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  #41  
Old 21.02.2008, 17:22
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Re: 3rd Pillar Pension Fund

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Yes you can reclaim the tax even if you are taxed at source, eg those in their first five years of B permit status.
Only if you earn more than 120'000CHF p.a.
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  #42  
Old 21.02.2008, 23:52
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Re: 3rd Pillar Pension Fund

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The Bank Brienz Oberhasli is offering 3.0% on a 3A account. This is 0.75% more than current Migrosbank & Coop rates.

On a non fund-linked 3A, are total contributions paid-in safeguarded by law? For 3%, it would make sense to move all my contributions to date over, but are there some risks involved in dealing with a less well known bank?
Like any other bank account, up to CHF 30'000 is guaranteed per person.

Custodian for Bank BBO 3a accounts is the Rendita Foundation, which Credit Suisse founded.
http://www.renditastiftungen.ch/inde...d=15&Itemid=32
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  #43  
Old 21.02.2008, 23:57
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Re: 3rd Pillar Pension Fund

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I just started working for a company in Zug on January 3rd. Can I enroll in a pillar 3a for 2008 and still get the tax benefits or do I have to wait until the end of 2008 to enroll for 2009?

thanks
If you are paying AHV (Social Security) contributions in 2008, then you can also contribute to a 3a account and claim a deduction in determining the taxable income.
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  #44  
Old 22.02.2008, 08:59
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Re: 3rd Pillar Pension Fund

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Like any other bank account, up to CHF 30'000 is guaranteed per person.

Custodian for Bank BBO 3a accounts is the Rendita Foundation, which Credit Suisse founded.
www.renditastiftungen.ch/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=15&Itemi d=32
I was given to understand that the pension fund (3rd pillar 3 A) and the freizuezigkeitskonto (vested benefits blocked account) is fully guaranteed because its safeguarded by the government in whichever bank we maintain the account. Is my understanding wrong??
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  #45  
Old 22.02.2008, 09:39
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Re: 3rd Pillar Pension Fund

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Only if you earn more than 120'000CHF p.a.
No! Anyone who is employed can claim this back - assuming this would not make their earnings negative.
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  #46  
Old 23.02.2008, 18:56
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Re: 3rd Pillar Pension Fund

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I was given to understand that the pension fund (3rd pillar 3 A) and the freizuezigkeitskonto (vested benefits blocked account) is fully guaranteed because its safeguarded by the government in whichever bank we maintain the account. Is my understanding wrong??
No special guarantees for 3a and Fz accounts. Some legislators are recently demanding such guarantees. Nothing decided yet.

The standard guarantee of 30k is not from the Government. The consortia of all Swiss banks promise to help the investors of the bankrupt bank. Consequently, amounts up to 30k are safer in a small bank! Imagine a big bank becoming insolvent. The others would not be able to rescue
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  #47  
Old 25.02.2008, 09:35
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Re: 3rd Pillar Pension Fund

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No special guarantees for 3a and Fz accounts. Some legislators are recently demanding such guarantees. Nothing decided yet.

The standard guarantee of 30k is not from the Government. The consortia of all Swiss banks promise to help the investors of the bankrupt bank. Consequently, amounts up to 30k are safer in a small bank! Imagine a big bank becoming insolvent. The others would not be able to rescue
But, I understand that the 3a and Fz accounts are held by the trust but is just maintained by the bank. Its actually under the control of the trust (stiftung ??) and so in case the bank has problems, the money is still safe with the trust. Please feel free to correct me if my understanding on this is incorrect..
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  #48  
Old 25.02.2008, 10:01
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Re: 3rd Pillar Pension Fund

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But, I understand that the 3a and Fz accounts are held by the trust but is just maintained by the bank. Its actually under the control of the trust (stiftung ??) and so in case the bank has problems, the money is still safe with the trust. Please feel free to correct me if my understanding on this is incorrect..
That is true but if the money is a deposit then there is no guarantee to be paid out ie deposits might not be covered as they are used as float by banks - and hence they pay you interest on deposits - well they do if you call .75% interest and not insult...
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  #49  
Old 25.02.2008, 14:33
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Re: 3rd Pillar Pension Fund

Wish I knew exactly how the relationship between the Bank and the Trust functions.

