Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Help & tips > Finance/banking/taxation  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 18.11.2012, 14:40
brusch's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Canton de Vaud
Posts: 440
Groaned at 19 Times in 17 Posts
Thanked 392 Times in 193 Posts
brusch is considered knowledgeablebrusch is considered knowledgeablebrusch is considered knowledgeable
US citizens in CH, prepare for big tax burden!

Serious discussion on revoking the FEIE, renounce as soon as you can, the IRS will be out to confiscate your economic life with rage!

http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/2012/11/...rial-taxation/
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank brusch for this useful post:
The following 2 users groan at brusch for this post:
  #2  
Old 18.11.2012, 18:38
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: suburbs of LA, USA
Posts: 934
Groaned at 11 Times in 10 Posts
Thanked 873 Times in 439 Posts
BrianJW has a reputation beyond reputeBrianJW has a reputation beyond reputeBrianJW has a reputation beyond reputeBrianJW has a reputation beyond repute
Re: US citizens in CH, prepare for big tax burden!

Quote:
View Post
Serious discussion on revoking the FEIE, renounce as soon as you can, the IRS will be out to confiscate your economic life with rage!

http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/2012/11/...rial-taxation/
Not sure how serious it is. Don`t see how they can reduce income tax rates and capital gains tax and cut the deficit.

I think the 3rd or 4th line on expenditure reduction is to freeze politicians pay. Therefore its certain to fail.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank BrianJW for this useful post:
  #3  
Old 19.11.2012, 12:07
Newbie 1st class
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Geneva
Posts: 29
Groaned at 3 Times in 3 Posts
Thanked 13 Times in 10 Posts
nikovteim is considered a nuisancenikovteim is considered a nuisancenikovteim is considered a nuisance
Re: US citizens in CH, prepare for big tax burden!

Quote:
View Post
Serious discussion on revoking the FEIE, renounce as soon as you can, the IRS will be out to confiscate your economic life with rage!

http://isaacbrocksociety.ca/2012/11/...rial-taxation/
I'd suggest "silly discussion" would be more accurate, or simply "much ado about nothing."

There are hundreds of bills introduced in the Congress that never pass, that pass but have key provisions amended by the Senate, etc etc.

Yet, even if the FEIE were amended, what difference would it make to anyone here? Earned income is subject to Swiss taxes. Without the FEIE you still have a dollar-for-dollar tax credit for foreign income taxes paid.

The FEIE really helps people in tax havens (Bermuda, for example), and maybe (just maybe) those folks should not have a "pay no tax" privilege.
Reply With Quote
This user groans at nikovteim for this post:
  #4  
Old 19.11.2012, 14:24
UncleTell's Avatar
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Deutschschweiz
Posts: 69
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 63 Times in 24 Posts
UncleTell has no particular reputation at present
Re: US citizens in CH, prepare for big tax burden!

Quote:
View Post
Yet, even if the FEIE were amended, what difference would it make to anyone here?
Are you joking?

I’m married, have 2 kids and my wife does not work. My Swiss taxes, Kanton and Bund combined are 8K CHF and I don't live in Zug! Due to the fact that the IRS FORCES me to add my AHV contribution, my Pensionskasse contribution AND the contibution that my employer puts into my Pensionskasse and the 6K CHF I pay into my 3A Konto which is not deductable, I end up with a fairly high gross income as compared to that which the Swiss tax me on. The US does not recognise the VAT we pay here in Switzerland. If they repeal the FEIE my US tax would be roughly 20K USD which means after the tax credit I would have to surrender 12K USD in taxes to the IRS.
That will be the day I finally decide to renounce!
I remember a phrase from history class back when I was in the US in high school, I think it went something like this “No taxation without representation!”
If the IRS just US took the same gross income as the Swiss do and imposed the US tax rate on it, then I just might think about paying the difference.
There is no way in hell that I will pay more to the IRS than I pay here in Switzerland where I live, served in the military and own a small home.

