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  #241  
Old 09.09.2011, 11:28
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Re: 3rd Pillar Pension Fund

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I am wondering if we can put money in our 3rd pillar retroactively for 2009 to save tax??
that would be TOOOOOOO good
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  #242  
Old 09.09.2011, 11:34
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Re: 3rd Pillar Pension Fund

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I am wondering if we can put money in our 3rd pillar retroactively for 2009 to save tax??
that would be TOOOOOOO good
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  #243  
Old 09.09.2011, 13:40
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Re: 3rd Pillar Pension Fund

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Thanks for the excellent info including the Q&A on 3rd pillar.

I have a related question, not sure if it is already covered somewhere...did I miss it along the way??

We have just received our tax forms for 2009...one year too late
I am wondering if we can put money in our 3rd pillar retroactively for 2009 to save tax??

Appreciate any info that the experts might have!
Thanks in advance
It's not like the US where you have until tax filing day the following year to make some adjustments. Every financial institution publishes the latest dates you need to post money for it to be recognized in the year in question. Usually Dec. 27th/29th at the latest.

At least you know the effect on your taxes of socking away for the future.
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  #244  
Old 09.09.2011, 13:42
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Re: 3rd Pillar Pension Fund

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Hi, I'm taking a look at pillar 3a. In summary I understand the benefits are:
  • Tax relief at marginal rate on income
  • Tax free income on savings
  • Save wealth tax on assets at marginal rate
  • Interest rate is better than 10y swiss govt bond yields (i.e. better than a savings account)
Disadvantages are:
  • Money is tied up
  • Can only be withdrawn when leaving country / buying house
  • Limited chance to invest in a few (very expensive) funds.
I understand from this thread, that when you withdraw funds to leave the country, the money is taxed at approx 7% (I'm in ZH). From postfinance website, it also seems the money is taxed if you use it as a deposit on a house. Does anyone know what tax rate applies in this case?

Also - if I leave the country, to go to the UK for example, is there a possibility I will be liable to pay UK taxes on the money? I guess I should be able to transfer the money into a UK pension fund, but what really sells this to me is the chance to pay only 7% income tax.

@daredreamer - the answer to your question is in post #144 on this very thread - 3rd Pillar Pension Fund
If the Swiss tax the withdrawal as deferred income, then you would need to find out your UK liability under the double taxation agreement. If you're lucky it'll be at the lower Capital Gains rate. Ask a UK accountant/tax advisor.
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  #245  
Old 09.09.2011, 13:53
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Re: 3rd Pillar Pension Fund

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An "employee" can put away tax deferred 6,xxxCHF. An independent contractor can put in up to 20% of their income. This is because an employee get company contributions were as an independent contractor does not.
Not directly, perhaps it's best to compare the Self-employed versus Employed scenario for taxes and pensions in CH:

For employees:
AHV: Shared between employer and employee
2nd Pillar: Employer contribution, usually compulsorily provided depending on company size, salary, part-/fulltime status and age
3a Pillar: Yearly Tax decuctibale max 6682 (2011)
3b Pillar: Tax deductible to a max each year (approx 2400 cantonal, 1700 federal)
Other deductions: Limited

For self-employed:
AHV: Pay both contributions: 10-11%
2nd Pillar: Not compulsory
3a Pillar: 20% of taxable income less dividends
3b Pillar: same as employee
Other deductions: Wider but affects 20% 3a calculation limit

Note: both 3a and 3b can be deducted in a year subject to each one's individual max (you can't add the 3b limit to the 3a limit or vice versa).

Some cantons (like BL) allow additional retirement savings deductible for cantonal/local taxes only, however these may not also be applicable at both federal and Gemeinde level.
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  #246  
Old 09.09.2011, 13:57
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Re: 3rd Pillar Pension Fund

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For employees:
2nd Pillar: Employer contribution, usually compulsorily provided depending on company size, salary, part-/fulltime status and age
No, it's also shared (1/2 employee, 1/2 employer).

Tom
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  #247  
Old 09.09.2011, 14:01
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Re: 3rd Pillar Pension Fund

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No, it's also shared (1/2 employee, 1/2 employer).

Tom
That's what "for Employee->Employer contribution" was meant to signify. Secondly there are circumstances where an employer doesn't have to contribute:

1. You are over 65 (64 for women) (although AHV must still be paid by both employer and employee even if they are not counted for entitlements)
2. You are under 25
3. Your pensionable salary is not above approx 20880 p.a. (may now be 24360)
4. It's not compulsory for the employer to contribute for the salary above 82580 (may now be 83520) most do but it can be at different rates

Other conditions may apply. (eg earliest retirement is 58, latest 70 and there are contribution limits including catchup limits for those arriving in CH for the first time on or after 01.01.2006)

Secondly it isn't always 50-50 except within a certain range. Employers may also choose to pay in more than the employee subject to some limits.

Last edited by magyir; 09.09.2011 at 14:22. Reason: clarity
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  #248  
Old 09.09.2011, 14:16
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Re: 3rd Pillar Pension Fund

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Thanks for the excellent info including the Q&A on 3rd pillar.

