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  #221  
Old 21.11.2010, 22:04
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Re: 3rd Pillar Pension Fund

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Oh I see, I misunderstood, but now I get you.

Although it's the first I've heard of it, very interesting - no-one's ever said that we could pay n x 6,566 CHFs and just declare one account. The letter I got just this week from UBS as a 'don't forget to pay into your pension prompt' says:

"We would like to take this opportunity to remind you that you can make the following maximum payments into pillar 3a in 2010:

- 6,566 CHFs for employed persons with an occupational pension fund or
- 20% of employment income (up to 32,832 CHFs) for employed persons without an occupational fund"

And then a load of stuff about tax benefits, but nothing at all about making as many payments as you want but only claiming one sum of 6,566 against tax. They know we have two accounts, obviously - they recommended that much for the reasons you suggest - and have sent us two copies of this letter with attached orange slips, but were keen at the set-up to make sure that we understood that the total could be divided across the accounts each year but never exceeded.

But clearly you've been stashing away multiple annual 6,566es into multiple accounts (is this all with the same provider, by the way - just wondering if it's spread across providers and they just don't realise you're paying into more than one..?). Hmmm... anyone else doing this too?
An "employee" can put away tax deferred 6,xxxCHF. An independent contractor can put in up to 20% of their income. This is because an employee get company contributions were as an independent contractor does not.

Last edited by miniMia; 21.11.2010 at 22:39.
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  #222  
Old 13.12.2010, 01:16
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Re: 3rd Pillar Pension Fund

Hello everyone!

For me, tax is automatically deducted from my salary and I don't need to fill a tax return. So for this case, what is the procedure to claim the money back? Is there a form I need to fill?

Thanks.
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  #223  
Old 14.12.2010, 18:15
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Re: 3rd Pillar Pension Fund

Hi, I'm taking a look at pillar 3a. In summary I understand the benefits are:
  • Tax relief at marginal rate on income
  • Tax free income on savings
  • Save wealth tax on assets at marginal rate
  • Interest rate is better than 10y swiss govt bond yields (i.e. better than a savings account)
Disadvantages are:
  • Money is tied up
  • Can only be withdrawn when leaving country / buying house
  • Limited chance to invest in a few (very expensive) funds.
I understand from this thread, that when you withdraw funds to leave the country, the money is taxed at approx 7% (I'm in ZH). From postfinance website, it also seems the money is taxed if you use it as a deposit on a house. Does anyone know what tax rate applies in this case?

Also - if I leave the country, to go to the UK for example, is there a possibility I will be liable to pay UK taxes on the money? I guess I should be able to transfer the money into a UK pension fund, but what really sells this to me is the chance to pay only 7% income tax.

@daredreamer - the answer to your question is in post #144 on this very thread - 3rd Pillar Pension Fund
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  #224  
Old 14.12.2010, 23:05
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Re: 3rd Pillar Pension Fund

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Disadvantages are:
  • Money is tied up
  • Can only be withdrawn when leaving country / buying house
  • Limited chance to invest in a few (very expensive) funds.
There's one more: Unless you plan to withdraw the money within the next few years, you don't know for sure how it will be taxed once you withdraw it.
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  #225  
Old 15.12.2010, 10:27
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Re: 3rd Pillar Pension Fund

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There's one more: Unless you plan to withdraw the money within the next few years, you don't know for sure how it will be taxed once you withdraw it.
which is a good reason to have more than one 3a account. when you reach retirement age and must cash in the accounts you can spread the income tax hit (on cashing in) over several years.
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  #226  
Old 15.12.2010, 13:37
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Re: 3rd Pillar Pension Fund

Very interesting thread!

Thanks
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  #227  
Old 16.12.2010, 22:13
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Re: 3rd Pillar Pension Fund

I was wondering if anyone has used www.pens3a.ch ?
The layout of the web page and the marketing sure seem like the ideal solution for anyone preparing to leave CH.

Can anyone vouch for the 'ease' of use of Pens3a?

Thanks in advance!


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The pillar Pens3a (www.pens3a.ch) is located in the canton of Schwyz with the lowest tax at source rate.

Tax at rate tarif depends on the headquarter of the foundation.
To pay the less tax at source after having left Switzerland permanently, it makes sense to sort out what is the effectif tax at source to pay in this canton. Depending on the amount one canton might be cheaper than the other....as one canton wants to privilege amounts up to 40k, others the one up to 60 and so on.

One point has not to be forgotten: Usually, when you have a 3rd pillar to withdraw, you have usually as well a vested benefit from the second pillar to withdraw....then the wholw situation is changing anyway....
The amounts (3rd + 2nd) pillars become bigger and the tax at source tarif of the canton of Schwyz will certainly be the cheappest.

