AMD manage to take >30% of the server market forcing intel to lose market share and margin to compete.

we'll see how well amd manage to compete in the laptop market. it is early days and AMD have an uphill battle. but intel also has risks. if AMD manage to establish themselves as a long term competitor it could severely impact intels monopoly margins.

still, my plan was to wait a couple of years when AMD gains market share and sentiment for intel is lowest before looking perhaps to buy back into intel...
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  #431  
Old 09.08.2020, 00:44
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PE of 750 is at least lower than the PE of Bitcoin
Also of USD, GBP, CHF, ...
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  #432  
Old 09.08.2020, 00:49
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undervalued to what exactly? it's not a company, it doesn't make any cash, it does not represent any economic power like actual currencies, it's basically a useless hype - the only real goal of the thing is to finance the darknet and lounder shady money/ransomware/terrorists.
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it's way overvalued among tech companies as well. (PE on 500+ vs MSFT under 50).

and it's across the roof among energy companies.

try again
Here's an idea: how about you don't buy any BTC or Tesla stock? That way you'll be completely safe!
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  #433  
Old 09.08.2020, 16:30
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Re: Stock investment poll

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undervalued to what exactly? it's not a company, it doesn't make any cash, it does not represent any economic power like actual currencies, it's basically a useless hype - the only real goal of the thing is to finance the darknet and lounder shady money/ransomware/terrorists.
Perhaps look at it from a user's POV. Not spending amount xy is equivalent to increasing your earnings by the same amount. BTX doesn't generate cash but it helps save it which is just as well. Cutting out the middlemen removes frictions and costs when transferring monies. It may improve speed as well, even though BTX transactions often take a day or two to settle. And remaining anonymous may be valuable as well.

However, with fintech steadily gaining ground those advantages keep getting smaller, at least for legal businesses in the west. And if concepts like Libra become reality there's even less of an advantage.
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  #434  
Old 10.08.2020, 01:18
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Re: Stock investment poll

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Perhaps look at it from a user's POV. Not spending amount xy is equivalent to increasing your earnings by the same amount. BTX doesn't generate cash but it helps save it which is just as well. Cutting out the middlemen removes frictions and costs when transferring monies. It may improve speed as well, even though BTX transactions often take a day or two to settle. And remaining anonymous may be valuable as well.

However, with fintech steadily gaining ground those advantages keep getting smaller, at least for legal businesses in the west. And if concepts like Libra become reality there's even less of an advantage.
The only concept like Libra at the moment is Libra. And I don't think too many BTC holders or users will be losing much sleep over the idea of introducing multiple new currencies that are simply redundant alternatives to existing national currencies. https://www.ft.com/content/79376464-...4-9f308acaf83b
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  #435  
Old 10.08.2020, 10:09
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Re: Stock investment poll

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The only concept like Libra at the moment is Libra. And I don't think too many BTC holders or users will be losing much sleep over the idea of introducing multiple new currencies that are simply redundant alternatives to existing national currencies. https://www.ft.com/content/79376464-...4-9f308acaf83b
Libra doesn't target the west where having a bank account is the norm. It's for the less-developed world where storing value is difficult or impossible.
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  #436  
Old 10.08.2020, 13:19
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Re: Stock investment poll

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Perhaps look at it from a user's POV. Not spending amount xy is equivalent to increasing your earnings by the same amount. BTX doesn't generate cash but it helps save it which is just as well.
it's a lottery ticket at best, spanning from 400 to 20k to 3k to 11k in the last 3 years. You can very well lose money just as fast.

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Cutting out the middlemen removes frictions and costs when transferring monies. It may improve speed as well, even though BTX transactions often take a day or two to settle.
BTC transactions are ridiculously slow compared to normal financial payments of the "regular" world. And still, we are burning away the natural resources of the Earth at an unprecedented rate to keep up this system. A very bad cost/benefit ratio.

There's a lot of free money out there and sure, some people will get the hype, a lot of them will get super rich by trading a ghost (also look at: Nikola Motors, the company with zero products and a 700% percent increase in stock price before it just fell by 50% again - pure lottery).

I get the blockchain concept and it's great. Just not for monetary reasons. We already have a system that works way better.
(in hindsight, probably the coach drivers said this as well in 1850 We will see where we stand in 10 yrs)

Last edited by user137; 10.08.2020 at 13:38.
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  #437  
Old 10.08.2020, 13:23
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Re: Stock investment poll

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Here's an idea: how about you don't buy any BTC or Tesla stock? That way you'll be completely safe!
BTC is not a stock, is it?
I owned TSLA when it was 140 USD, unfortunately dropped it way early.
It's not about me being safe or risk averse, my posts were about correcting factual mistakes in comments.

Tesla is a unicorn and neither a software company (albeit being closer here) nor a utility company (definitely not), nor an automotive company (though it looks like it). This could probably explain why it doesn't fit any of the other 3's valuation norms.

Last edited by user137; 10.08.2020 at 13:39.
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  #438  
Old 10.08.2020, 13:42
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Re: Stock investment poll

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i was also an investor with intel but sold the position.

they are massive and have huge resources. i agree they basically own >90% of the datacenter server market and a whole chunk of PC and laptop market.

however, this is also their weakness. i would not be surprised if in the next 3 years AMD manage to take >30% of the server market forcing intel to lose market share and margin to compete.

we'll see how well amd manage to compete in the laptop market. it is early days and AMD have an uphill battle. but intel also has risks. if AMD manage to establish themselves as a long term competitor it could severely impact intels monopoly margins.

still, my plan was to wait a couple of years when AMD gains market share and sentiment for intel is lowest before looking perhaps to buy back into intel...
The problem with anything high-end in IT is that the market is extremely vulnerable to disruptive innovation, and the smallest mis-gamble by any of the large incumbents could irreversibly reshuffle the cards. The history of IT is peppered with fallen flags.
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  #439  
Old 10.08.2020, 17:31
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The problem with anything high-end in IT is that the market is extremely vulnerable to disruptive innovation, and the smallest mis-gamble by any of the large incumbents could irreversibly reshuffle the cards. The history of IT is peppered with fallen flags.
sure, however, Microsoft, Intel, Apple and Facebook (just to name a few) will not just disappear into the void. And all of them have massive amounts of free cash at hand to either buy the disruptors or be the disruptors themselves.
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  #440  
Old 10.08.2020, 19:23
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BTC is not a stock, is it?
No, who said it was? But anyway, surely you don't invest exclusively in the stock market? Diversification...

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Tesla is a unicorn and neither a software company (albeit being closer here) nor a utility company (definitely not), nor an automotive company (though it looks like it). This could probably explain why it doesn't fit any of the other 3's valuation norms.
Tesla has developed significant IP (not all of which has been made freely available) in the field of software. It is a supplier to utilities (massive battery arrays in Australia, for example), manufacturers (automotive, marine and possibly aviation at some point), as well as direct to consumers (solar panels, solar roof tiles). It is self-evidently and inarguably also an automotive company, manufacturing most of its products' components in-house, but this will ultimately most likely be the least significant part of its overall operations.
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