I have a related question, not sure if it is already covered somewhere...did I miss it along the way??

We have just received our tax forms for 2009...one year too late
I am wondering if we can put money in our 3rd pillar retroactively for 2009 to save tax??

Appreciate any info that the experts might have!
Thanks in advance
i asked a consultant at postfinance, and she told me this was not possible.
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  #249  
Old 09.09.2011, 14:49
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Re: 3rd Pillar Pension Fund

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i asked a consultant at postfinance, and she told me this was not possible.
Ha, wasn't my
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99.9% certain that you cannot
good enough for you ?
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  #250  
Old 09.09.2011, 14:59
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Re: 3rd Pillar Pension Fund

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Ha, wasn't my

good enough for you ?
One should always get additional opinions Otherwise it'd be like only reading one post per thread.....
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  #251  
Old 09.09.2011, 16:03
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Re: 3rd Pillar Pension Fund

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i asked a consultant at postfinance, and she told me this was not possible.
Thats correct, you have to do it before the end of the tax year.
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  #252  
Old 22.11.2011, 11:04
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Re: 3rd Pillar Pension Fund

here is good overview from credit suisse

https://www.credit-suisse.com/ch/pri...le_4014_en.pdf
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  #253  
Old 23.11.2011, 10:34
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Re: 3rd Pillar Pension Fund

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here is good overview from credit suisse

https://www.credit-suisse.com/ch/pri...le_4014_en.pdf
Footnote in that PDF: "This document may not be distributed in the United States or given to any US persons"

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  #254  
Old 24.11.2011, 12:24
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Re: 3rd Pillar Pension Fund

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It's not like the US where you have until tax filing day the following year to make some adjustments. Every financial institution publishes the latest dates you need to post money for it to be recognized in the year in question. Usually Dec. 27th/29th at the latest.

At least you know the effect on your taxes of socking away for the future.
I just got something from UBS suggesting that 19 December was the latest date you could move money into your 3a account for it to count as a contribution for 2011; which seems a bit early (especially if you only get paid the day before the Christmas holiday).

Anyone else heard anything different?
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  #255  
Old 24.11.2011, 12:25
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Re: 3rd Pillar Pension Fund

And if you're in doubt as to how much tax you might save, it should be the marginal tax rate on your income, which you can calculate on the UBS website here:

http://www.ubs.com/1/e/ubs_ch/privat...xes/rates.html
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  #256  
Old 29.11.2011, 22:20
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Re: 3rd Pillar Pension Fund

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I just got something from UBS suggesting that 19 December was the latest date you could move money into your 3a account for it to count as a contribution for 2011; which seems a bit early (especially if you only get paid the day before the Christmas holiday).

Anyone else heard anything different?
I've noticed this seems to be getting earlier and earlier, especially when you consider this year that half the holidays are on the weekend and not compensated meaning 2 additional processing days. I guess the Bank staff have a better deal.
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  #257  
Old 25.03.2012, 17:49
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Re: 3rd Pillar Pension Fund

From what I can see, and I've tried researching this on the web and talking to my bank and employer, 3rd Pillar funds seem to be either low-interest cash accounts or a pre-packaged, pre-selected mixture of cash and unspecified equity investments.

Is there anything similar to a UK self-invested personal pension (SIPP) where you put your cash in and then make your own investment decisions, and able to change investments as in a normal share/fund dealing account?

Also, even the pre-packaged 3rd Pillar products seem to have no more than about 50% in equities. Is there a regulation to this effect?

Thanks for any insight.
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  #258  
Old 25.03.2012, 17:54
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Re: 3rd Pillar Pension Fund

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From what I can see, and I've tried researching this on the web and talking to my bank and employer, 3rd Pillar funds seem to be either low-interest cash accounts or a pre-packaged, pre-selected mixture of cash and unspecified equity investments.

Is there anything similar to a UK self-invested personal pension (SIPP) where you put your cash in and then make your own investment decisions, and able to change investments as in a normal share/fund dealing account?

Also, even the pre-packaged 3rd Pillar products seem to have no more than about 50% in equities. Is there a regulation to this effect?

Thanks for any insight.
Unfortunately self sellect or 50%+ equities does not exist, it's a very risk averse country. I doubt you can have more than 20% in 'foreign' investments only. A good reason to avoid IMHO
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  #259  
Old 25.03.2012, 18:08
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Re: 3rd Pillar Pension Fund

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Unfortunately self sellect or 50%+ equities does not exist, it's a very risk averse country. I doubt you can have more than 20% in 'foreign' investments only. A good reason to avoid IMHO
Thanks. Credit Suisse have some options that include up to 45% equities -- https://www.credit-suisse.com/ch/pri...envorsorge.jsp -- but I've found nothing higher than that.
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  #260  
Old 25.03.2012, 18:22
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Re: 3rd Pillar Pension Fund

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Thanks. Credit Suisse have some options that include up to 45% equities -- https://www.credit-suisse.com/ch/pri...envorsorge.jsp -- but I've found nothing higher than that.
It's the normal boring underperforming funds that I try to avoid, sadly with pensions in CH it's all the same.
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