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  #21  
Old 13.09.2012, 02:06
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Re: It isn't just the Germans that are hiring snitches!

If high tax countries only lowered their taxes, people wouldn't have a reason to take it elsewhere and hide it. It may even be possible to cut taxes without losing revenue: See the Khaldun Laffer Curve. Beyond that a lot of tax spending in many countries is genuinely nonsense with a lot of it flowing into waste and corruption. Politicians are too defensive of their little empires to want to step back and consider alternatives.

But rather than tackle root causes, governments prefer to pay rogues to provide them with information on other rogues.
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  #22  
Old 13.09.2012, 08:16
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Re: It isn't just the Germans that are hiring snitches!

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Just think about this in terms of a Mafia gunmen instead of a UBS employee. You spend years killing off rival gangland members, eliminating targets until one day you get caught. To save your own butt you spill the beans on the whole Mafia network, the bosses, the supply chain etc. and then after you serve a paltry reduced sentence for your own trifling crimes you emerge to a massive cash pay off to reward you for talking about those who the state consider to be "even worse" than you.


Laughable. Just genuinely perverse.
That's not laughable, but actually reality - that's exactly how the cops get principal witnesses in organized crime cases. You don't punish the snitch for his crimes if he in turn delivers the facts to lock up some dozens of other criminals. And yes, this includes murder. Even serial murder. Not just in theory and somewhere far away... example:



But you usually do not pay them 100 Mil on top of that.
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  #23  
Old 13.09.2012, 09:38
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Re: It isn't just the Germans that are hiring snitches!

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If high tax countries only lowered their taxes, people wouldn't have a reason to take it elsewhere and hide it. It may even be possible to cut taxes without losing revenue: See the Khaldun Laffer Curve. Beyond that a lot of tax spending in many countries is genuinely nonsense with a lot of it flowing into waste and corruption. Politicians are too defensive of their little empires to want to step back and consider alternatives.

But rather than tackle root causes, governments prefer to pay rogues to provide them with information on other rogues.
The US wouldn't exactly be considered a high tax country in world taxation rates. Its not as high as the Scandinavians, Germans, French, etc.

There would always be somewhere with lower rates and a few percentage points of a boat load of money in tax savings is a boat load of money. In todays world of technology its easier than ever to move and manage money from afar.

Theres a point where increased taxation makes no sense and will force people to avoid tax but American tax rates are not that penal. Its just a bunch of greedy buggers not wanting to pay tax.
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Old 13.09.2012, 09:43
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Re: It isn't just the Germans that are hiring snitches!

At least the americans pay better bribe money rhen the germans! The poor guy who handed the cdrom over to the germans must be annoyed now he could have retired if he gave it to the USA instead!
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  #25  
Old 13.09.2012, 11:21
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Re: It isn't just the Germans that are hiring snitches!

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Disgraceful.

To whistle blow out of a sense of moral obligation, admirable.

But for extreme financial gain, despicable. This guy was a willing part of the game and also a criminal.
True, and the IRS presumably decided to exploit this:
Fraudster driven by financial gain + large financial carrot = result

Would be ironic if he stashed the $104m out of reach of the IRS.
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  #26  
Old 13.09.2012, 11:46
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Re: It isn't just the Germans that are hiring snitches!

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At least the americans pay better bribe money rhen the germans! The poor guy who handed the cdrom over to the germans must be annoyed now he could have retired if he gave it to the USA instead!
Yeah. I'd already not be happy if I was a taxpayer in Germany... but I'd be furious if I was American and a full 100 Mil of my countries taxes were used for a guy who would have done the same for a "You get out of jail free" card. A really bad investment.
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  #27  
Old 13.09.2012, 12:22
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Re: It isn't just the Germans that are hiring snitches!

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At least the americans pay better bribe money rhen the germans! The poor guy who handed the cdrom over to the germans must be annoyed now he could have retired if he gave it to the USA instead!
If the Swiss follow through with their threat of putting an international arrest warrant on him, that guy can look forward to a pretty miserable rest of his life. You have to give it to the Americans that they know how to take care of their people.

It is scary though to think where this could be heading as it escalates further. The Chinese have more financial oomph that the Americans these days and they won't be buying tax data but intellectual property.
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  #28  
Old 13.09.2012, 12:49
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Re: It isn't just the Germans that are hiring snitches!

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The Chinese have more financial oomph that the Americans these days and they won't be buying tax data but intellectual property.
Fun fact: Half of the rich Chinese want to leave China... several thousand millionaires leave to the US every year (there is some program that gets you a green card if you invest some 500K usd and create at leas x jobs or something in that line...)

http://business.blogs.cnn.com/2011/1...want-to-leave/
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  #29  
Old 13.09.2012, 13:27
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Re: It isn't just the Germans that are hiring snitches!

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Fun fact: Half of the rich Chinese want to leave China... several thousand millionaires leave to the US every year (there is some program that gets you a green card if you invest some 500K usd and create at leas x jobs or something in that line...)

http://business.blogs.cnn.com/2011/1...want-to-leave/
Odd, surprising that. I would have thought that as a millionaire you can have a very good life in China. Strange world.
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  #30  
Old 13.09.2012, 13:45
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Re: It isn't just the Germans that are hiring snitches!

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Odd, surprising that. I would have thought that as a millionaire you can have a very good life in China. Strange world.
You can have an excellent life. For me is this more of an "early 90s Russia" thing - an aweful lot of those millionaires might be scared that some day somebody might find out how they actually made their money...
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  #31  
Old 13.09.2012, 14:07
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Re: It isn't just the Germans that are hiring snitches!