Obviously the Bank must invest the money (lending it to others) so that it can pay interest to the saver. Therefore the Bank is deciding the risk. If it is a mortgage, then I expect the Bank hands over the debt obligation to the Trust. Now, if the Bank becomes insolvent, at least the Trust can foreclose the loan and attempt to liquidate the asset. That may not be a lossless process in a "sub-prime" situation.

Bottom line. Worst case you get 30k immediately plus, in due course, whatever the underlying is worth at closure. Likelihood of worst case is very small.
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  #50  
Old 25.02.2008, 19:55
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Re: 3rd Pillar Pension Fund

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Wish I knew exactly how the relationship between the Bank and the Trust functions.

Obviously the Bank must invest the money (lending it to others) so that it can pay interest to the saver. Therefore the Bank is deciding the risk. If it is a mortgage, then I expect the Bank hands over the debt obligation to the Trust. Now, if the Bank becomes insolvent, at least the Trust can foreclose the loan and attempt to liquidate the asset. That may not be a lossless process in a "sub-prime" situation.

Bottom line. Worst case you get 30k immediately plus, in due course, whatever the underlying is worth at closure. Likelihood of worst case is very small.
thanks for the post. When you say 30k , is it per account?? (for example , if a person has a private, savings, 3a and fz accounts, how does it work?)
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  #51  
Old 25.02.2008, 22:47
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Re: 3rd Pillar Pension Fund

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Hello!

I guess you may know already but... once you use your second pillar to buy a house, you can "fill it up" again in the years later. details are in your pension plan rules. This has the benefit to have a full pension plan. It is also tax deductible and you can put in whatever amount (no limits like with the third pillar.

Cristina
No longer possible to claim full tax deduction while refilling a pension plan depleted to buy housing! The taxman closed that loophole in 2007. Note that:
* Amounts withdrawn to finance housing is taxed, albeit at a lower rate, on withdrawal from the pension plan.
* Cannot put in "whatever amount" into the pension plan. Only the deficit to be fully vested.
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  #52  
Old 26.02.2008, 18:18
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Re: 3rd Pillar Pension Fund

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thanks for the post. When you say 30k , is it per account?? (for example , if a person has a private, savings, 3a and fz accounts, how does it work?)
Unfortunately, 30k per person per Bank.
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  #53  
Old 27.02.2008, 09:35
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Re: 3rd Pillar Pension Fund

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No! Anyone who is employed can claim this back - assuming this would not make their earnings negative.
I was with my fiduciary last week who told me that B permit people can only fill in a full tax return if they earn over 120'000.- p.a. ...
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  #54  
Old 27.02.2008, 13:26
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Re: 3rd Pillar Pension Fund

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I was with my fiduciary last week who told me that B permit people can only fill in a full tax return if they earn over 120'000.- p.a. ...
Hi Jenny, I concede that I do not know the tax laws of Vaud. However, under federal tax law there are multiple other reasons why a person with a B permit can fill a full tax return in particular if they own a property or are subject to a divorce settlement.

And not only that, but there is room in the federal law to allow a canton to permit any foreign person to be freed of the tax at source regulations. For example in Zürich this is under article 58. This usually requires the payment of some form of deposit or the provision of some other security, for example from the employer, that the taxes will be paid.

And furthermore irrespective of income, under federal law any person who has once filled in a tax return must continue filling them in until such times as they are freed of the need to pay tax at the source.

But as I said, I do not know Vaud tax law and therefore can only reference the federal provisions.

And finally. The comment I made to which you are referencing was related to the ability of any source tax payer in any canton to recover tax paid at source on particular items by completing a form and returning this by 31st March. This is particularly relevant for payments made to the 3rd pillar.
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  #55  
Old 27.02.2008, 15:28
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Re: 3rd Pillar Pension Fund

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Hi Jenny, I concede that I do not know the tax laws of Vaud. However, under federal tax law there are multiple other reasons why a person with a B permit can fill a full tax return in particular if they own a property or are subject to a divorce settlement.
Yes, this is correct

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And not only that, but there is room in the federal law to allow a canton to permit any foreign person to be freed of the tax at source regulations. For example in Zürich this is under article 58. This usually requires the payment of some form of deposit or the provision of some other security, for example from the employer, that the taxes will be paid.
This I will look into for the canton of Vaud. I looked into it last year too and was told it wasn't possible (unless you own a property, earn more than 120k etc. etc.)