Therefore, www.pens3a.ch has a sister foundation www.pensfree.ch which is as well headquarterd in the canton of Schwyz. From personal experiences it is very convenient and easy from the point of administration and taxes to do both withdrawal simultaneously(2nd + 3a) through them. Of course, each situation is personal and different things has to be checked. It is worth to check it.
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  #228  
Old 20.12.2010, 12:59
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Re: 3rd Pillar Pension Fund

Taking Pillar 3a to the UK

This is more of a question about UK tax which will no doubt affect many on this forum. I've seen it asked a couple of times but not answered. Does anyone know whether I have a UK tax liability on my cashed-out pillar 3 investment? And what about the interest earned since my return to the UK ?

I lived in Switzerland for 5 years, then returned to the UK in 2005. Planning to leave my Swiss pension intact until retirement I left my pillar 2 and 3 alone and didn't declare the interest on my tax return since it was a blocked account which would be taxed during my retirement. Anyway, deciding to buy a house in the UK I've been forced to cash out my pillar 3 and have be charged 6% in the process (no big deal). The question now is.. what about the UK tax liability ? I understand that there are the ESC A10 concessions but these seem to apply to retirees and perhaps affect pillar 2 more. I have also been sent the relevant forms to allow me to reclaim the 6% witholding tax from the Swiss tax office. This implies that I can reclaim the swiss tax given that the UK would then tax me a much larger amount.

Any help greatly appreciated!!
Chad.
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  #229  
Old 21.12.2010, 23:41
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Re: 3rd Pillar Pension Fund

can a US 401k be 'rolled over' to a similar type fund here and if so is it considered a roll over, meaning there is not the same big penalty of cashing out early the funds?
I am looking at using it as collateral for a home purchase.
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  #230  
Old 03.03.2011, 02:52
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Re: 3rd Pillar Pension Fund

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Hello everyone!

For me, tax is automatically deducted from my salary and I don't need to fill a tax return. So for this case, what is the procedure to claim the money back? Is there a form I need to fill?

Thanks.
i've found this around
http://www.steueramt.zh.ch/cgi-bin/g...d75b5869bc.pdf
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  #231  
Old 13.03.2011, 12:47
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Re: 3rd Pillar Pension Fund

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Technically it is not a tax return but a request to correct the tax at source at the end of the year, a sort of claim back. You do this with a simple forma and not a tax declaration.

http://www.steueramt.zh.ch/html/form...ntrag-e01r.pdf
Does anyone know what the equivalent form for kanton Basel-Landschaft is? I looked on the BL tax amt site but could not figure out which form I should use.
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  #232  
Old 15.03.2011, 21:22
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Re: 3rd Pillar Pension Fund

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Does anyone know what the equivalent form for kanton Basel-Landschaft is?
Answering my own question. "Antrag auf anteilmässige Rückerstattung der Quellensteuer"
http://www.baselland.ch/main_formula....273594.0.html
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  #233  
Old 17.03.2011, 23:31
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Re: 3rd Pillar Pension Fund

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Answering my own question. "Antrag auf anteilmässige Rückerstattung der Quellensteuer"
http://www.baselland.ch/main_formula....273594.0.html
Does anyone know what the equivalent form for Canton de Vaud? Many thanks!
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  #234  
Old 18.03.2011, 00:05
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Re: 3rd Pillar Pension Fund

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Does anyone know what the equivalent form for Canton de Vaud? Many thanks!
Found it in How to do your tax return in Vaud

http://www.vd.ch/fileadmin/user_uplo...ation_2010.pdf
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  #235  
Old 23.03.2011, 21:05
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Re: 3rd Pillar Pension Fund

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can a US 401k be 'rolled over' to a similar type fund here and if so is it considered a roll over, meaning there is not the same big penalty of cashing out early the funds?
I am looking at using it as collateral for a home purchase.
I'm not sure about a Swiss account, but within the US, you should be able to do a conversion from a 401k to a Roth IRA (taxable conversion, but not at exorbitant rates), then take a loan from your Roth funds for a home purchase. See IRS Pub. 590 for more details on the conversion process.
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  #236  
Old 13.04.2011, 22:37
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Re: 3rd Pillar Pension Fund

I'm looking for a 3rd pillar pension fund that invests a significant portion in Equities and has low charges. CS has several index based funds that charge 0.78%. Can anyone suggest any similar products with lower charges?
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  #237  
Old 14.04.2011, 00:36
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Re: 3rd Pillar Pension Fund

There's a table on Pillar 3a funds and deposit accounts in the NZZ yesterday.

I'll post it later.
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  #238  
Old 18.04.2011, 13:29
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Re: 3rd Pillar Pension Fund

Thanks for the excellent info including the Q&A on 3rd pillar.

I have a related question, not sure if it is already covered somewhere...did I miss it along the way??

We have just received our tax forms for 2009...one year too late
I am wondering if we can put money in our 3rd pillar retroactively for 2009 to save tax??

Appreciate any info that the experts might have!
Thanks in advance
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  #239  
Old 18.04.2011, 13:33
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Re: 3rd Pillar Pension Fund

99.9% certain that you cannot
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  #240  
Old 18.04.2011, 14:01
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Re: 3rd Pillar Pension Fund

Thanks, Jaudi
That`s too bad
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