Last edited by UncleTell; 19.11.2012 at 14:34.
Reply With Quote
The following 6 users would like to thank UncleTell for this useful post:
  #5  
Old 19.11.2012, 14:35
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: la cote
Posts: 3,093
Groaned at 18 Times in 11 Posts
Thanked 2,543 Times in 1,399 Posts
runningdeer has a reputation beyond reputerunningdeer has a reputation beyond reputerunningdeer has a reputation beyond reputerunningdeer has a reputation beyond reputerunningdeer has a reputation beyond repute
Re: US citizens in CH, prepare for big tax burden!

Quote:
View Post
Yet, even if the FEIE were amended, what difference would it make to anyone here?
Quote:
View Post
Are you joking?

I’m married, have 2 kids and my wife does not work. My Swiss taxes, Kanton and Bund combined are 8K CHF and I don't live in Zug! Due to the fact that the IRS FORCES me to add my AHV contribution, my Pensionskasse contribution AND the contibution that my employer puts into my Pensionskasse and the 6K CHF I pay into my 3A Konto which is not deductable, I end up with a fairly high gross income as compared to that which the Swiss tax me on. The US does not recognise the VAT we pay here in Switzerland. If they repeal the FEIE my US tax would be roughly 20K USD which means after the tax credit I would have to surrender 12K USD in taxes to the IRS.
Agreed with UncleTell. With a relatively low income tax country like CH, with realtively high salaries and different forms of taxation, adding the high CHF compared to USD, it will translate only into pain for many.
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users would like to thank runningdeer for this useful post:
  #6  
Old 19.11.2012, 14:42
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Schindellegi
Posts: 142
Groaned at 9 Times in 5 Posts
Thanked 62 Times in 28 Posts
clone000 is considered unworthyclone000 is considered unworthyclone000 is considered unworthy
Re: US citizens in CH, prepare for big tax burden!

Well lets say this does not take effect this year (also at the pace things are moving it might start in 2015 if approved).

How can a foreign US citizen reduce his or her taxes?

- Rental / housing expenses
- Food expenses
- Clothing / Car expenses


What if you buy property in the US, what happens to the Swiss funds that I use to buy an income property in the US - is it taxed?
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 19.11.2012, 14:47
JBZ86's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Zurich and various mountains
Posts: 3,713
Groaned at 521 Times in 338 Posts
Thanked 4,258 Times in 1,944 Posts
JBZ86 has a reputation beyond reputeJBZ86 has a reputation beyond reputeJBZ86 has a reputation beyond reputeJBZ86 has a reputation beyond reputeJBZ86 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: US citizens in CH, prepare for big tax burden!

Not going to happen
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank JBZ86 for this useful post:
  #8  
Old 19.11.2012, 14:56
UncleTell's Avatar
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Deutschschweiz
Posts: 69
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 63 Times in 24 Posts
UncleTell has no particular reputation at present
Re: US citizens in CH, prepare for big tax burden!

Quote:
View Post
Not going to happen
I hope you are right. They've done it before in the 70's only to bring it back after complicating the lives of many expats. I hope that congress has learned from the past, but I'm not as optimistic as you are.
Reply With Quote
The following 3 users would like to thank UncleTell for this useful post:
  #9  
Old 19.11.2012, 14:58
st2lemans's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Lugano
Posts: 27,519
Groaned at 1,732 Times in 1,322 Posts
Thanked 31,936 Times in 15,279 Posts
st2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond repute
Re: US citizens in CH, prepare for big tax burden!

Quote:
View Post
Yet, even if the FEIE were amended, what difference would it make to anyone here?
That's what I always used, as well as most US persons I know.

Tom
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 19.11.2012, 15:02
st2lemans's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Lugano
Posts: 27,519
Groaned at 1,732 Times in 1,322 Posts
Thanked 31,936 Times in 15,279 Posts
st2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond reputest2lemans has a reputation beyond repute
Re: US citizens in CH, prepare for big tax burden!

Quote:
View Post
How can a foreign US citizen reduce his or her taxes?

- Rental / housing expenses
- Food expenses
- Clothing / Car expenses
Yes, No, No.

