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Old 29.09.2012, 15:38
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Former US Green Card holders also screwed by FATCA!

Even if you are no longer a Green Card holder, they are still after you:

(From: http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/p4588.pdf)

"What if my green card has been taken by or g iven to
someone in the U.S. government?

If you’ve surrendered your green card, this doesn’t
necessarily mean that your status as a lawful permanent
resident has changed. Your status will not change unless
and unt il you get an offic ial not i ce from the U.S. Citizenship
and Immigration Service (USCIS ) that there has been a
final administrative or judicial determination that your
green card has been revoked or abandoned. You can
contact the USCIS to check the status of your card.

What if I have been absent from the U.S. for a long period
of time?

Your tax responsibilities as a green card holder do not
change if you are absent from the U.S. for any period
of time. Your income tax filing requirement and possible
obligation to pay U.S. taxes continue until you either
surrender your green card or there has been a final administrative
or judicial determination that your green card has
been revoked or abandoned. Therefore, even if the U.S.
Citizenship and Immigration Service (USCIS) no longer
recognizes the validity of your green card because you
have been absent from the United States for a certain
period of time or the green card is more than ten years
old, you must continue to file tax returns until there has
been a final determination that is not subject to appeal
that your green card has been revoked or abandoned."

Tom
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Old 29.09.2012, 17:42
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Re: Former US Green Card holders also screwed by FATCA!

I had won a Green Card once. Not claiming it was the best decision ever Every time I read about the problems of the US persons I feel lucky that I have just avoided being one of them.
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Old 29.09.2012, 18:50
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Re: Former US Green Card holders also screwed by FATCA!

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Even if you are no longer a Green Card holder, they are still after you:
Tom
Thanks for the info, Tom! Good to know.

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I had won a Green Card once. Not claiming it was the best decision ever Every time I read about the problems of the US persons I feel lucky that I have just avoided being one of them.
Well, points of view. If you happen to want to live in the US, I think that piece of paper might help!
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Old 29.09.2012, 20:46
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Re: Former US Green Card holders also screwed by FATCA!

Screw the US with their bullying! The best thing for anyone to do is not to get tangled up with them, if possible. US used to be the country to go to for opportunity but there are other places to live that are much better. If you don't have to bother with the US forget about Green Cards, Passport...etc.
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Old 29.09.2012, 21:05
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Re: Former US Green Card holders also screwed by FATCA!

Once they've got you they DON'T want to let go, no matter what. Wonder how many (ex)-green card holders will get caught out now too.
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Old 29.09.2012, 21:33
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Re: Former US Green Card holders also screwed by FATCA!

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.....even if the U.S.
Citizenship and Immigration Service (USCIS) no longer
recognizes the validity of your green card because you
have been absent from the United States for a certain
period of time or the green card is more than ten years
old, you must continue to file tax returns until there has
been a final determination....
I don't get this part. So the green card could be recognized as non-valid, but the tax returns still must be filed? On what ground? Can the person remain a "US person" only in terms of obligations but not rights?
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Old 29.09.2012, 21:37
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Re: Former US Green Card holders also screwed by FATCA!

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Well, points of view. If you happen to want to live in the US, I think that piece of paper might help!
Sure In my case I had tried living there for a few years and probably will never give it a second try
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Old 29.09.2012, 22:34
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Re: Former US Green Card holders also screwed by FATCA!

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I don't get this part. So the green card could be recognized as non-valid, but the tax returns still must be filed? On what ground? Can the person remain a "US person" only in terms of obligations but not rights?
Probably in the same way that if you renounce/relinquish and there's still tax owing, they can come after you for it. This from the renunciation section of the US Embassy in Bern page:

E. TAX & MILITARY OBLIGATIONS /NO ESCAPE FROM PROSECUTION

Also, persons who wish to renounce U.S. citizenship should also be aware that the fact that a person has renounced U.S. citizenship may have no effect whatsoever on his or her U.S. tax or military service obligations (contact the Internal Revenue Service or U.S. Selective Service for more information). In addition, the act of renouncing U.S. citizenship will not allow persons to avoid possible prosecution for crimes which they may have committed in the United States, or escape the repayment of financial obligations previously incurred in the United States or incurred as United States citizens abroad.

Obviously, the whole idea that someone would want to give up their citizenship or green card is so shocking that they've done everything they can to make you understand you still might have obligations, although no rights at all.

It makes you wonder, if there was another World War and US was so strapped for combatants whether they'd try calling up those ex-citizens to fill the gaps because they still have military obligations, even though they've renounced. As if they'd turn up.

Once an American, always an American no matter what seems to be their blinkered idea.
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Old 29.09.2012, 22:38
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Re: Former US Green Card holders also screwed by FATCA!

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E. TAX & MILITARY OBLIGATIONS /NO ESCAPE FROM PROSECUTION
"Land of the free, really!"
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Old 29.09.2012, 23:06
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Re: Former US Green Card holders also screwed by FATCA!

There is also a real difference between giving up the green card within 6 or 7 years and after that. Not exactly sure which it is.

Surrendering before this point you avoid future "enquiries" although I'm sure you have to be up to date tax wise. After that you may have to pay an exit tax and continue to file listings of assets, Im guessing they may want to come for any long term capital gains they figure may have accrued while a green card holder.

I know someone rather well off (understated) who has renounced his green card years ago but still has to list for the IRS all assets each year.
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Old 29.09.2012, 23:39
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Re: Former US Green Card holders also screwed by FATCA!