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And furthermore irrespective of income, under federal law any person who has once filled in a tax return must continue filling them in until such times as they are freed of the need to pay tax at the source.
Yup.

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The comment I made to which you are referencing was related to the ability of any source tax payer in any canton to recover tax paid at source on particular items by completing a form and returning this by 31st March. This is particularly relevant for payments made to the 3rd pillar.
Yes, this I know. It's really easy to fill out (at least the one in Vaud is). Once you get your wage certificates from your employer(s) through, it takes like 10 minutes to fill in.
It's not like the full declaration forms.

Thanks for your comments Richard
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  #56  
Old 28.02.2008, 01:29
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Re: 3rd Pillar Pension Fund

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Only if you earn more than 120'000CHF p.a.
I live in canton VD and was earning 55k per year. I was advised to open the 3 pillar account in order to make some tax savings. I did opened the account at the end of december (something like Dec.23) and put the maximum sum there. After I needed to ask my tax office to provide me with the tax declaration form in order to deduct 3pillar money. Once you open this account, you have rights to claim this form. However, there are 2 forms. One is a simple one and you can just deduct your 3 pillar. Ask for detailed tax declaration (like for Swiss people or C permit holders). There you can deduct your travel expenses to work, professional expenses, lunches, dentist and other doctors - medical expenses if they are exceed 3 or 5% of your income (do not rememebr exactly) and so on. I could get back about 3000 CHF from my 55k yearly income.
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  #57  
Old 29.03.2008, 20:08
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Re: 3rd Pillar Pension Fund

Right, a question about how to put pillar 2/3 account onto your tax form.

If you have a pillar 3a account or pillar 2 (pension related freizugigkeitskonto), do we add the bank account that contains the pillar 3 total (or the freizugigskeitkonto account) to the list of accounts?

In other words, does the amount sitting in your Fisca (pillar 3) or freizugigskeit account count as vermogen (wealth)?? I went through my whole tax explanation booklet, but this must be so obvious that no one mentions it. I presume it is not vermogen (wealth), because you would lose some benefit of paying into these plans if it is, but you have to list all bank accounts and the amount they contain, which is then added to your total wealth. Edit: so I do not list the bank account or I do but leave the total amount as 0?

Last edited by muze7; 29.03.2008 at 20:46.
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  #58  
Old 29.03.2008, 20:40
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Re: 3rd Pillar Pension Fund

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Right, a question about how to put pillar 2/3 account onto your tax form.

If you have a pillar 3a account or pillar 2 (pension related freizugigkeitskonto), do we add the bank account that contains the pillar 3 total (or the freizugigskeitkonto account) to the list of accounts?
I would say no, see http://www.ktipp.ch/beratung/1031426/ Ktipp's common tax questions:

Säule 3a

- Muss ich meine Konti der Säule 3a in der Steuererklärung beim Vermögen angeben?

Nein. Die Säule 3a dient der Vorsorge und muss vorläufig nicht deklariert werden. Erst bei der Auszahlung des Guthabens müssen Sie dieses Geld versteuern – und zwar zu einem bevorzugten Satz. Aber: Vergessen Sie nicht, die Einzahlungen in die Säule 3a von den Steuern abzuziehen (Angestellte maximal 6365 Franken, Selbständige 20 Prozent des Erwerbseinkommens – maximal 31 824 Franken)
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  #59  
Old 30.03.2008, 17:06
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Re: 3rd Pillar Pension Fund

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And not only that, but there is room in the federal law to allow a canton to permit any foreign person to be freed of the tax at source regulations. For example in Zürich this is under article 58. This usually requires the payment of some form of deposit or the provision of some other security, for example from the employer, that the taxes will be paid.
Certainly in Schwyz the "employer guaranteed" right to move away from payment of quellensteurer on a PAYE basis was taken away a couple of years ago. Note also that this was never the same as being completely freed from the tax at source regulations, just the payment basis. So for example the prorata temporis taxation on moving canton during the year remains, whereas someone subject to direct taxation would pay in the canton of residence at 31.12.

D
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Old 31.03.2008, 18:11
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Re: 3rd Pillar Pension Fund

Hello,

Does anyone know how the tax refund calculated for 3A contributions, for the people taxed at source. I mean is it like deducting the 3A amount from gross income and looking at the tax % from the income bracket after deduction (gross - 6365)

Thanks a lot !!
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