Tom
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 19.11.2012, 15:10
UncleTell's Avatar
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Deutschschweiz
Posts: 69
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 63 Times in 24 Posts
UncleTell has no particular reputation at present
Re: US citizens in CH, prepare for big tax burden!

For all those interested, go here

US tax calculator

and enter your Swiss taxable income plus:
your Swiss AHV contribution
your 2nd Pillar contributions AND your employer's
any 3rd Pillar contributions AND their interests!

OH! don't forget to convert CHF to USD !
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 19.11.2012, 15:26
poptart's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Boston
Posts: 1,787
Groaned at 33 Times in 28 Posts
Thanked 3,013 Times in 1,242 Posts
poptart has a reputation beyond reputepoptart has a reputation beyond reputepoptart has a reputation beyond reputepoptart has a reputation beyond reputepoptart has a reputation beyond reputepoptart has a reputation beyond repute
Re: US citizens in CH, prepare for big tax burden!

Did any of you actually read the bill? The text of HR6474? Hooman, it's like a dessert topping and a floor wax wrapped in bacon and deep fried. There's no way this sucker will fly as on top of the list of crap this guy is trying to funnel through is 'reapeal of the AMT'. Uh, yeah, I don't think that'll go over very well (as there's no 'minimum' about it and it's really not an alternative, either..). Then there's the repeal of all the bio-fuel rebates/credits, all of the energy-efficiency incentive for home owners, etc., etc. and the list goes on, pretty much hitting every special interest group out there. That senator is simply pissing in the wind and hoping it doesn't change direction.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank poptart for this useful post:
  #13  
Old 19.11.2012, 15:33
UncleTell's Avatar
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Deutschschweiz
Posts: 69
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 63 Times in 24 Posts
UncleTell has no particular reputation at present
Re: US citizens in CH, prepare for big tax burden!

Quote:
View Post
That senator is simply pissing in the wind and hoping it doesn't change direction.
I wonder if he is already pissing in the wrong direction and doesn't realize it!
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank UncleTell for this useful post:
  #14  
Old 19.11.2012, 15:35
JBZ86's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Zurich and various mountains
Posts: 3,713
Groaned at 521 Times in 338 Posts
Thanked 4,258 Times in 1,944 Posts
JBZ86 has a reputation beyond reputeJBZ86 has a reputation beyond reputeJBZ86 has a reputation beyond reputeJBZ86 has a reputation beyond reputeJBZ86 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: US citizens in CH, prepare for big tax burden!

Quote:
View Post
For all those interested, go here

US tax calculator

and enter your Swiss taxable income plus:
your Swiss AHV contribution
your 2nd Pillar contributions AND your employer's
any 3rd Pillar contributions AND their interests!

OH! don't forget to convert CHF to USD !
Or just add line 8 of the Lohnausweis to your employers contribution to P2. You dont need to add any 3rd pillar contributions as income, just know that they are not allowed as credits and only to serve to reduce your foreign tax credit as a US tax payer, so in most cases a pointless investment for the blue book holder. Not to mention that a lot of them invest in PFICs, again a US persons worse nightmare in most cases.

Those claiming FEIE and housing, assuming you are preparing yourselves, be sure to set the right housing limitation to make most of maximum housing credit based on where you reside and increasing the denominator for foreign tax reduction by the increased income from the employer P2 contribution amount so you can maximise FTC allowable.
__________________
Small minds are concerned with the extraordinary, great minds with the ordinary, Blaise Pascal
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank JBZ86 for this useful post:
  #15  
Old 19.11.2012, 15:49
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Kt Zrh
Posts: 5,929
Groaned at 34 Times in 33 Posts
Thanked 9,468 Times in 3,983 Posts
edot has a reputation beyond reputeedot has a reputation beyond reputeedot has a reputation beyond reputeedot has a reputation beyond reputeedot has a reputation beyond reputeedot has a reputation beyond repute
Re: US citizens in CH, prepare for big tax burden!

