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-   -   UK Tax return and Swiss Tax Return (https://www.englishforum.ch/finance-banking-taxation/164116-uk-tax-return-swiss-tax-return.html)

edfollett 10.12.2012 12:11

UK Tax return and Swiss Tax Return
 
Hi all,

Please forgive my ignorance in advance!

I have been working in Switzerland now for over 4 months! Great so far!

In the UK I own a property and have rented it out! I have informed the UK Tax office and have been told that I wont have to file any tax return until 2012/2013 return times.

The thing I have a question about is do I have to let the Swiss government know about this? I;m not trying to dodge paying anything but my probably stupid train of thought was that this income for the flat in the UK is being paid in the UK and I would be taxed there accordingly and that Switzerland wouldn't have to know!

Any advice would be greatly appreciated

Thanks

Ed

dannyt986 10.12.2012 12:25

Re: UK Tax return and Swiss Tax Return
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by edfollett (Post 1740717)
Hi all,

Please forgive my ignorance in advance!

I have been working in Switzerland now for over 4 months! Great so far!

In the UK I own a property and have rented it out! I have informed the UK Tax office and have been told that I wont have to file any tax return until 2012/2013 return times.

The thing I have a question about is do I have to let the Swiss government know about this? I;m not trying to dodge paying anything but my probably stupid train of thought was that this income for the flat in the UK is being paid in the UK and I would be taxed there accordingly and that Switzerland wouldn't have to know!

Any advice would be greatly appreciated

Thanks

Ed

Quite a few threads on this topic already using the magic search function.

We assume you are on a B permit and paying quellensteuer. If you earn over 120k you will have to fill out a Swiss tax return in any event and declare the property, mortgages and related income and expense, however the income and assets are not taxed, but may slightly increase your tax rate. You dont need to do anything for now.

If you dont earn over 120k it seems to depend on the canton if they want you to do a return because of the property. Safest route would be to contact them and ask.

Stew 10.12.2012 12:25

Re: UK Tax return and Swiss Tax Return
 
Yes you have to declare all income no matter where it's from (assuming you are earning over CHF120K a year and having to submit a return).

http://www.englishforum.ch/finance-b...-house-uk.html

The swiss won't tax the income from the rental directly but it will have the effect of raising the tax band for your Swiss income and hence the amount of tax you pay on Swiss income will increase (depending on how much income you have from the UK).

You can deduct related expenses (management fees, VAT, maintenance, mortgage interest) on your Swiss return.

As it stands, I don't pay any UK tax on my UK rental income since it falls beneath the UK personal allowance (after deducting the same expenses as above).

Medea Fleecestealer 10.12.2012 13:52

Re: UK Tax return and Swiss Tax Return
 
What about if you have a property, but it isn't rented out? We've just inherited my other half's parents' house in the UK, but it's standing empty at the moment while we decide whether to sell it or not. So no income, but expenses like council tax and electricity/gas bills. I assume I need to declare it to the Swiss tax authorities, but how is it done? Is there a separate part of the form that I need or does it just go down as part of our assets in the wealth column? And how do I convert the valuation into CHF for tax purposes?

Carlos R 10.12.2012 14:26

Re: UK Tax return and Swiss Tax Return
 
You still own the property. Even if you get no revenue, its value counts towards your wealth.

We provide a profit and loss sheet for our UK house, but this is managed by an agent who provide us with the summary we need.

dannyt986 10.12.2012 14:36

Re: UK Tax return and Swiss Tax Return
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Medea Fleecestealer (Post 1740878)
What about if you have a property, but it isn't rented out? We've just inherited my other half's parents' house in the UK, but it's standing empty at the moment while we decide whether to sell it or not. So no income, but expenses like council tax and electricity/gas bills. I assume I need to declare it to the Swiss tax authorities, but how is it done? Is there a separate part of the form that I need or does it just go down as part of our assets in the wealth column? And how do I convert the valuation into CHF for tax purposes?

If the estate has been settled it's yours and you declare it just like any other property.

Strictly speaking you might even find you are assessed a theoretical rental income since the house is at your disposal (eg like a holiday home).

The exhange rates to use (year end and average) are published by the federal authorities eg year in January.

Note the value you declare is the tax value, not the market value. For a foreign property you can probably get away with estimating this: go for 60% of the probate value say.

Carlos R 10.12.2012 14:39

Re: UK Tax return and Swiss Tax Return
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by dannyt986 (Post 1740956)
Strictly speaking you might even find you are assessed a theoretical rental income since the house is at your disposal (eg like a holiday home).

I don't think this applies for properties abroad. I think this is just for CH property.

They (BS) do, however, ask for the value of the property, every 5 years if I recall. This was not the letting value but the property value. We got ours from our letting agent who are also an estate agent.

fatmanfilms 10.12.2012 14:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by dannyt986 (Post 1740956)
If the estate has been settled it's yours and you declare it just like any other property.

Strictly speaking you might even find you are assessed a theoretical rental income since the house is at your disposal (eg like a holiday home).

The exhange rates to use (year end and average) are published by the federal authorities eg year in January.

Note the value you declare is the tax value, not the market value. For a foreign property you can probably get away with estimating this: go for 60% of the probate value say.

Probate value is already a low valuation. as its the cash value it could sell for that day, rather than after 3 months of marketing .

dannyt986 10.12.2012 14:47

Re: UK Tax return and Swiss Tax Return
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Carlos R (Post 1740961)
I don't think this applies for properties abroad. I think this is just for CH property.

They (BS) do, however, ask for the value of the property, every 5 years if I recall. This was not the letting value but the property value. We got ours from our letting agent who are also an estate agent.

It applies to any property that you own and use yourself, irrespective of location. So for example an holiday home that is let in summer but used from Nov to Apr by the owner would be assessed for "eigenmietwert" for 50% of the year.

The OP can probably claim it is never used in the circumstances.

dannyt986 10.12.2012 14:50

Re: UK Tax return and Swiss Tax Return
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by fatmanfilms (Post 1740977)
Probate value is already a low valuation. as its the cash value it could sell for that day, rather than after 3 months of marketing .

In my experience, even for multiple overseas properties, the authorities are not too excited about the fine details, as it has so little incidence on your tax bill. If the OP is feeling whiter than white he could stick to the probate value.

Medea Fleecestealer 10.12.2012 15:45

Re: UK Tax return and Swiss Tax Return
 
Well, we have used it for a few weeks this year, slightly longer than planned as OH ended up in hospital on the last trip, but it's usually 3 to 4 weeks max. This time around was about 6 weeks.

I don't think the valuation has changed much since it was done for the probate, UK house prices being what they are. I'll just stick with that and wait to see if they argue the point.

Dannyt986, where can I find the exchange rates when they come out? What website?

dannyt986 10.12.2012 15:52

Re: UK Tax return and Swiss Tax Return
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Medea Fleecestealer (Post 1741047)
Well, we have used it for a few weeks this year, slightly longer than planned as OH ended up in hospital on the last trip, but it's usually 3 to 4 weeks max. This time around was about 6 weeks.

I don't think the valuation has changed much since it was done for the probate, UK house prices being what they are. I'll just stick with that and wait to see if they argue the point.

Dannyt986, where can I find the exchange rates when they come out? What website?

http://www.ictax.admin.ch/2011/de/index.html in German look at "Devisen Banknoten" for year end rates and "Devisen Jahresmittelkursen". Obviously 2012 not yet know.

Medea Fleecestealer 10.12.2012 18:03

Re: UK Tax return and Swiss Tax Return
 
Thanks, dannyt986. I'll have a look once I receive my tax forms.


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