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You can have an excellent life. For me is this more of an "early 90s Russia" thing - an aweful lot of those millionaires might be scared that some day somebody might find out how they actually made their money...
I was on a plane NY to Ohio and next to a guy who had just come back from China selling green cards for investment in a higher risk University led start up program.

Basically the rich chinese wanted a safe haven with some of their assets held safely and the ability to jump on a plane and flee China to the US at the drop of a hat if required.

I hope they are all filing those US tax returns.

Also, this pay for snitches is not isolated to the IRS. In the fastener industry which I worked the industry leader in the US was given a massive fine when a former manager whistle blew about Govt contracts being won with bribes and favors which were illegal. The whistle blower had been fired but got a very nice "severance package" from the govt based on the fines they were able to levy.
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  #32  
Old 13.09.2012, 14:34
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Re: It isn't just the Germans that are hiring snitches!

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Odd, surprising that. I would have thought that as a millionaire you can have a very good life in China. Strange world.
Not really. The American Dream is still the goal for many around the world. Unfortunately, unless you're a millionaire people can soon find that the American Reality is very different from the Dream.
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  #33  
Old 13.09.2012, 16:02
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Re: It isn't just the Germans that are hiring snitches!

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Not really. The American Dream is still the goal for many around the world. Unfortunately, unless you're a millionaire people can soon find that the American Reality is very different from the Dream.
It is less the American dream and more the possibility to pay for a residence permit with cash. Not possible in Europe or Switzerland.
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  #34  
Old 13.09.2012, 16:09
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Re: It isn't just the Germans that are hiring snitches!

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Not really. The American Dream is still the goal for many around the world. Unfortunately, unless you're a millionaire people can soon find that the American Reality is very different from the Dream.
Isn't the American dream about going to the US and getting rich there.

Going to the US as a millionaire to spend it is more the Florida dream, if anything.
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Old 13.09.2012, 16:40
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Re: It isn't just the Germans that are hiring snitches!

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Yeah. I'd already not be happy if I was a taxpayer in Germany... but I'd be furious if I was American and a full 100 Mil of my countries taxes were used for a guy who would have done the same for a "You get out of jail free" card. A really bad investment.
But without that guy this money would never been there in the first place. Also, he had only 41 months jail time, so not really a life sentence. Due to this guys whistle, UBS had to pay 758M to the US gov. also, they had to give the details of its clients.

I am not a US citizen, but if I were one, I would have been pretty happy with that. In the end, Bankers screwing Bankers and I am getting the (indirect) benefit. I'd take that deal any day.
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Old 13.09.2012, 17:37
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Re: It isn't just the Germans that are hiring snitches!

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But without that guy this money would never been there in the first place. Also, he had only 41 months jail time, so not really a life sentence. Due to this guys whistle, UBS had to pay 758M to the US gov. also, they had to give the details of its clients.

I am not a US citizen, but if I were one, I would have been pretty happy with that. In the end, Bankers screwing Bankers and I am getting the (indirect) benefit. I'd take that deal any day.
True of course. But the road to hell is always paved with good intentions. As it seems to be becoming increasingly acceptably for foreign governments to sponsor industrial espionnage, that is a new normality that is emerging. For now they may be going after tax evaders, but next they could be going after any data. There was an outcry in Germany recently when a law was passed permitting the government to sell people's adresses to spam mailing companies. Maybe as a next move they could attempt to recover some of the money they spent on the stolen CD-ROMs by selling spammers data not only on who you are and where you live but how much money you have and what you spend it on. Or why not just sell account numbers, pin codes and passwords?
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Old 13.09.2012, 17:45
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Re: It isn't just the Germans that are hiring snitches!

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Due to this guys whistle, UBS had to pay 758M to the US gov. also, they had to give the details of its clients. I am not a US citizen, but if I were one, I would have been pretty happy with that. In the end, Bankers screwing Bankers and I am getting the (indirect) benefit.
In this post-constitutional age, that the ability of the US government to spend more money somehow implies a 'benefit' to US citizens is a rather wild assumption, I must say.

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  #38  
Old 13.09.2012, 18:24
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Re: It isn't just the Germans that are hiring snitches!

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True of course. But the road to hell is always paved with good intentions. As it seems to be becoming increasingly acceptably for foreign governments to sponsor industrial espionnage, that is a new normality that is emerging. For now they may be going after tax evaders, but next they could be going after any data. There was an outcry in Germany recently when a law was passed permitting the government to sell people's adresses to spam mailing companies. Maybe as a next move they could attempt to recover some of the money they spent on the stolen CD-ROMs by selling spammers data not only on who you are and where you live but how much money you have and what you spend it on. Or why not just sell account numbers, pin codes and passwords?
I think we are mixing the issues in here. I think it is everbody' responsibility to report criminal activities. I don't really understand why it matters if it is coming from an honest citizen or from a criminal. It is just reporting.

Having said that, going after data through illegal ways (like Germany did) is another thing and it should be condemned. We can not fight criminality with committing crimes ourselves to stop it.

Also, I believe is another thread's discussion how to spend the tax money.Let's first find the ways to get it or are you simply suggesting that if we do not like how the government spends tax money, we should not pay taxes? If so, you always have the option to give it to charity and deduct it from your tax. (shall I give my account)
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