American Citizens Abroad just announced the publication of this

http://www.taxpayeradvocate.irs.gov/...ss-full-report

it's a report to congress by the IRS taxpayer advocate. Whether COngress will pay attention is another issue. Haven't read it yet, but it does contain some items pertinent to US citizens abroad.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank edot for this useful post:
  #16  
Old 19.11.2012, 15:59
UncleTell's Avatar
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Deutschschweiz
Posts: 69
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 63 Times in 24 Posts
UncleTell has no particular reputation at present
Re: US citizens in CH, prepare for big tax burden!

Quote:
View Post
Or just add line 8 of the Lohnausweis to your employers contribution to P2. You dont need to add any 3rd pillar contributions as income, just know that they are not allowed as credits and only to serve to reduce your foreign tax credit as a US tax payer......
You are right, but you still have to add the interest that your 3A Pillar earned during the tax year. This might not be just peanuts depending on how old you are and if you've been allways making the maximum contribution.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 19.11.2012, 16:22
3Wishes's Avatar
Moderately Amused
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Bern area
Posts: 9,648
Groaned at 63 Times in 60 Posts
Thanked 15,239 Times in 7,001 Posts
3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute
Re: US citizens in CH, prepare for big tax burden!

Quote:
View Post
American Citizens Abroad just announced the publication of this

http://www.taxpayeradvocate.irs.gov/...ss-full-report

it's a report to congress by the IRS taxpayer advocate. Whether COngress will pay attention is another issue. Haven't read it yet, but it does contain some items pertinent to US citizens abroad.
154 pages. Well, at least I know how to cure my insomnia.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank 3Wishes for this useful post:
  #18  
Old 19.11.2012, 16:33
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Kt Zrh
Posts: 5,929
Groaned at 34 Times in 33 Posts
Thanked 9,468 Times in 3,983 Posts
edot has a reputation beyond reputeedot has a reputation beyond reputeedot has a reputation beyond reputeedot has a reputation beyond reputeedot has a reputation beyond reputeedot has a reputation beyond repute
Re: US citizens in CH, prepare for big tax burden!

Quote:
View Post
154 pages. Well, at least I know how to cure my insomnia.
Totally. Brevity not a strong suite.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 19.11.2012, 16:45
Medea Fleecestealer's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 20,634
Groaned at 355 Times in 270 Posts
Thanked 15,094 Times in 8,660 Posts
Medea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond repute
Re: US citizens in CH, prepare for big tax burden!

Quote:
View Post
Are you joking?

I’m married, have 2 kids and my wife does not work. My Swiss taxes, Kanton and Bund combined are 8K CHF and I don't live in Zug! Due to the fact that the IRS FORCES me to add my AHV contribution, my Pensionskasse contribution AND the contibution that my employer puts into my Pensionskasse and the 6K CHF I pay into my 3A Konto which is not deductable, I end up with a fairly high gross income as compared to that which the Swiss tax me on. The US does not recognise the VAT we pay here in Switzerland. If they repeal the FEIE my US tax would be roughly 20K USD which means after the tax credit I would have to surrender 12K USD in taxes to the IRS.
That will be the day I finally decide to renounce!
Don't wait that long!
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Medea Fleecestealer for this useful post:
  #20  
Old 19.11.2012, 17:11
UncleTell's Avatar
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Deutschschweiz
Posts: 69
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 63 Times in 24 Posts
UncleTell has no particular reputation at present
Re: US citizens in CH, prepare for big tax burden!

Quote:
View Post
Don't wait that long!
Like my avatar depicts, I'm a bit torn between 2 govt's. I hope I won't be forced to make a decision in the near future.
Die Hoffnung stirbt zuletzt
Reply With Quote
Reply




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Americans in Switzerland Working Group report on US citizens in CH town hall meetings zuridri Swiss politics/news 3 30.09.2012 21:59
Tax Information for US Citizens ( and Resident Aliens abroad ) 2011 KeinFranzösisch Finance/banking/taxation 18 13.01.2012 14:04
New additional tax form for US citizens abroad MrMert Finance/banking/taxation 2 18.07.2011 18:45
US Citizens: Please read -US Foreign Account Tax Compliance Act MrMert Finance/banking/taxation 13 12.11.2009 00:52


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 23:14.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0