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There is also a real difference between giving up the green card within 6 or 7 years and after that. Not exactly sure which it is.
I think you may be referring to this: the US Govt. enacted the 'HEART Act' (Heroes Earning Assistance & Tax Relief) on 17 June 1988 which affected/affects all expats who gave up (or will be giving up) their Green Cards which they had (or have) held for 8 years or gave up US citizenship after that date.

The HEART Act "may cause the expatriating individual to be subject to an exit tax and treated as if all assets were sold on the day before the expatriation date. Furthermore US persons receiving gifts from persons expatriating under the HEART Act may be subject to tax".

Here is some info about it:

http://www.deloitte.com/assets/Dcom-...Act_080808.pdf

http://www.expatriatetaxservices.com...how.aspx?id=40



Last edited by Fish&Chips; 29.09.2012 at 23:51.
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Old 30.09.2012, 00:42
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Re: Former US Green Card holders also screwed by FATCA!

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Probably in the same way that if you renounce/relinquish and there's still tax owing, they can come after you for it.....
If you renounce citizenship but own taxes then they will come after you of course. But about the green card, from the first post it seems that even when all taxes are paid when the green card is found non-valid by US Immigration service, you have to keep paying taxes until some kind of final decision arrives. This is very strange -- there seems to be an undefined period of time when the card is gone but the taxes are still have to be paid from the current income...
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Old 30.09.2012, 00:57
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Re: Former US Green Card holders also screwed by FATCA!

Your immigration status and tax status are linked very loosely in general. One can also file as a non-US resident without physically surrendering its Green Card.
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Old 30.09.2012, 04:15
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This is not anything new related to fatca.

If you are a long term perm resident (I think it is over 8 years out of last 15), you have a continual filing obligation....

It is also more of a procedural matter....it is not enough to just abandon your green card at the border with immigration...you need to notify the tax dept as well....and meet all exit tax requirement....
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Old 30.09.2012, 04:23
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Re: Former US Green Card holders also screwed by FATCA!

If you are in possession of a green card, leave the country for a period of 365 consecutive days without filing for a re-entry visa and haven't re-entered the country, your status is technically 'abandoned'. Trust me on this one.... So, if you abandoned and haven't been back to stay, I don't think you have to lose any sleep over the IRS coming to get you. However, if you abandoned, didn't pay taxes after abandoning and expect to reclaim your GC status...well, that could be a bit of a hairball.
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Old 30.09.2012, 12:21
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Re: Former US Green Card holders also screwed by FATCA!

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If you are in possession of a green card, leave the country for a period of 365 consecutive days without filing for a re-entry visa and haven't re-entered the country, your status is technically 'abandoned'. Trust me on this one.... So, if you abandoned and haven't been back to stay, I don't think you have to lose any sleep over the IRS coming to get you.
Perhaps not, but I started this thread because a Swiss friend of mine who hasn't been to the US in 15 years and was even told by INS back in 2000 that was no longer a green card hold was, last week, ordered by UBS to sell all his stock and stripped of his directorship in a family company because he is, according to this, a US person for tax purposes!

So, as a result, he can lo longer have an investment account!

So, it IS in fact related to FATCA in that former green card holders are also being denied accounts as FATCA applies to them, too!

Tom

Last edited by st2lemans; 30.09.2012 at 12:32.
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Old 30.09.2012, 13:17
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Re: Former US Green Card holders also screwed by FATCA!

Then I suggest he contact the USCIS asap to get that official notification to avoid even more problems.

Yes, of course FATCA applies to them too and will cause just as much disruption and misery because, like your friend, a lot of ex-holders will not realise they are still considered US for tax purposes until their banks tell them so. And even people who are based in the US and using their green cards are having problems. There have been reports that Swiss citizens working there have been told by their Swiss banks that they can't hold accounts either.
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Old 30.09.2012, 16:07
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Re: Former US Green Card holders also screwed by FATCA!

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Perhaps not, but I started this thread because a Swiss friend of mine who hasn't been to the US in 15 years and was even told by INS back in 2000 that was no longer a green card hold was, last week, ordered by UBS to sell all his stock and stripped of his directorship in a family company because he is, according to this, a US person for tax purposes!

So, as a result, he can lo longer have an investment account!

So, it IS in fact related to FATCA in that former green card holders are also being denied accounts as FATCA applies to them, too!
Well, yes, current GC holders are bound by FATCA but UBS sounds like they're being a bit overly cautious as is the family business since nobody really knows where it will end and it's always good to put in a big hurdle instead of making it easy for them. Is the Swiss friend married to a Yankee? There has to be something more to the story making UBS a bit twitchy.
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Old 30.09.2012, 16:15
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Re: Former US Green Card holders also screwed by FATCA!

He was told he needs to provide proof that he is no longer a green card holder, and all will be well, but getting that is a problem, as he is then concerned that the IRS will want 15 years of tax returns and/or taxes!

Tom
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Old 30.09.2012, 16:19
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Re: Former US Green Card holders also screwed by FATCA!

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He was told he needs to provide proof that he is no longer a green card holder, and all will be well, but getting that is a problem, as he is then concerned that the IRS will want 15 years of tax returns.
If he has no ties by marriage, hasn't entered the US border in 15 years and hasn't filed taxes since leaving, I really don't see how they could ask for any taxes from him. This new witchhunt is a bit confusing, but I haven't heard any stories (yet) of something so absurd as demanding back taxes from an EU national 15 years outside the country.
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